Search Posts
Right, I looked into the difference between Common and Uncommon, and Limited versus no restriction, and also Access and where that overrides other restrictions. I was able to parse just about all of it. The only sticking point was that many options are Limited, but with no clear way to know if you can currently gain access to them or not, and if so, how. And the answer might not exist, or it might be in a non-ACP boon that is... somewhere. It's a shame those aren't easier to find.
Hello all! I finally live somewhere with easily accessible PFS, so I'm learning 2e and getting back into the swing of PFS rules after a long break. As I juggle character concepts and potential builds, I notice that a lot of specific spells, feats, archetypes, and the like are listed as Limited, which means you need to be given access by a boon. Is there a place that lists where such boons can be gained through play? Specifically, I mean boons that are NOT gained through achievement points. For example: I noticed the spell Inner Radiance Torrent is limited, but the only thing I could find after searching for it is talk about a misprint and later errata for it, and nothing about how to actually gain access to it, if indeed you can at all.
If you would be comfortable with a male character talking about his child, girlfriend, or wife, consider how you would feel about a boyfriend or husband. Parents come up in conversation? Old love interest comes up in conversation? Anything related to Calistria comes up in conversation? Family history comes up in conversation? Sexuality is all over common interactions, many of which take place in Pathfinder already. If you don't have a problem with them unless its about a non-binary or non-heterosexual character, take some time to consider why that is.
Hello wonderful people of the PFS forums! So, I am finally resigning myself to the truth. My book full of all Chronicle Sheets, Character Sheets, Boons, and related items has been lost to the nether over of the course of my last two moves. While I was certain to carefully pack it each time, I am unable now to locate it, neither at my current home nor at my previous one. The question I have is this: What do I do about my characters? I thankfully came from a location that kept great records of scenarios (shout out to Bloomington, IN), so I have a strong digital record. However, more than one character had a boon associated with them that isn't scenario related. I have a Samsaran Psychic, a Skinwalker Monk, and an Ifrit (though he no longer requires the boon), and no way to prove my ownership of any of those associated boons. Additionally, some of my characters have a great deal of Chronicle Sheets applied to them, many of which have conditional boons. Am I expected to just cross out all boons that can be crossed out, as I cannot prove that I earned them / haven't used them already? What is the best way for me to proceed now that I am getting into playing and running games again?
A friend of mine put this helpful guide together for just such a build. Give it a look. It really helped me.
The only character I regret making is one I only got to play once because of an errata. It was regrettable because I spent many days excitedly planning a character after discovering an archetype for a class I hardly ever play. Over the course of a week I refined the RP and crunch of the character into just the perfect style for it, down to all the feats I'd take across levels and how I'd react to many situations. I played it the following monday at PFS, and then in the next week the archetype was destroyed in an errata change. So while the class itself was good fun, I regret making it because the disappointment that immediately followed nearly turned me off from PFS.
My take on the Intimidate build was as a Titan Fighter with an Impacting Large Greatsword with Hurtful, Intimidating Prowess, Cornugon Smash, and Vital Strike. Add in the Fiery Glare trait and you can always take 10 with Intimidate. Dazzling display into Shatter Defenses means anyone you hit will be easier to hit next time. Also gives incidental battlefield control as a fighter. The end result was 8d6 + additive + free intimidate, then another attack for an addition 4d6 + additive. And by taking 10 she always got 37. 42 if she used a better potion than just Gravely Tonic. To resist a 37 a level 20 creature would need a wisdom score of 24, a little less depending on its size. A 42 is just that much harder. Sadly this was a PFS character and Hurtful got banned, really hurting her DPR. Oh well, fun while it lasted.
She also saw that they didn't her help to be victorious. She isn't dumb, she just doesn't meddle. She is the perfect arbiter, and treasures that status. Also, I found my bit about Iroran Mummies from Inner Sea Gods I believe.
I'm curious how Pharasma reacts to the Iroran Mummies personally. "Some enlightened members of the faith, particularly monks, are so aware of their own bodily processes that they can sense their approaching death from old age, knowing in advance the day or even the hour they will pass. A few ofthese wise folk employ a method of self-mummification, using a diet of poisonous nuts and teas that prevents their corpses from putrefying after death. These masters oflife and death leave behind their bodies to watch over Irori’s temples, and in some cases these bodies animate as mummies to defend the temple against threads. These dried but perfectly preserved Iroran mummies are extraordinarily rare, and their magical attacks have no effect on Irori’s worshipers, but otherwise they have nearly the same statistics as normal mummies." The mortals lived full lives, died, and passed on through Pharasma's judgement to join Irori in their destined beyond. Occasionally, however, they return to their bodies to guard the faithful and Irori's temples from harm. Technically they are undead, but they aren't using the undead status to avoid the natural process, not exactly. And they don't remain undead once the faithful aren't in danger anymore, returning to Irori's side where Pharasma sent them.
