...This includes the "character build" (I dislike the term, but it's one that most will understand...
Curious why you don't like the term.
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Thanks for joining in, Dragonchess. Gygax does talk about Tactics being different in different situations: "The game you play is specific, has its own rules, and is certainly unique. Each game campaign - each scenario with in the campaign - is different, and so too, are the tactics that apply... ...Variables such as the number of PCs in a group, watch character's attributes, and the class or skills attached to each PC make it a virtual impossiblity to treat tactics on a specific level." Nice look at strategy. More to come. Look forward to your input.
Chapter 7 of Role-Playing Mastery is Tactical Mastery, but Gygax does not actually define tactics. Nor is it included in Appendix E (Glossary of Terms). So, we're going to borrow Merriam Webster for that: Tactics - the art or skill of employing available means to accomplish an end. Goal - the overall reason for playing a given role-playing game (entertainment) as well as the reason(s) specified within the game for playing it. That definition of 'Goal' is included in Appendix E. And it gives a definition both for the player, and for the character. Merriam Webster defines it as, the end toward which effort is directed. So, in looking at Gygax' Tactical Tips, we can look at tactics as the methods used to achieve the goal. We'll get into Strategy as well.
We covered the first two of Gygax's eleven Tactical Mastery Tips, here near the end of this thread. I decided to start a new Thread, looking at all 11. Gygax's 11 Tips of Tactical Mastery Hopefully some folks will jump on board, and we'll have some terrific discussion, like we did here.
From 2012 into 2017, there was a pretty cool Thread here, talking about Gary Gygax's 17 Steps to Role Playing Mastery. Those Steps are contained in his 1987 book, Role-Playing Mastery. Folks jumped in and out, and it grew to over 650 posts before I finally let it dwindle out. We moved outside just the 17 Steps along the way, and there's some great discussion. You can find the whole thing here:
In one chapter of the book, he lists 11 Tactical Mastery Tips. I had broached the first two near the end of the Thread. I figured I'd start up a new Thread here, to talk about his take on Tactical Mastery. I'll follow the same format I did for the Role-Playing Mastery thread. I'll kick it off with the Intro I used for that one. Then the next post, I'll cover Tip One. Hopefully some folks will jump on board. Only rule is to be civil. We had a great discussion and no one was ever a problem. You really should click over and check it out, if you've got some time. Gary Gygax's 11 Tactical Mastery Tips If you're reading this post, you probably know that Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson co-created Dungeons and Dragons circa 1973-1974. Unfortunately it was not a long-lasting partnership and lawsuits would ensue. While both were instrumental in creating D&D, it is Gygax who is remembered as the Father of Role Playing. In 1987, Gary Gygax put out a book entitled Role-Playing Mastery, which gave instructions on how to excel as a player in role-playing games. At that time, there were essentially two versions of Dungeons and Dragons. The Original, or ‘Basic’ game, had evolved under Tom Moldvay’s rules development. Gygax, meanwhile, was focused on Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, or ’AD&D’. They were marketed as separate rules systems and 2nd Edition AD&D would not be released until 1989. Gygax had been pushed completely out of TSR (the company he cofounded to print the first set of D&D rules) by December 31, 1986, so he was no longer associated with D&D when this book came out. In an interview not long before he died, Gygax was asked how he’d like to be remembered and replied: “I would like the world to remember me as the guy who really enjoyed playing games and sharing his knowledge and his fun pastimes with everybody else.” This book, which he wrote about twenty years before his death, reflects that philosophy. On a side note, he wrote a companion book that came out in 1989, Master of the Game, which focused on the Dungeon Master/Game Master side of role-playing. They are both interesting reads; partly because he takes the subject so seriously. And bear in mind that PC gaming consisted of titles like Ultima IV, Wizardry, and Bard’s Tale. Pool of Radiance, the first of the gold box series, was a year away. MMORPGs weren’t even conceived of yet (yes, I know MUDs existed). But computer gaming was a very different world. People RPGd by sitting around a table together. And Gary Gygax suggested how they could be very good at it. So, next post will begin a look a Gary Gygax's 11 Tactical Mastery Tips.
