I'm a little concerned that my subscriber order says "Waiting for backordered product(s)", not sure if that's just it being out of the estimate window (in which case that's fine!) or something else...
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Not sure if I just can't find it but looking in the main playtest pdf and the tech class pdf, there's no mention of a void weapon group anywhere except for Expansive Array. Which, might not even matter since it also looks like only drone gets crit specialization? Buuut that also feels odd to me. Turret is much more a "gun" subclass than the more versatile drone. Feel like it should have crit specialization too given every array having a weapon group.
We're making characters for Cosmic Birthday this weekend and so far my biggest concern is the cost of ammo starting off. Legitimately worried about the Mystic having 5 shots in their pocket and the Soldier only being able to afford one clip. Maybe two if they sacrifice some other non-essential gear. Feels rough in the ranged meta game that ammo is actually more expensive than Pathfinder.
I deeply miss Charisma for Witchwarper. It fits, especially with how Paizo has been defining charisma in the 2e systems. It's the attribute connected to enacting your self onto the world. Thaumaturges in Pathfinder wield this to manifest connections that cause weaknesses. The class designed around playing with reality should have at least the option to use Charisma.
What are people most excited to get? I know I know, favorite children and all that. But still. Pick one ;) Definitely Starfinder. I feel like I've waited for this announcement since Pathfinder 2e came out.
I can't wait (to transcribe all the items onto my table again oh Abadar have mercy)!
They will probably make more undead full ancestries. or they should, so you can make a vampire ancestry, with the vampire archetype, so you can be a double vampire. Few things would make me happier than Starfinder getting the support level of a "Lost Omens" style line to accompany rulebooks and really get to expand the setting. Paizo's done a lot to embrace their rules and lore branches in the past couple of years and I'd love to see that attention shared with Starfinder.
I think it's mostly scaling in the budget. Weapons and spells scale separately so there's no inherent balance issue to letting a spellcaster's resource-free attack be a single action strike. Other than proficiency. With full spellcasters, their proficiency budget generally leans into Legendary scaling for their spells and DCs, and then expert for their equipment. Which is scaling that makes sense to me for the mystic, or the witchwarper in which case you'd be directly hurting them by removing access to cantrips. So basically there's a tradeoff, and I don't think cantrip removal alone is enough to say "and now the spellcasters also get master proficiency with guns like a martial."
And if that's the case, for all we know, the arcane spell list might look VERY tech-focused. Honestly I do agree with this. I do think Technomancer has enough cool theming to want to shift budget away from spell slots and into the digital and tech-bending spheres. Focus spells account for some of that, but psychic is a great example of being able to trade out a bit of the more general tradition-based budget for tighter focus. It works. I also think there's some merit to the idea up-thread a bit of them favoring guns over cantrips. That's a neat idea to lean into, where they use equipment instead of magic as their filler and save their spells for the bigger moments/needs.
The biggest thing I try to keep in mind is that we don't know what the spell lists for Starfinder are going to look like. Yes, the traditions as published in Pathfinder seem like an odd fit. If the technomancer becomes the "arcane" spellcaster of Starfinder and you allow your players to use Pathfinder spells, you're going to have a lot of spells that aren't thematic. But we don't know what an 'arcane Starfinder spell' looks like yet. Same for the other traditions really. We know we aren't going to see as much page space given to the classic pathfinder spells being reprinted, because those already exist. Which means that, from the few examples we've heard, the spells are getting a very futuristice/space/sci-fi redressing. And if that's the case, for all we know, the arcane spell list might look VERY tech-focused.
I meant it more as the mechanic should be more than just a repaint of the inventor. In the same way the soldier isn't being a repaint of the fighter and the operative isn't one of the rogue. We absolutely SHOULD have a mechanic, I hard agree on that. It just needs its own space and structure.
I hate to bring this up because I know not everyone wants to hear it but... everything you've brought up is exactly what Pathfinder's Inventor does. It has a feat line for gadgets, your random tech bobbins to pull out as quick consumables for you and your allies. It has your bespoke invention in the form of a weapon (gun), companion (motorcycle/drone), or armor, with unique traits others can't replicate. And it has limited versions of its personal buffs to hand out to the team via feats to share offensive boost or its overdrive feature. Which is to say, you've hit the nail on what makes this sort of character fun! And I think one of the reasons we aren't immediately seeing a mechanic in SF2e is that, cross-compatibility aside, SF2e is working hard to not make their classes just a space fantasy redress of Pathfinder classes. Which means a mechanic needs a more unique space from the inventor.
