Kitty In A Fishbowl's page

Well, i've read on another post similar to mine, that a guy said "Command Undead" the spell is the best, compared to the feat or whatever.

Now as a cleric anyway i could get that spell?

My objective is focusing on Necromancy, about my minions i need to have them around me mostly of the time, but don't really need to buff them like crazy or so; they're there mostly for flavour, with spells and so i could do other things eventually.

Nobody has said nothing about sorcerers: aren't they ok to be necromancers? Why wizards are better?

I don't need to force any rule here to roleplay my PC. At 3rd level no minions? no problem, i'm on a quest to find my slaves, because when i died we raised in two different places, and now i'm on a quest to retrieve them.

Charm living subjects in Hell? I think 70% are not human, and those who are will be surely powerful, probably will have high will as casters, maybe Cha too.
I don't get the point in going Enchantment school; It requires high CHA and feats involved, i've none for that school because i'm going Necromancy.

I think there's no sense on roleplaying them as they are my slaves.
If our ideas on what to do doesn't collide then what the GM will do? Give them a will save or be under my control?
Then i find like limitating their choices, their background: no this idea wont fit what i thought to do.

I agree, this idea is very cool. i will steal i feel ^-^!

1) I don't care to have an horde at 1st level; this makes no sense and it's unbalanced;

2) Why should i take Charm Person to control Undead (i think mind affecting doesn't even work on them)? That's no sense :c!

3) No i don't want to enslave my party; that's abusive and Legal Stupid Paladin-like.

Right now we have only some ideas, and this is how the group should look:

Antipaladin LE Human or Half-Orc

Fighter/Barbarian Unknown Race

Something (a guy who has not decided yet)

Me :3!

Being arcane how can i control my "horde of slaves"? CHA?

I see more my Phaeroh Queen being the master staying back and let her minions do the job.

So both divine or arcane give me the right things to keep my minion around me all the time? (i mean they don't vanish when the spell ends or so).

Sadly i can dispose of Paizo's products only :c.

About divinity we already decided with the GM for Set.

Now i'm stuck on which class i should pick.

Arcane have less option on undead, but more versatility.
Divine have more option and buffs for them.

Am i right?

Dot.

Well, first, thank you all so much ^-^!

@Undead Lord: i find this archetype a loss, one undead minion at the cost of a domain, seems not viable for me.

@Occultist: As said close spell list, and then is a completely new class for me.

Now i forgot to give the intro of the campaign: we're all dead and starting at level 1 in Hell, gaining Outsider Subtype, fire resistance aswell, starting naked (wont be a problem, surely the GM has a plan, but we're starting without gear at all and familiar/animal companion etc.).

Assuming that, going around with an horde of undead minions wont be a problem; nobody cares in hell, and we're proud evil, without need of hiding from no-one.

The idea i have of the PC is: she was a queen, most like an Egyptian Pharaon, who decided the day she knew she was dying that her slaves would be needed in her "un-life", so killed them all and raised them as undead-slaves.
For the race i was planning to get Shabti mostly for the flavour.

I'm not planning to have the bigger horde ever, but, mainly for the flavour, having a nice number of undead-slaves to help me build a city, statues in my honor and whatever --> planning to build a nation on my own (i'm a fool i know ^-^!).

I prefer to have minions that i can carry with me, instead having a tons that simply vanish in time.

Well, just about to start an Evil Campaign, and i've finally decided to go with the Necromancer-pact.

First time ever building one tho, thoughs are very welcome ^-^.

Well for what i read, i should avoid a blaster in this campaign, and focus on something else; this is because i don't wanna abuse Knowledge Arcana to know everytime monsters resistances and so switching my type of damage, i don't care to spend my time at the table like this.

I could go for a necromancer here, or any other thoughs?

Thanks for all the thoughs, i appreciate very much ^-^!

Now, on the fire-route, there's a big issue: staying in hell we will have to deal with demons and devils, who have the best fire resistance ever ^-^.

Now i'm thinking to go for a necromancer, any idea on which class fits better for this role_?

Yes CN_Minus, but the anti-paladin will be LE (Houserule or taken by Way of the Wicked i suppose).

@Phylotus: very nice point *-*!!! It's a good idea i think, i have to adjust it to base my background on.
very nice though, helping a lot!

Very nice idea Master of the Dark Triad, i like it *-*!

Well, first i need to solve my problem (which evil act brings me to hell)before to decide which class/race/build to play.

Yeah, i understand your point, but my group is made about players who knows how to play evil character and surely want to play this campaign without destroying it.

We should work together on backgrounds if this help out "staying alive a little more", no problem about that.