I can't imagine anyone will see this. But this remains my favorite D&D-related discussion. In 2014 (two years after I started this thread), I I began blogging weekly at the World Fantasy Award-winning website, BlackGate.com. Today, I started a multi-post series, based on this thread. I'm not using anybody's comments (that would be inappropriate), but I have added in some of my responses to points folks made. I think this is an absolutely terrific thread, and I appreciate everyone who contributed. Thanks. Here's the link to Part I, which covered Steps 1 to 5.
Along with the 17 steps, I'm gonna do a couple bonus posts from this thread, including his 5 Stage of Group Success, and his Outline of STudy for Mastery. I've already re-read some pretty good discussion we had on metagaming/cheating, and options bloat. So, maybe I'll find a way to get some of that in as well. This really was a great thread. Thank you all.
Not dead, but definitely have been absent. I am a government agency Fiscal Officer and had to cut about $10 million out of our budget request this year, on top of the rest of the job. I did it. Am now turning my attention back to actual outside life. Earlier this year, I had a post over at BlackGate.com on Dungeon Delving tips. It contained a dozen, with another thirteen to follow. Six months later, Part Two will go online shortly. The 25 tips are very much old school pen and paper and contain a lot of Gygaxian principles. Hopefully I'll get caught up on this thread shortly.
The game experience is definitely better on a monitor than an ipad screen. Everything is much easier to read and the visuals are better "spread out." It was definitely worth buying again on the PC.
'Tales From the Yawning Portal' is out for 5th Edition. It includes several of the classic modules, like Tomb of Horrors, Against the Giants and Hidden Shrine of Tamoachen. I haven't read/played those since I was young, but from what I recalled, I was thinking about how you could employ Gygax' tactical approach to them. I seem to remember just trying to stay alive from room to room in ToH, though. No planning involved.
Character goals and missions and party ones can be the same, different, complementary or contrasting. I didn't think about the distinctions while looking at Tactics. Of course, Gygax emphasizes party and team throughout the book. I don't have Role Playing Mastery with me at work today (forgot my backpack), but I think he was talking about party tactics. Worth further delving into.
I was thinking the Mission might be more specific. This one seems too general to me. Mission - Find a treasure horde to make lots of money Goal - Recover Durgeddin's swords from the halls of Khundrakar Objectives
Though Mission and Goal aren't very different in that example.
When I was thinking of the Forge of Fury example, I was having a bit of a tough time distinguishing mission from goal. Still am.
Last month over at BlackGate.com, I put up the first of a two-part essay that includes 25 tips on Dungeon delving. Creighton Broadhurst of Raging Swan Press came up with the list and I added some thoughts about the first dozen. Part two is coming soon. Comments on the items welcome.
Tactical Mastery Tip #2 - Define the Objectives. The mission and goal, once defined and analyzed, will contain distinct places where progress can be measured. As step one was 'Know the Goal,' defining the objectives seems like a reasonable second step. What are the steps to achieve the goal. A party is going to play Forge of Fury (just about my favorite 3rd Edition module). The mission is to find forged by Durgeddin in the monster-infested dwarven hall of Khundrakar. The goal is to recover the weapons and escape the hall alive. The first objective is to gain entrance to the hall. There are a couple different ways - none easy. We'll say the party managed to get in through the front door (yeah, sure). The next objective is probably to get across the chasm that no longer has a rope bridge across it, the Orcs having destroyed it in retreat. If the party manages to get across, a new objective is set. Each such objective should take you one step closer to attainment. It's not exactly paint by numbers, but the objective should generally be stepping stones to the goal - maybe with the order jumbled a bit. Next up is 'Make, and Follow, a Plan.'