For what it's worth off the field test, the starfinder weapons are currently scaling exactly like pathfinder 2e ones do. They get tracking +1 instead of a rune, and then they get an extra damage die the same level as striking rune. I think for now we can safely extrapolate that they intend to keep the scaling the same given their stated goals.
I think what we're gonna see if the classes we get being more defined. If the soldier is going from your one-size-fits-all space fighter to a burly, crowd control space marine concept, then I think we'll see similar treatments for Mystic, Operative, and even Technomancer. Mystic was made to fit a LOT of spellcasting themes that can be covered by the other game's classes. Given the emphasis on bespoke design for Starfinder, that means the Mystic is going to become more uniquely what the team (and community feedback I'm sure) feel a mystic IS. The same is probably going to happen to the Operative now that it doesn't have to be the one size fits all skill character. It's no longer the rogue, the ranger, the gunslinger, the swashbuckler all rolled into one. Why make the operative cover all those areas when the Ranger is there for your wilderness explorer. I think they're gonna be their own unique space.
I hope it's not Triaxus. I adore ryphorians and dragonkin and don't want them relegated away to homeless wanderers.
I kind of agree. There's not a lot of design space Mechanic has that the PF2e inventor doesn't fill and it's clear they're keeping that in mind with their design approach. I also don't see them launching our space fantasy adventure with only one spellcaster (mystic) so I do think we'll see a technomancer. Operative has also been mentioned in interviews, so the elimination process does seem to point to mechanic not making it to core. Maybe Inventor can fulfill the power armor/weapon/drone fantasy and the AI assist could slide into make the Operative more unique from Rogue?
I have the opportunity to use some of the field test materials in my current PF2e campaign and shake things up with those elements over the next two years while waiting for SF2e to come out. Once Starfinder is in my hands again though I'll be hard pressed to give it up. That said, I fully expect to allow PF2e classes and ancestries to be used and mixed into Starfinder. You want to play a Skittermander Tome Thaumaturge in space? Cool, the tome is a datapad you use to scroll through various supernatural and conspiracy sites that give you your secret knowledge to help strike at unexpected weaknesses and you have SO MANY hands for all your esoteric baubles. Human Champion of Iomedae crusading among the Knights of Golarion? Grab a Laser Rifle, and your divine ally grants you probably weapon fusions to empower the rifle with. Combine these with the Sprite Mystic from the Candabris Nebula whose sippy cup overflows with the lifegiving energy of the First World manifesting among the stars out there. Round it out with a Pahtra Operative and you've got this mix of PF2e ancestries and classes alongside SF2e ancestries and classes that all gel together into the vibes of Starfinder's setting. For me, the compatibility is enabling broad new expansion, not anchoring us to Pathfinder and I'm excited to see what players come up with.
Wait, we're losing a planet?
Ryphorians are my forever love and I can only hope they don’t take too long to make it across.
I definitely agree we shouldn't be using the mixing of PF2e and SF2e for default design assumptions! It's why I mostly tried to frame around PF2e as examples for how things could develop in SF2e. Unfortunately we only have this single snapshot of SF2e right now so I will be pulling my references from the larger pool that uses the chassis for the time being. That said, I also agree with both Ivo and Skabb that a theoretical fighter or gunslinger in 2e should be able to use these weapons with the same skill as their usual choices. A fighter hits good with a weapon group they specialize in and there seems to be design intent for that to remain their space for use even in SF2e. That means that the soldier's specialization isn't the rotolaser or guns themselves, but the AoE alt fire options. So yeah, a way to push that ahead for them and anchor it as their niche feels better. A specific class feature vs the universal lever of class DC.