I think almost nobody read my first post :c
We're all evil, but allignment is restricted LE or NE. There will be no CE in the group.

Now about what Derek Dalton is writing: i'm almost prepared to play this way, i've just asked help for ideas but especially i'm trying to figure how much and which evil act have i committed to deserve to go Hell; this is the part more troubling for me, because i want to create a PC with a solid background and nice customization.

I like the idea to go with the Fire-route ^-^!

Thanks for your thoughs.
I want to remind that the character is starting anyway at level 1 despiting who she was.

It would be awesome knowing how i deserve to go to hell ^-^, here i've the most trouble.

I'm starting a new campaign on the evil-side ^-^ (Evil Party).

Some informations:
- Alignment: LE or NE
- 20 PB, 1st level, we're currently dead (we could have been a powerful 20th level mage or whatever in our life, but we did something so evil that we deserved to go to hell, and reborn there as Evil Outsiders [gaining the type and immunity to fire, speak Infernal aswell]
- 2 traits
- We can use all Paizo stuff

Now i'm stuck on what to play (i think we have already an Antipaladin in group), but especially on what could i've done to go to hell? any thoughs?

Thanks again :3!

@Ryzoken: well Persistent seems very nice, but which feat should i swap with? I don't need the Spell Penetration then?

@Kaboogy: Yes i'm the face, but consider that the summoner could almost cover that role, he's CHA based too, so i wont worry too much about.

Swapping Spell Penetration -> Spells with SR
#1 Ear-Piercing Scream, Magic Missile
#2 Scorching Ray, Eventually Blindness/Deafness (depends on which spell i choose here, any thoughs?)
#3 Fireball,
#4 Black Tentacles have none but if eventually swapping with Confusion it has
#5 Baleful Polymorph, Telekinesis

As always, thank you so much ^-^!

@Ryzoken: Very helpful examples, i have to read more about those metamagic feats then!

@CN_Minus: Spell penetration is because almost all monsters have SR at my level, so i need something to bypass it.
I need to read Persistent Spell, metamagic right?
Initially i had dropped those feats because i though i couldn't understand, but now i'm learning how to work with these.

Well, i want to thanks you all, always nice answers ^-^!

@Finlanderboy: Conjuration spells could avoid SR, but many other spells don't, and usually at this level mostly of monsters i will fight will have SR.

Greater spell focus probably worth a try.

@Rashagar: a nice and detailed explanation, which i agree the most you have said; driven by "to not suck in encounters", i have lost the first rule of the game, fun!

Quicken Spell is metamagic, right? I don't use metamagic (because i really can't understand how it works, with slot changing O.O seem hard to learn!).
If with a Rod/Wand i could get the effect without the slot changing is ok to use something like that.

Updated Sheet

Yeah i'm sorry i did a bit of confusion answering ^-^! Thanks for all your help anyway, i'm really learning/understanding many things!

1) You're right, i have decided to stay with the headband and just save money for the future items.

2) I will swap that spell then, getting Mirror Image.

3) We're done with shield :3

4) Nice, following your advice.

5b) [part1]Using the Vest i will be able to use one page to get many spells (because it doesn't consume the item), or i'm just misunderstooding?

[part2]If the adding of a spell known is immediate, potentially i could have a "surprise" spell for when i need, we will call this "the unespected last minute spell" (or misunderstooding again OvO?)

Thanks again for all the help ^-^!

Race is included in my background and it's more about flavour and customizing my character, so i won't change it, despiting Pros and Cons.

1) Heightened Awareness seems a nice spell, but i think i will not need that, if GM wants to act first he will do in every case, so i don't need to boost my initiative like crazy, that's my though, i could be wrong in any case.
What's the use of Silent Image?
Why is Ray of Enfeeblement a waste? (asking because i can't figure why ^-^)

2) I think i should get Glitterdust or See Invisibility, i don't need both since right now never found an invisible creature, and i'm not expecting we will find a bunch of those now.

3) Dispel Magic was the first i considered, but summoner have so i don't need to take it. Anyway he has and hasn't used once.
Communal Resist Energy should be taken only if replacing Resist Energy (trying to have a variety of spells, not all the family of a single spell).

4) Fear and Confusion, two nice spells i haven't consider and i shall do.
Anyway Fear and Dragon's Breath both come in a cone (or linear in the case of DB, that could be considered like Lighting Bolt) like Cone of Cold, so may be ankward too or not?

5) Uhm i could say i'm pretty sure i won't waste a 5th spell slot for a fly-like spell, as said that could be dispelled with tragic consequences (if you fly at high distance), most of creatures can fly at this levels and anyway it seems more useful to me to use those to cover long distance while travelling, i won't fly away letting my party back.