Tactical Mastery Tip #1 - Know the goal. The mission should have a set goal. Gygax states that when the goal is successfully achieved, the mission is complete and the adventure should conclude at that point. That's pretty direct. He acknowledges they can overlap, but to differentiate mission from goal, he says that the mission is a description of what must be done to achieve success. The goal is an enumeration of the conditions that will prevail when the mission is complete. For an example, he talks about the mission being to catch a criminal. The goal of the mission is accomplished when the criminal is behind bars. I know I've played in groups where our goal for a session or the task in front of us was never defined. We basically moved ahead and looked for monsters and treasure. That's certainly not tactics. Not much of a strategy either, for that matter. Knowing the mission and defining the goal leads into his next tactic, which relates to objectives.
If anybody here is a fan of T1 - Hommlet and the Temple of Elemental Evil, I did a two-part series about them, including recounting some of Gygax' play sessions in developing them. Just thought I'd mention that. TACTICS Chapter 7 of Role Playing Mastery is titled 'Tactical Mastery.' As with other parts of the book, you get a look inside Gygax' head. Knowing the game system and its specific rules gives the master player insight into the strategy of the game. This knowledge also allows the player to devise a grand tactical plan for the success and advancement of his character. I never thought of a tactical plan for my character. Within a group and in specific situations, we discuss tactics (ad nauseum sometimes), but that's about it for me. He talks about how difficult it is to generalize tactics due to campaigns and scenarios being different, group composition varying, etc. However, he does come up with some Tactical Mastery Tips. We covered all 17 Steps to Role Playing Mastery, so I'm going to do the Tactical Tips one by one. Before enumerating the tips, Gygax says: This specific general knowledge will enable the serious player to become a master of the tactics of his chosen RPG system, providing he assiduously applies his knowledge in a thoughtful and reasoned way. As we've mentioned several times before, he certainly is taking these topics seriously. Which is both understandable and proper, since presumably someone paid money to buy this book.
Recently read through the 5th Edition Dungeon Masters Guide. There was some interesting stuff in there about different genres of fantasy RGP, how to apply rules, etc. Deciding if its worth buying the Player's Handbook as well. Pathfinder has spoiled me in having both those tomes together in one volume. I think that should be a standard for RPGs. Also proofing the Conan 2d20 handbook. I still haven't wrapped my head around how that one works. I'm very d20ish.
In other forums, I've discussed how Robert E. Howard's The Scarlet Citadel reads like a dungeon crawl - decades before Gygax invented D&D. The Tower of the Elephant as well. It's all but impossible to deny that Tolkien heavily influenced Gygax, despite his minimizing of the impact (which I do believe is primarily related to the legal issues). And people who know better than I say agree that the magic system is Vanceian. The flip side would be to look at how D&D has clearly influenced fantasy authors. Raymond E. Feist and Scott Erickson's popular series are based on their own RPG worlds.
So, for D&D 5th Edition, 'Classic Modules Today' are conversions of old D&D modules to the current system. People sign up to 'claim" a module, then update it. Kinda neat. I downloaded the very short, two page conversion guide (not much in it, actually), but I found this analysis an interesting read: The CMT conversions also adhere to the original adventure module's content, in the spirit of Old School Roleplaying. For those unfamiliar with the core concepts of Old School Roleplaying, here are the most important points. 1. OSR adventures were as much as, if not more of, a test of the players' abilities as their characters. Many adventures had scenarios that required the players to think of solutions themselves, rather than rely on the abilities of their characters. 2. The rules for early edition games were often simpler or heavily customized for ease of play. The DM was granted absolute power to make rule decisions on the fly, with the understanding that fair arbitration would be upheld. This is often simplified to the phrase "Rulings, not rules". 3. The OSR games were based on sword and sorcery literature. In these stories, happy endings were uncommon, strange and vicious creatures flourished, weird magic was the norm, and protagonists were less hero and more mercenary in bent. 4. The mortality rate of characters in OSR games was much higher than it is in modern RPGs. Characters were better than normal folk, but not super heroic. They were expected to hire additional people to accompany them on dungeon forays due to the danger level. Strange magic could help a character or slay him instantly, sometimes without even a saving throw allowed to help him avoid that fate. The characters were not guaranteed level appropriate fights - they could easily wander into the wrong dungeon and be summarily wiped out by an annoyed dragon or angry undead. Running away when faced with a too-powerful foe was an acceptable tactic. 5. OSR character advancement required a lot of experience points. The gold piece value of treasure acquired was added to the pool of experience from killing monsters before dividing amongst the characters. Because of this, adventures give out of lot of monetary treasure. The DM will want to reduce the amount of monetary treasure
We've been talking about some of these very points in this thread.