I've been thinking about this today and I'm ultimately unsure how I feel about it. I see the value, it decouples the big heavy weapons from dex! You want to be a strong, tanky Soldier you can have that strength option for your doshko and still bring a big gun to bear with automatic fire or explosions. We also see this sort of design in Pathfinder 2e often, where a class that doesn't have their 'attack' attribute as their key attribute often have ways to make up the difference that they lose in accuracy. That said, while I think it's very cool to give soldiers a way to effectively scale up these weapons while focusing on their key attribute, I'm not sure the class DC fits for it. For one, the progression ends up entirely separated from the weapon, something you can see in the field test. At level 5, a soldier gets to be a better shot with their gun as their proficiency improves to expert. However, this accuracy boost ends up having no effect on their core focus of automatic fire and AoE effects, as their class dc then lags behind at trained. Obviously, we don't know where the class DC bump comes in, but if we look across the various Pathfinder 2e martials we find that it's usually around level 9. That's four levels between you getting better at your gun, and then getting better at what you want to do with your gun. There's also weird knock-on effects, such as how spellcasters often have spell attack and spell dc, but no class DC and thus can't interact with these functions. Or how down the line you may end up with something like the Pathfinder 2e kineticist who doesn't have proficiency in the weapon, but has high scaling class DC and thus is very good at the alternate fires of these guns they don't know how to use. I feel like the cleanest solution is to decouple these effects from Class DC in general, and maybe make them interact with weapon proficiency more directly. An attack roll against the Reflex DC of creatures in the area for example, and then give the Soldier a class feature to more directly use their constitution to boost these effects and push this as their niche.
Oh I am very here for this read!
Hi Waters, hope you're doing well. Let me know what you think of this. :)
@Kyron I ABSOLUTELY DID HERE'S THE LINK That's what I get for handling like 6 posts more or less simultaneously in different places: Solarian 2e Homebrew @WatersLethe I'm familiar with the project. Most of those first drafts -are- credited to KitKate afterall.
Hi everyone! I'm taking a crack at homebrew/conversion with my own take on a class I always adored from Starfinder, the Solarian! For anyone here who isn't familiar with Starfinder, the Solarian is a cosmic monk who can wield weapons and armor manifested out of pure light or darkness. They’re a martial class with a variety of powers inspired by gravity, light, heat, and energy, and I’ve done my best to capture the feel of them in Pathfinder’s rules.
The Solarian has a few unique abilities that help it to stand out from other martial characters. The standout feature they bring with them is their Solar Manifestation, which lets them wield a weapon, shield, or armor made out of pure energy. The solarian chooses the shape and some of the effects of this equipment, and always has it at hand. This manifestation grows stronger as they level, and has several feat options to further improve it. The other core feature of the Solarian is their Stellar Mode, which asks them to choose to align themselves with either graviton energies or photon energies, allowing them to draw on unique abilities depending on which mode they are in. Unlike in Starfinder, I moved away from multiple levels of this mode and instead have a simple free choice of which mode you’re in at the start of your turn. With the nature of feats, it felt punishing to expect players to maintain a balance of graviton and photon options. Instead most abilities require you to be in one of these two forms to be used and the balance is represented through changing between modes for the best tool at any moment.
As a martial character who emphasized focus spells, I looked to both Monk and Champion for how to develop this class. As of right now, they don’t reach legendary in any of their proficiencies, though they do hit master with their weapons, armor, will and fortitude saves. This is currently, hopefully, offset by the boost to skills from sidereal influence, the flashing strikes class feature, and some baked in bonuses to stellar mode and manifestations.
I worked hard to pull every stellar revelation and class feature from Starfinder’s Core Rulebook and give it a home in this first pass. Some of these are based on or spun off existing feats and focus spells. The manifestation feat lines looked to champion divine spirits and the bastion, sentinel, and arcane archer archetypes for ideas on how to improve.
Focus Spells, or Revelation Spells felt like an immediate solution to how a Solarian would work in their stellar and zenith revelations. In practice, I found myself surprised just how many revelations didn’t need to be a Focus Spell. That said, I still feel Revelation Spells are a key part of the Solarian, such that right now they are a martial who has access to the 3 focus point recovery feat at level 18. TLDR: This is my first attempt at a homebrew class, a conversion of the Solarian class from Starfinder. I’d love any balance feedback you have, I know there’s a few places I am personally unsure of still.
I know I still have a duplicate of the special edition APG that's waiting to be resolved in my order as well. So that bug hasn't entirely been cleared up either.
Hi, My order has generated with an extra copy of the APG's special edition. Presumably from the sidecarting before the products became a subscription option. If you could please remove one of the special edition Advanced Player's Guides from the order, so that it's only the normal edition and special edition from my subscriptions, that would be appreciated. Thanks! |