I'm not certain that's how you make PFS rulings.
Incidentally, Skinwalker boons were given out to Tier 1 GMs at Gencon this year. It doesn't seem unreasonable to assume they would be given out at large conventions in the future, either as GM boons of some tier or some other way. If you're looking to trade for one, its possible, but there aren't nearly as many in circulation.
So I take one level in Unchained Monk, and then the rest in the Paladin archetype Iroran Paladin. Are there are any strange interactions between these two?
The more I try at Kineticist Rasputin, the less sense it makes. But I'm amused, so I'll keep at it and post when I'm done.
Thank you for the detailed response. I think the "Closest Spellcasting Progression Class" solution can easily get a little unwieldly, but it also keeps most everything in check without punishing people. Psychic, after all, wouldn't have any lists to pull from if it could only use other full progression psychic classes. So that has my vote of support. Its a smart solution.
I'm still only getting 26 at the lowest. Str - 8 (-2)
That's his stats upon creation. Then you apply middle-age'd to get the stat line of Str - 7
Then +2 to all physical, and +4 to Wis and Cha, then 4 more to Cha for leveling... Str - 9
So 26 point buy accounting for the aging "penalties." What am I doing wrong?
He's also carrying around gear worth about 123,000 gold.
Rynjin, I found Cassock of the Black Monk on archives of nethys. As for Rasputin's point buy, the lowest I can figure is 26 points. Str: 7 (-4)
He has +2 to all physical stats because of his belt of physical perfection, and then he also had +4 to Wis and Cha from his headband. Add to that the 4 stat increases he's gained from leveling (all of which go to Cha), and you should have the stat block listed above.
Huh. Well good for you for playing the long game I suppose. I still don't think adding spells to a class early works, though I suppose someone could use the Summoner list to add Simulacrum at level 5 if they were both arcane and didn't have it already. Edit: And, also, what I think doesn't matter too much unless its my game, hence the desire for a clarification, even though I suspect the final answer will not be something I enjoy.
Wouldn't you be level 16 by the time this came online? That sounds about right for casters starting to hit the point where they just take over the game. What level did you start at? I can't imagine playing from level 1 with 14 strength as an Oracle even, unless I rolled stats and had some weird results.
I'm still not certain you can hit up Occultist either, due to the weird way the generation of their spell list works.
that's 9 points of strength damage all at once. Most wizards I know are created with 7-9 strength I'm actually really curious why you had all of that. Were you an Eldritch Knight of some kind? I suppose your level 12 wizard (can only get up to double your HD, and half of 23 is 11.5) could, indeed, summon a Solar Angel. In PFS that still restricts you to scenarios when you somehow have 12 hours before the mission starts and you can stop and summon, and also can find an ice sculpture of said creature. Am I saying its impossible to break? No, of course not. I wouldn't put it past some players to explain to me how they can break improvised weapon Wizards that only use divination spells. After a certain point in source depth, everything could, in theory, get a little crazy. My point is that to break it you have to really try, and that even then its very impractical for most people most of the time.
Saying is "primarily used by X" is opening yourself up for trouble. I'm, personally, using it to add a little utility to my Psychic and to help flesh out her backstory. Of the Samsaran players I've met, I haven't seen one that's gone out of their way to abuse the race like mentioned above. Could Mystic Past Life use a rewording? Sure. Is it very powerful? Definitely. Is it cool? Extremely.
The desire to generate a Kineticist Rasputin is overwhelming. It probably won't match the flavor quite as well as Psychic or Medium or Occultist, but it would certainly explain his difficulty to kill with poison or damage!
Seriously, at that point you might as well just cast Lesser Simulacrum as its cheaper, only takes an hour, and is going to give you a 9 HD monsters anyhow, just at a loss of magical abilities.
So summoning a creature of equal HD, 9, requires an ice sculpture of the creature and, separately from that, 4,500 gp of powdered rubies. Using Blood Money, that's 9 points of strength damage all at once. Most wizards I know are created with 7-9 strength, so that knocks them out of the running. Anything over 9 HD is probably straight out for most casters because its 10 strength damage minimum, and increases by 1 for ever HD over 10. Similarly, I would inquire, as a GM, how the player knows they are going to be sent on a mission twelve hours before the briefing. Even if you assume Pathfinders are given a very generous 6 hours to meet up with their Venture Captain, that's not enough time to get more than halfway through your summoning. Then you have to invest in either a Restoration, which is rather expensive, or many small Lesser Restorations, which is probably more expensive. That said, some scenarios do take place across multiple days. Players could, I suppose, summon the creature every morning (though it would be night by the time they finished), and then just chill with it each day, but that means lugging around multiple ice sculptures and somehow preserving them. And that doesn't even need to account for preemptive buying of Restorations, lesser or otherwise. All that work just to get a 9 or maybe 10 HD monster on your side. At that point you might as well cheese it up with a combat trained animal, because its going to be just as combat effective while also being cheaper, longer lasting (in general), and less likely to make both fellow players and the GM give you a look of disdain (though that may still happen with combat trained animal use).
