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10 posts. Organized Play character for Magda Luckbringer.


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Grand Lodge

Our GM recently deployed several swarms against our ill-prepared 3rd level party. Only one PC (mine) had bothered to acquire anti-swarm weapons. Fortunately my PC had several extra flasks of Alchemist Fire and distributed them as needed. So we were fine. Other PCs took note and now carry anti-swarm weapons.

Grand Lodge

Is that consistent with the bolded part? If it strikes an Incorporeal Foe, what's the damage type?

Instant Weapon wrote:
You create a melee weapon sized appropriately for you from opaque force. You are considered proficient with this weapon, which acts in all ways as a masterwork weapon typical of its type. The instant weapon has hardness 20 and the same number of hit points as a typical weapon of its type. As a force effect, it can strike and damage incorporeal creatures. If the instant weapon leaves your hand at any time, the spell ends at the beginning of your next turn.

Grand Lodge

Umm, you were just turned into Vampires. You're no longer the same PCs. That's a TPK. You're all dead. Time to create new characters.

Grand Lodge

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Description of Cleric wrote:
While the vast majority of clerics revere a specific deity, a small number dedicate themselves to a divine concept worthy of devotion—such as battle, death, justice, or knowledge—free of a deific abstraction. (Work with your GM if you prefer this path to selecting a specific deity.)

Tell your players that deities are not a thing in your campaign. This allows the flavor you want (no gods!!!) with no mechanical changes to character building.

Grand Lodge

@firebug. Right! It seems like a GM could interpret variant Earth channel as affecting either the target or the actual ground squares. Our gm chose to treat it like a mini Stone call, with an actual visible effect on the ground that fades after one minute. Another gm could reasonably interpret it as only affecting the living target and only after they fail a save. Both might be tactically useful, but in different ways.

Is anyone aware of an official ruling on this? Or even guidance towards which interpretation is more RAW or RAI? It's my understanding that variant channeling did not get much play testing.

Finally, I'd like to make a general comment on the various clerics I've seen in game. I've seen many clerics built and played in a way that's drastically less effective. This is the most combat effective cleric I've ever seen.

Forevermore, when I see someone trying to optimize a battle cleric using, say, guided hand, or building a healbot & trying to maximize healing ability, or trying to build a melee cleric without using reach, I'll have to suppress an impulse to inwardly groan. I know it's rude and inappropriate to say,"you're doing it wrong", but I'll forever after have a hard time not thinking it.

Grand Lodge

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Great comments! Here's a follow up. I got a look at the character sheet and reviewed the action with other players and GM. Here's more info:

* Character is point buy neutral human Cleric of Fandarra. Extra credit to Firebug, who figured out Fandarra. Game was not PFS but PC was built PFS legal. Only Traits and Variant Channeling are outside Core Rules. The 5th level party has no arcane full caster, thus no Fireballs.

STR 16+2 DEX 14 CON 12 INT10 WIS 14 CHA 12

Feats: Combat Reflexes (H), Versatile Channel (1st), Power Attack (3rd), Extra Channel (5th).

Traits: Fate's Favored & Temple Guard
Variant Channel is an archetype of Cleric

Details for anyone interested:

One domain was Growth but neither domain was used at all in that fight. The PC instead enlarged pre-combat with a Potion of Enlarge Person. I was wrong about that in my 1st description because that PC did often do a 1 round swift action enlarge. Just not in that fight.

Negative Variant Channeling (Earth ): wrote:
Earth: Heal—Creatures gain a DR 1/adamantine until the end of your next turn. This DR improves by 1 at 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter. This does not allow recipients to overcome DR/adamantine with their own attacks. Harm—All squares in the area are treated as difficult terrain for 1 minute.

The Cleric chose to channel primarily Positive energy. That's 3d6 positive channel at 5th level. Versatile Channel feat allows 2d6 negative channel damage at 5th level. The Variant Channeling archetype causes an effect (difficult terrain) and inflicts a flat 50% of normal damage, no save. Thus this cleric's negative channel to harm living inflicts 1d6 damage to all within 30', no saving throw.

The ambush in a crowded army camp allowed the cleric to channel negative energy twice to harm , rolling a 6 and a 5, affecting 22 creatures (counting 2 allies). That's 22x11 = 242 hp channel damage. That was 220 hp to foes and 22 hp to allies. @Darkbridger: Correct, no Selective Channel.

The Cleric player politely left a record of exactly which buffs were active. They were Defending Bone, Enlarge Person, Bless, Divine Favor for +2 +2 (see Fate's Favored trait), Bull's Strength (+2 +3), Protection from Evil, and +2 bardsong. Buffs gave +7 to hit and +7 damage with DR5/bludgeoning.

Cleric got only 2 AoOs (-2 DEX for Large) per round. They struck at roughly +14 to hit for 2D6+18 damage. So average 25 HP damage per hit. We tried to count and are pretty sure the cleric scored 8 hits over 6 rounds of combat. Only one attack missed, on a natural 1. Some hits were surely overkill, but not every hit killed a foe. So roughly 8 hits x 25 hp each = 200 hp inflicted with longspear, all with AoOs.

