First, if the warpriest uses any magic outside of combat to assist, it is hugely limited by the fact that he does not have very much to begin with.
Second, if the warpriest wants access to many of the feat progression chains he needs int of 13, which undermines every build I have seen on these boards. So effectively, he can't cast all day or well (like a full cleric or wizard)... he can't hit as hard, as often or as effectively as a fighter/barbarian etc.... he is gimped by the fact that he has to spread out his points across ALL of the stats, with arguably, DEX as his throwaway 10 stat.
My dwarven warpriest after the Dec 9th changes,
Str - 14
Upon first seeing this class I instantly imagined I would play a dwarven warpriest whose clan worships a slave who led them to freedom using his shackles as a weapon (Dwarven Dorn Dergar, Chain Flail). After the addition of fervor I changed his points around to make him more viable and am still punished for my RP choice. (Ideally I would have been fine with taking a 14 Con and a 14 Cha) This means that I wont be doing anything well, but I might be able to keep up for the first few levels, at least until the feats and greater attribute concentration of the other classes overtakes me and when that Reflex save causes me to be burned alive by dragon fire.....
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Tels, you would be able to wield both as sacred weapons but you wouldnt be able to enchant both, only the one via the divine ability. This means the second one would need to be magically created as such, but still an interesting and fun combo.
Robert Little wrote:
The change will make the class more powerful yes, but not overpowered. It will stay in line with other class mechanics like Alizor posted above.
That said, the class is cripplingly MAD. Think about it when using a 20 pt buy and a non-human character. My playtest involved a dwarf cleric who i built with Int 13 to access Combat Expertise, one of the key pre-requisite feats for many of the higher fighter feats. I sacrificed my Cha because I recognized that something had to go. After the changes with Fervor I found I have no ability to utilize channel or fervor with any great ability, and that leaves my entire class gutted after the changes.
Str - Highly important.
What are you left with? Being spread too thin, like classes like the Ninja or Monk where you have to have a little investment in everything and are not especially good at anything. Classes like the Barbarian which can pump up their main stats (Str and Con) can easily outpace your character and routinely do. No game I have run has had any character come close to the Barbarians in terms of damage potential... I'm not suggesting that we need to, but it drives people away from choosing a class they know will be crippled by the stat arrangement, and this can be easily mitigated by consolidating some stat arrangements.
Joyd, you are correct, my mistake... yeah it is derived from channel. Kolokotroni I agree, and would rather see the main casting stat change to work off Charisma and have channel, casting and fervor all based in that oft neglected stat, but either way as long as they change the abilities to map onto a single stat I would be happy.
Everyone who agrees that the class is spread too thin on attributes (see monk, ninja etc for similar problems and reasons why they see little play) please post in this thread to let the devs know that we would prefer to see Fervor work off of Wisdom instead of Charisma. Since the Warpriet's prime casting stat is Wisdom there is no reason that this should be tied to Charisma. The parent classes do not reflect this, in fact, it seems to be a tie in from some sort of Paladin change, and this does not reflect the stated flavor of this class, nor does it make this class something people will want to play. THIS IS A STICKING POINT! CHANGE FERVOR TO WISDOM!!!!
I think we should all post our agreement that the class is spread too thin on attributes and is quite MAD, so fervor should be changed to being focused on Wisdom. Everyone who agrees please post something to say so and we will show how much we agree before this playtest closes and they make their final decisions regarding the class.
I agree with most posters on here and I hope the devs listen. Fervor tied to CHA is just a poor design, especially considering WIS is the prime spell casting stat.
Hopefully something else will add some sort of out of combat utility skills... Like a skill boost usable 1/2 times your War Priest lvl per day as a divine blessing (limited to class skills and only offering a +2 bonus or something could help keep this controlled, also this could come at a later level than first to avoid too strong skill boost at low lvl)
I don't believe the BAB progression to be a problem as long as our sacred weapon BAB can be used to access feats (which are only usuavle while wielding that sacred weapon). We should also have a stipulation that we can access feats listed as fighter only when we qualify so that RAW doesn't have to address this indefinitely.
I really hope that channel energy stays in, even though this isn't a huge bonus it is thematically in line and I think the class would be worse for wear without it.
Had we more time I would also suggest that blessings have 3 (lvl 1, lvl 10, lvl 20) powers and include some sub domains for more options. (Balancing domains with sacred weapons of those Gods should also be a priority)
The lvl 20 Capstone class ability seems redundant when considering sacred weapon BAB progression, so maybe we could come up with something cooler like the other class capstones?
I have found that with fervor working off Cha you end up having your points spread way to thin, especially if you want to qualify for many of the combat feats that require Combat Expertise as a pre-requisite... meaning you also need an Int of 13. That mixed with the needs for STR and CON, WIS and DEX to be somewhat useful... you end up having no true 'dump stat' and being forced into a 20 pt spread that leaves you weaker than either of your parent classes that do not have so much going on. I would ideally like to see some changes such as:
1. Combat expertise as a free bonus feat built into the class, thus allowing Warpriests access to many of the fighter feats without having to sink in pts into INT which is really a waste considering the 2 skill pts you have to work with. Either create more of an incentive to bury pts into this stat (such as higher base skill pts), give access to this feat or change fervor to make this a much easier tradeoff.
2. Fervor working off CHA means you end up being a mix of Paladin/Cleric/Fighter... and doesn't seem in keeping with the flavor this class was working with. Changing this to include Fervor off of WIS would mean that more ppl would value that stat and place more than the bare minimum in WIS, which should remain a primary stat choice... since it is what is used in casting. CHANGE FERVOR FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.
I have a question hopefully someone can answer!?
Q: I have created a dwarven Warpriest whose patron freed his people from slavery by turning his ball and chain shackles into a weapon. (The dwarven chain flail is born!) Thus his sacred weapon is the dwarven chain flail which can function at a range of 15 feet or close in, depending on the allotment of chain provided. Would this count as a ranged weapon or just a weapon with reach? I ask because I was hoping to combine this with the AIR DOMAIN in order to add 5 feet to the range of my flail... thus effectively threatening a greater region... If it is counted as ranged than it will not provoke AoO in those squares and simply allow me to have a great attack range when needed... if it counts as reach than the AIR DOMAIN would be wasted on this weapon choice for what I wanted to have....