Not at all. If anything it points to how much more people would rather spend their feats on other things than on +1 to 2 saves. Dex Fighter: "Hmm...+1 to Fort and Will...or Dex to hit?" Spell Caster: "Hmm...+1 to Fort and Reflex...or +1 to my favorite spell's DC?" Barbarian: "Hmm...+1 to Reflex and Will...or Power Attack?" Paladin: "Hahahahaha I get Charisma to saves! And I took the Fey Foundling trait to make myself even more sustained! Can I just give this level 3 feat to someone else, 'cause I don't need it."
It's not a question of the +1 bonus, it's a question of the resource cost. A half-orc can get a +1 bonus to all reflex, fortitude, and will saves from all sources for the cost of a trait. A human can get a +1 bonus to all reflex, fortitude, and will saves from all sources for the cost of three feats. How many weapons is a human inherently familiar with? 0 How many is an Elf familiar with? 6. Also they get to treat any exotic Elven weapons as a Martial Weapon for the terms of familiarity. How many feats does a human need to do the same thing? 3 (Martial Weapon proficiency + 2 EWP for the Elven weapons). 4 if you also need Simple Weapon Proficiency. Elves get for free with 0 traits what Humans get for 3 / 4 feats. Do you see why you can't hold a race's Race Trait against them when talking about these things? They don't add up properly. So, back to my method. Half-Orcs can do in 1 Trait what Humans can do in 2 Traits and half a Feat.
It's not a question of the +1 bonus, it's a question of the resource cost. A half-orc can get a +1 bonus to all reflex, fortitude, and will saves from all sources for the cost of a trait. A human can get a +1 bonus to all reflex, fortitude, and will saves from all sources for the cost of three feats. So Half-Orcs can do in 1 trait and an alternate race trait what Humans can do in 2 traits and half a feat? Wow, that's a lot less resource intensive than the three feats number that keeps getting quoted.
People keep saying +2 to saves like the trait gives +2. It doesn't. It turns a +1 into a +2. The trait is granting +1 to all saves. Still strong, but significantly less than is being implied. Additionally, Sacred Tattoo is a good trade for many players regardless of the presence of Fate's Favored, so its not like a mediocre alternate racial trait is being empowered overwhelmingly by a trait. Those calling for errata need to keep in mind that house rules can stop abuse on a small scale, but errata make it official for everyone. In my opinion, only broken (in the literal sense, not the OP sense) mechanics or misprintings should be reflected in the errata (with the exception, maybe, of PFS specific changes).
I'm sure its all being read, but its just players talking to players. Is this just a way to take frustration away from the other boards, or an actual place where feedback is actually considered?
True. I may be jumping the gun a little on my, "strict grammatical approach," to things. And I am clearly biased as I'm playing one currently, but the sentence without the aside functions universally, and the aside works to clarify what "type" means. The contention is over whether or not it is excluding all other possibilities or simply clarifying how one discovers what type of spell their spells are. Similar confusions to this led to the first question as phrased by Mark Seifter, "Since this mentions the spells having a type, rather than the spell list, how does one determine what type the spell is?" Edit: Wording was awful, so I tidied it up some.
Ok, to be fair, some sources I'm reading (to confirm what I'm saying) say that commas and parentheses are interchangeable and others saying they can be used to list examples. So, I suppose, RAW, it really can be either. Sooooooo...
I'm using structural logic to explain that arcane and divine are mentioned only as examples and that, structurally, they aren't included as an exclusionary set. Grammatically that sentence sets up only parameter, that spells be of the same type. I am taking it extremely RAW. You are taking it as RAI by saying looking backwards is anachronistic because psychic spells as a category didn't exist back then. It doesn't matter if they did or not, or if the designers knew or didn't know that one day there would be a third category. What matters is what we have. And while yes, they could go back and re-write it, I think the FAQ shows that they don't have enough time to clarify every change and slight change, choosing only the ones that really need attention. For example, look at James' mentioning of the Overrun FAQ that was promised, apparently, 7 years ago and still hasn't arrived. Thus, saying, "They haven't said explicitly that it does work" is reading into their intention as a company, which is outside the rules of PFS as well.
if you don't understand having level 11 characters using level 9 spell is broken... then there isn't really much else to say. Do keep in mind that Simulacrum requires an Ice Sculpture of the target and 500g per HD off the target. Its not really something that can be casually cast in the middle of a dungeon. Also it has a casting time of 12 hours. In PFS thats rarely going to even be feasible, let alone abuseable, and in home games its easily house rule'd. Planar Binding is only gained a level earlier. Maybe not something you'd want, but not nearly as much of a problem.