Rewards that GM gives are very various, but i can remember i haven't seen lots of scrolls, so i would say no, he doesn't.

I may ask if summoner has Handle Animal, nice though anyway! ^-^

Just take create pit. The later pit spells do not scale as well. Create pit is great for what you need.

Emo force dome is an immeidate action. A large creature attacks you. Well as an immediate action i put a wall of force up. You can do it any time you are ready even if it not your turn.

Rods of metamagic do not raise the spell slot. Thats why i suggested it.

Aqueos orb, entangles(-4 dex) and gives cover. They cancel each other out. If you have an ally with improved precise they ignore the cover penalty. Also no air means they can not cast verbal spells if they are stuck in it.

EDIT* Keep the awesome headband. If you make a conj save or suck caster your DCs are your weapon. You need line of effect for your spells. Do not be anywhere near where combat is. And if you mis calculate and bad guys get to you invis, dime door away, or emo force dome. Do nto worry about AC. Spells protect you

Take spell focus Conjuration for higher DCs

Ok for Create Pit, i will consider just that spell of "the family".

Then the dome becomes awesome *o*!

Rod aswell, i should take it, but how about the cost?

Acqueos Orb seems nice, more caster-focused maybe, but should work well.

I think that too, using positioning and a few spell i could avoid most of the damage the GM will try to deal to me.

EDIT: yeah black tentacles seems pretty nice!
And i forgot "Thanks very much ^-^"

Any other thoughs? (i will edit the sheet as soon as i can, and propose the build again)

Like everytime, i want to thanks who answered me ^-^! I'm
I will answer in order, avoiding quote to prevent a wall of words :P!

Yeah 44k is all the gold i own, sadly :c!

Well about Fireball i think i would keep this spell, because i find it very handy and flavourful. I will change Lightning Bolt with another spell, and i think i'm good with it.

So it seems you all agree with dropping Spell Focus[Evocation] for, exactly which feat instead?

Replacing the headband i feel it will hurt, my DC are important to me, as the interactions i could get roleplaying (I'm the party face).
I could ask to my cleric to cast some spell that gives chance of missing on me...will that solve the problem?

About my saving throws, i can say they aren't so bad, and usually keeping the distance (placement, taking advantage on my range), i'm often unaffected by many abilities of enemies (that depends on the battlefield tho ^-^).

At 1st, I'd replace Ray of Enfeeblement with Shield.

At 2nd, I'd replace Web with Mirror Image, and maybe Invisibility with Glitterdust.
At 3rd, I'd replace Lightning Bolt with Fly or Haste. You could grab Displacement, instead, but I tend to think Mirror Image is a bit better in most cases.

Shield doesn't convince me because of the duration of the spell; Magic Armour has a great duration and it gives +4 AC too.

Is Web a weak spell for my level? In that case i could swap it for Mirror Image.
Invisibility with Glitterdust could be a nice shot, because anyway the summoner already have Invisibility, and i think he could cast that on me.

Lightning Bolt will be swapped, i just need to think more if with Displacement or something else maybe.

I'm not interested in taking Summon Monsters or so, because the summoner could already (and he does often) summon a lot of different creatures, so i don't need to go that way.

Does Pages of Spell Knowledge let me learn a spell from another source than mine (arcane) or "just" (and i'm not meaning it's a poor option) arcane ones?
Does Mnemonic Vestment works with Pages of Spell K.? If i have understood this item doesn't consume the scroll or so, using it, am i wrong?

Hungry Pit should be useful, but then i will need to swap Create Pit, or better to save both?

So Emergency Force Sphere works without AoO while grabbed? I mean, will i be able to cast it without consequences?
The problem here is that usually we aren't so close between us, so protecting allies is not so easy as it seems (could work in an ambush or if the battlefield is narrow).

Will the Rod of Persistence use an higher slot?

Acqueous Orb seems a nice spell, even if it grants cover at the enemy, so i think would not be easy for my party to hit the engulfed enemy, am i wrong?

black tentacles is meh for players. That is a bad guy ability. You ill get little use out of it. You kinda need ot be higher level then them to get it off. It slows or stops your allies from getting to the bad guys. I would pick emergency force dome instead.

I am not a fan of blast spells unless you build for them. The damage is so meh. You will find baleful polymorph, grease and create pit are much mor epowerful. Removing a bad guy or splitting them is an easy win. So I would avoid spell focus evo, and take conj instead. They also bypass DR. If you gears towards conj spells you could also drop the spell pen feats for other things as well.