I came across this today: Clerical spells, including the druidic, are bestowed by the gods, so that the cleric need but pray for a few hours and the desired verbal and somatic spell components will be placed properly in his or her mind. First, second, third and even fourth level spells are granted to the cleric through meditation and devout prayer. This spell giving is accomplished by the lesser servants of the cleric’s deity. Fifth, sixth and seventh level spells can be given to the cleric ONLY by the cleric’s deity himself, not through some intermediate source. Note that the cleric might well be judged by this or her deity at such time, as the cleric must supplicate the deity for the granting of these spells. While the deity may grant such spells full willingly a deed, or sacrifice, atonement or abasement may be required. The deity might also ignore a specific spell request and give the cleric some other spell (or none at all).” It's from a version of the Player's Handbook - not sure which edition. I enjoy running across stuff I'd either never noticed or didn't remember from previous D&D iterations. The idea of a quest to gain an upper level spell is great! Necromancer Games' 'Raise the Dead' supplement had some adventures related to raising a dead character - instead of just paying some gold and moving along with all the same gravity involved in buying a horse. It made it an event. I like Gygax' idea of having the character some how "earn" the spell, rather than it just being a flat reward for leveling up.
The amount of product for just $15 is amazing. Freeport alone makes this a deal. There's a lot of cool stuff in this offer: much of which I already had. But it was still a great purchase for the rest. Highly recommended.
GrayWolf - Though as a beginning GM, I don't think I was very good at improvising at all. That was something that I got better at as I got more experienced.
Creighton Broadhurst of Raging Swan Press had another good post. He listed 8 Tips for Beginning GMs. 1 - Everyone at your table is there (hopefully) to have fun.
You can click on the link to see his comments on each item. What do folks think? And what would you add to the list?
Similarly, I felt that Drizz't Do'Urden, through his abilities, was overpowered compared to the rest of the Legend of Drizz't game cast. It's an imbalance. I know... But as I recall, he can have two attacks every turn. He's the only character out of 20 heroes in the series (not 100% sure on Ravenloft, though) that has that ability. That seems a wee bit excessive. I was out getting lunch today with the guy who always played Drizz't. And he said, "Who cares about game balance? As long as it leads me to have more fun, I'm all for it. And Drizz't killing more monsters is more fun." So he'd ascribe to your thought! I did think of playing a ToEE using the four main Drizz't characters and writing up a short story of Drizz't and company adventuring in the Temple.
We've been playing the Temple of Elemental Evil board game at lunch for the past week. I find the "Advantaged/Disadvantaged" rule from 5th Edition interesting. If you're not familiar with it: if your character has the Advantaged condition, they roll two dice (instead of one) and take the high roll. Likewise, for Disadvantaged, your roll two and take the lower one. Normally, the condition only applies for one turn. Some of the Utility and Daily powers (I think) allow your character or someone else to gain Advantage for that one turn. That can be a big help at a key moment. However, the Rogue has an automatic power choice: Every turn, it can automatically reveal and disable a trap (there are a LOT of traps) on its tile, or have Advantage. Our Rogue has kept the Advantage condition about 90% of the time. And it's made a HUGE difference, with several failed rolls actually being successful. By making a powerful condition essentially be a bonus at will power, it has, I think, over powered the Rogue compared to the other characters and the monsters. A gamer at a stats website did some analysis and wrote "The effect is huge. There’s less than a 9% chance of rolling 15 or higher with disadvantage, whereas there’s a 30% chance normally and a 51% chance with advantage." As a variation from the conditions used in prior D&D board games, I find the Advantage/Disadvantage a neat idea, but I think it has been abused regarding the Rogue character. I'm not certain it applies, but stuff like this always makes me think of a Gygax sentence from 'Role Playing Mastery': "Too often, new material purporting to add to a game system is nothing more than a veiled attempt to dominate the game milieu through power, not skill." Similarly, I felt that Drizz't Do'Urden, through his abilities, was overpowered compared to the rest of the Legend of Drizz't game cast. It's an imbalance.