I would absolutely not say its exclusive to Arcane and Divine. The examples are not included in the core sentence, but strictly separate via the us of parentheses. The core sentence, "The spells must be the same type as the spellcasting class you're adding them to," doesn't discriminate. If they wanted it to be exclusionary, they would need to have used commas, thus including arcane and divine within the actual sentence. They didn't. Grammar dictates that Psychic spells are allowed.
so why not petition the officials and get a clear answer Oh absolutely. My final spell selection will likely be a few cure spells and other helpful Spiritualist spells that aren't on the Psychic list. While an official answer is the best case, a discussion among posters isn't too bad of a worst case. My own personal opinion is that early access feels wrong, archetypes probably aren't intended to give access but seem like they do, and that caster type determines spell type for all spells on their lists, but only when viewed through the lens of it being that class. Also I feel like Occultist should grant access to Psychic spells for Samsaran, but that one is almost as contentious as Mindblade due to the way they gain access to spells themselves.
Table Variance can mean I'm suddenly playing a pre-gen instead of my own character.For that very reason, I generally avoid contentious rules. Usually I do too, but Samsaran has been around for at least a year in PFS, and will be even more common now that it has been dropped from a Tier 1 GenCon boon to a Tier 3 GenCon boon. If I'm curious, then other players will be curious, so why not petition the officials and get a clear answer so someone doesn't accidentally fall on the wrong side of the rules and be forced to bench their character. My original list of spells (findable in the context post) was actually spells that are fairly clearly available without falling into any of the above categories. It was only when a discussion around other options happened, including a helpful post by Mark Seifter, that I decided to try and get an official response here. As an aside, thanks to the 12 others that have already marked my opening post for FAQ consideration.
Part of the reason I bring it here is as a PFS player I don't really have a GM to ask and Table Variance can mean I'm suddenly playing a pre-gen instead of my own character. And no worries Mark, in the middle of a con I think everyone is taking a few penalties for fatigue after running things for so long.
Indeed it was! My friend told you of her great love for Medium, and I explained how pleased I was with base Kineticist. We talked for a while, and then you signed my book before you realized you were very late for something. To clear up any confusion you might have had at the table (or now), I'm transgendered, so when my friend kept saying, "it her book," she meant me. Thanks for sitting and talking with us! Makes it all the more embarrassing that I'd get your name wrong.
I misspelled his name didn't I. Let me go check. Baaaah, dropped a t in his last name and somehow misspelled his first name. That's what I get for trying to post on an empty stomach! Sorry M-a-r-k S-e-i-f-t-e-r! I'd fix it if I could still edit posts that old. And yes, I've only had pleasant interactions with Mark. He saw a friend and I reading Occult Adventures at GenCon and actually sat with us for a while discussing the development of our favorite Occult classes and talking about his vision for them. I have also seen him pretty much everywhere on the forums. I'm not sure how he stays so active here and also gets so much work done. He must surely have some arcane powers, perhaps powered by some other plane full of energy.
Holy cow I called you Mike over here too. My bad Mark! Hungry brain does strange things.
Oooooh...good point, good point. Haven't played a Magus before, so I kind of forgot that about them.
In that same vein you could also pick up Harm. Still a 7th level spell for Witches, but it means you can crit-fish with Harm. Edit: Actually, if you Harm-Strike something, which order does the damage apply in? Does it do weapon then spell, because if so you can't actually kill someone with that unless your weapon alone does it. If its the opposite then Harm can reduce them to 1 and the weapon can push it over. Both are actually really interesting possibilities. It would be the ultimate embarrassment to have a Magus strike you once and leave you at a single HP then leave while claiming victory. Sounds like a good BBEG tactic.
And these questions are all why I bring it here. I've yet to have someone tell me that a Psychic class doesn't qualify, arguing that arcane and divine are examples and the only allowed, but I suppose it *could* be argued.
What about Occulists? They don't even have a true spell list like other casters do, they instead have Implements that grant access to spells.
That said, with the recent toning down of power on things, I have an inkling on how the FAQ will go. I suspect spell lists will determine type, archetypes might not actually change type for the purposes of Samsarans, and adding spells before you should get them will be a hard no. Taking bets on other responses. ; P
|