The foes were ambushed but there was not a surprise round. The cleric scored two kills with AoOs before even getting to act on Round 1 (Combat Reflexes!). Foes did try to concentrate missile fire on the spear-wielding giant but other PCs suppressed them and the Defending Bone buff stopped a lot. This was definitely a team effort. The cleric did take some damage from missile fire.

At one point six foes moved adjacent to the cleric while others fired missile weapons, but they all died before they could inflict much damage. There was a lot of acrobatic movement to avoid AoOs on both sides. The GM was tactically sharp and played the foes as intelligent and tactically savvy.

The cleric then moved and Channeled Positive to heal (mostly) allies twice for about 20 hp total. That brought most of the party, including the cleric, back up to full health. Several dying foes were revived, and got up to continue to fight, but it made no difference.

So the cleric spent 4 rounds channeling, two negative to harm and two positive to heal. There was considerable friendly fire and even more hostile healing. Not sure what cleric did on 5th and 6th round, but by then enemy morale had broken and the survivors were either trying to save themselves or fighting to the death. Two Extra Channels were not used, and cleric still had ample resources left after this fight.


Total damage seemed to be about 200 hp inflicted with longspear attacks, another 220 damage to foes with negative channeling, and 22 hp friendly fire damage. So about 420 damage to foes over 6 rounds. That's actual combat 70 DPS at 5th level.

@Darkbridger: Yes, this seems to be a pretty standard well-optimized reach cleric. Potions of Featherstep were purchased at standard rates. The situation was perfect to maximize this character's effectiveness. This PC has done well in most other fights, but this one was exceptional. It's clearly a very strong build. I, too, don't know why we don't see it more often.

Grand Lodge

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I just participated in an epic 5th level Pathfinder combat. We PCs were badly outnumbered if not outmatched. One PC unexpectedly distinguished herself. Whoda thunk that a CLERIC would deal big damage and so thoroughly command a battlefield?

This cleric distinguished herself by slaying more than half the foes, inflicting huge damage, and still finding time to save gravely wounded allies.

I watched (from my sniper nest) this character ambush a small horde of dangerous foes and crush them.

First the cleric swiftly enlarged to double size, threatening most of the battlefield with a longspear. Then the cleric channeled negative energy in a variant channel Earth-effect that harmed everyone on the field and made the whole field difficult terrain. The friendly fire damage stung but I took solace knowing that every foe on the field took the same amount of damage. The cleric had already distributed potions of Featherstep, a buff that lets one ignore difficult terrain, to allies.

The large cleric then dished out numerous AoOs, which usually hit for about 25 damage each. Enemies struggled in difficult terrain to close the gap while the cleric, wearing Featherstep Slippers, danced about and nimbly avoided them. Each round enemies would try to close with the large cleric and she would slay a few with monstrous AoOs. She'd then slip away, without AoOs, before the survivors could harm her much. She'd then channel again. The last survivors tried to flee.

I noticed that this cleric never attacked on her round, yet caused more hp damage than the rest of the party combined. After killing most of the enemies, and considerable friendly fire, she then channeled positive energy to heal the entire party, which was quite badly banged up by now.

I was struck by how this cleric massively out-damaged all the other PCs, even the Summoner and the Bloodrager Barbarian Combat Monster named Minmax. The negative energy channel rolls were extremely lucky, all 5s and 6s. All told, in a battle against 25 foes, this 5th level cleric caused at least 400+ hp damage over a 6 round combat. While still finding time to heal allies in combat. Twice.

Is this common? Have other people encountered this sort of killer-cleric that can so decisely stomp difficult combat encounters. Is this sort of refined tactical movement a common thing in your games? It seemed a simple build, with feats like Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, and a couple channel feats. The only thing I've ever seen come close is Dazing Fireballs from a spell-shaper.

Grand Lodge

Kyrrion wrote:
I don't think a single attack from the Bard is going to kill anything by the time you get all those feats...

Probably not, but that depends how hard the Bard hits for. It's not hard for said Bard to average 25 HP damage per hit on the Whirlwind Attack. Said Bard could also get in 1-2 attacks as the foes come in range. That's 50+ HP of attacks on one foe, plus another 25 HP to every other foe.

Status effects are great. I was just pointing out that, for the feat investment to get those effects, it would also be possible to inflict quite a lot of damage on all foes within the same range. Sometimes the status effects are better, sometimes the raw damage is better.

Grand Lodge

It would totally work. You might not like the unintended consequences of it working, though. For a different 5 feats your Bard could get Whirlwind Attack, drink a Potion of Enlarge Person, and make those same foes in 25' radius dead ...

Grand Lodge

*** Performs a necromantic ritual, raising a long-dead thread. ***

I'm trying to find the Level 4 version of the Iconics, for a game tomorrow. I've seen them before, and even played some at Level 4, but I can't remember where I found them. Please, someone direct me to the Level 4 Iconics. Amiri, in particular.

*** Because of this thread necromancy, another thread did not die ***