I belong to an Evangelical Christian church. And we believe that if you are a Christian, you need to attend services. You can study scripture (which I do, being a voracious reader) and try to figure things out on your own, but entering into community is a part of the New Testament's instructions to us. I think Step 17 is similar. I've read far more 3rd Edition and Pathfinder products than I can keep track of. But I didn't play for several years. So I enjoyed reading things, and consciously or not, I was trying to learn, but without the practical experience of playing: Of being around the table, or even a PbP on the boards (which is how I got back into RPGing), it's clear to me that my game skill wasn't increasing. And I wasn't advancing any mastery (not that I was even thinking about that). Even playing PC games during that time kept me "in the genre" to an extent, but it wasn't a substitute for actual RPG playing. Something I'm becoming more aware of as I spend some time playing the Neverwinter Nights MMO. It's enjoyable, but for RPG skill development, it's like popcorn vs. a steak; no substance. All of Gygax' prior 16 Steps are related to achieving his definition of mastery. But I agree, even if you get really good at RPGing, you need to keep learning and getting better to not see a decline. Which is one reason you see owners and execs at the 3rd Party companies playing and running games at Cons.
Gary Gygax’s 17 Steps to Role Playing Mastery Note: Italics are quotes by Gygax, contained in the book, Role Playing Mastery. Step Seventeen - Continue to learn and grow even after you achieve mastery. Mastery is like any other acquired skill. If you do not continually use and exercise it, the skill will atrophy. But if you remain actively involved in the hobby at the highest level you can attain, you will be pleasantly surprised to find that your level of expertise keeps rising
That last bit seems a little cheesy, but it's actually a neat way for Gygax to end his 17 Steps. He was barely a quarter of the way through the book, but still, it's a nice RPG type of closure. I agree completely with Gygax here. I used to play Ultimate (Frisbee), competing at the Nationals and Worlds levels. Practice and skill repetition was crucial to excelling. And when I stopped playing competitively and practicing, my game wasn't as sharp out there on the summer league fields. I'm currently shaking the rust off of my GMing skills after several years of not running (or playing) any campaigns. The more you play (and run) RPG games, the better you can expect to be at them. Step 12 was Play as Frequently as Possible, which certainly feeds into this Step.
Was digging into the history of T1 - The Village of Hommlet over the weekend. That was some interesting reading. I'm going to posit (in another Black Gate post) that there were two reasons (one business, one gaming) that The Temple of Elemental Evil was delayed so long. Step 17 coming this week. Then we'll explore some other parts of the book. I've also been reading Gygax' book on GMing, but it's not as smooth. My post on S&W vs. Pathfinder has turned out to be the second most read post of the entire year over at Black Gate. I've started putting together a similar post looking at reasons to make the opposite choice (personally, I LOVE character creation and all the options).
I don't agree Old school games and Pathfinder differences are small. Compare it to watching a college football team, running a wishbone, play a team running a run and shoot - they're both football, but they're sure as heck not similar. You could at least read the Black Gate post that is the basis of this whole thread. Matt Finch's distinctions are the core of it. You aren't going to change your mind, but you may end up acknowledging some of the points.