I would alo take either lightining bolt or fireball. I find both much less useful. If you go the Conj method aqueous orb is very potent.

Thanks again ^-^

I took Black Tentacles because i like the description of the spell (and figured how could it take place, in my mind).

I thought Fireball and Lightning Bolt were a must for sorcerers, and to be honest i didn't figure the damage being so crappy (even if shotting fireballs on the enemy's face is always very pretty).

The spell you suggested, Emergency Force Sphere, is useful to protect the party, but i believe it doesn't solve the encounter; it just allow to buff if caught in a ambush, but otherwise seems of no help to me (just an idea, i could be wrong).

You should indeed take Haste even if someone else has it. At least over any spell you're the least uncertain about. Redundancy is good.

You also lack Mirror Image (aka The Best Defensive Spell In The Game)...I'd correct that. You lack Shield, too, but that one's easily solved by a Wand, or in a more cost-effective move, a Page of Spell Knowledge.

In terms of Items, there's the aforementioned Page of Spell Knowledge, which can grant you additional spells known if you like, but there's far more important things you need: Defenses.

You need a Cloak of Resistance +4-5, a Belt of Dex and Con +2, and ideally some solid AC items. With a Ring of Protection +1, Amulet of Natural Armor +1, Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier, Dusty Rose Prism Ioun Stone, and the aforementioned Belt, your AC is still only 18, but that's 22 with Mage Armor, and 26 with Shield. That's actually respectable AC, and costs 24k or so total. Well, 41k with the cloak and the page to grab shield. Layer Mirror Image on that and you're actually pretty durable...a good thing in a primary caster.

EDIT: As someone else mentioned, Glitterdust is also wonderful and worth the price of admission.

Well, i would say, from what i have seen, usually the haste spell summoner casts has a nice duration and can last for all the encounter time or close enough.

Are Pages of Spell Knowing worth the price?

A good positioning isn't enough to protect me? (i'm not so confident with casters, but i can claim about 10 years of Roleplaying game, i think i know pretty good how to place myself and how to move away)

AC i think wont help so much in this campaign: my GM bring into encounters monsters with solid attacks, crazy hit bonuses and damages; even the cleric, who has the highest AC of the party (can grow up at 30 or close to [can't remember exactly, but a nice AC anyway]), easily fall apart in front of those.

If you could specify which spells are you changing for those you mention it would be awesome ^-^.

41k means i should step back on the Headband of Alluring Charisma, that means having less Charisma for my spells, DC, and i imagine less impact in the game (encounters and interactions with NPCs), am i wrong?

@Mods: Just seen i could edit, i'm really sorry, won't happen again.

Really, many thanks :3!

You might want to pick up the Fly spell, or some item that lets you fly. (Although you do have Dimension Door, that might do the trick.)

If the summoner has Haste, you're probably OK without it.

A Mnemonic Vestment is STUPIDLY good for sorcerers.

Yeah i think flying isn't always the answer (i have seen, while playing, casters falling to the ground with a dispel magic...), lets say with a good placement before the fight start, you can avoid most of threats, and while catched in a corner, with dimension door you can easily flee away :3!

Ok, nice, i prefer to take different spell, especially because i haven't so many spells i could know as a sorceress.

Mnemonic Vestment, i don't get it; i have no crafting feats, nor items crafted i could use, so i ask you to be more specific on the use of that item please (i mean, if you could explain me would be great, i'm a little noobish on that) ^-^.

Detect Invisibility or Glitterdust would be good 2nd level spells to consider, and at 3rd perhaps Displacement for some extra defense.

Which spell would you change with the ones wrote above?

For starters, what Sorcerer Bloodline did you go with?

Otherwise, besides buying up items, I'd suggest replacing either Fireball or Lightning bolt with something else (Haste/Slow are great options, IMO.) Having one is practically a must, but having both is kind of a waste.

Thanks for your advice.

I didn't take Haste because there's another caster, a summoner, who has that spell...should i take it anyway?

Meow to everyone ^-^! First time on a sorceress and i want to learn :3 (My GM helped out a little on creating Prisanya, but he had not so much time to dedicate me, so i'm asking for advice).
It seems a pretty nice class to play.

Would you change something? Maybe spells?
What to buy with gold? Maybe saving for higher cost items?

Any advice would be great ^-^

On my thoughs you should be able to balance encounters if necessary, that's all.

Characters aren't OP, (they can be unbalanced if you have to deal with a powerplayer, in that case the party will notice that encounters are unbalanced because of this player) remember you're the GM and nothing could be unbalanced if you don't want so.

As others said, i would allow this.