Wow. That is certainly a difference in scaling. Certainly as far as conversion goes. I guess, to the extent it didn't mess with the theme, I'd ignore what the monster was and look for something more in the CR-appropriate range. So, undead Ogres would probably be out. Though maybe something tough if there is an alternate mode of entry. Force the party to choose how to get in. Thanks!
Are you getting paid for clicks? If you want to have a discussion here, why don't you post the substance your article here instead of pimping some third party website? No, I don't get paid a cent. It's a really long post to put up here (well over a thousand words), and I can't incorporate graphics here. So, I refer to the OP.
Talking about something isn't 'driving a wedge' unless you take a tone that makes it that way. I don't think I did that. The game isn't played the same as it was. There wouldn't have been the movement for retroclones if the two styles were the same. Do you disagree with Matt Finch's four 'Zen Moments'? I'm not saying either S&W or Pathfinder is better. But I'm working on a follow-up post that looks at a more modern approach in light of the OP. Running a S&W game and at the same time re-reading the PF rules for the next campaign, beginning at character creation ,there is a difference in approach and play. Just as there's a difference between playing an MMO RPG and a pen and paper RPG. Football and baseball and basketball are different than they used to be. Stuff changes. I play Pathfinder and Swords & Wizardry. You can like different approaches and even try to merge them, like Creighton Broadhust talks about in his blog. But the distinction is there and I find it interesting enough to write about.
Have no fear - I'm not taking a break from the thread again. I'm going to be contributing to a new RPG column for BlackGate.com (I already write a mystery-themed one there) and I'm getting some stuff together before launch in a couple months. Today I was working on a post related to game balance/level appropriate challenges. I'm both for and against it. Though I use Goodman Games' 4th Edition module, Forges of the Mountain King as an example of ridiculous unbalance at the beginning. I didn't look into 4th Edition. Are characters overpowered at 1st level? One of the first encounters is with two undead Ogres with 88 hp (or so) each. The first time they are killed, they rise again at half hit points. That seems like a heck of a way to start things off. Shortly thereafter, there is a live Ogre, with 112 hp. That's awfully extreme, isn't it?
I meant to post this on the 'Role Playing Mastery' thread I'm running, not here. Sorry about that.
Have no fear - I'm not taking a break from the thread again. I'm going to be contributing to a new RPG column for BlackGate.com (I already write a mystery-themed one there) and I'm getting some stuff together before launch in a couple months. Today I was working on a post related to game balance/level appropriate challenges. I'm both for and against it. Though I use Goodman Games' 4th Edition module, Forges of the Mountain King as an example of ridiculous unbalance at the beginning.
Several stretch goals have been added - they've already unlocked the first one (reproduction of the new cover).
Terquem - gamers at my S&W table act like they're 12 years old some time. I think that's as close as we'll get!
Here's a post on the Kickstarter which I wrote for BlackGate.com. Shipping (and stretch goals) isn't up yet. My current Complete Rules is 144 pages. I can't imagine this reprinting, even with two additional adventures, is going to be too much longer. This thing shouldn't be half the size of Bard's Gate.
BTW, instead of using the Sleep spell, I had the shaman use Charm Person on the fighter instead. It failed and the shaman was chopped down immediately thereafter.
I meant the cover. The regular version's cover is changing. Does anyone know if the leather version will be different? I was just commenting on the kickstarter itself. But Bill Webb wrote in reply to a comment: "Leather book comes with a regular copy, but no, it is silver foil stamped." I think that means it will have a reproduction of the new art cover.
Thanks for the comments on the Sleep spell. Since everybody is 1st level, they were pretty much out of luck no matter what. I do like the "Not kill them" idea, at least. Maybe some Goblin torturing going on. The party tried to kill the one awake Goblin with the Rogue and Ranger shooting at him with bows. If they had an instant kill, I was going to let them try to sneak up on the others and see how things went. The Rogue had one of the worst-rolling sessions I have been a part of. He only had two successes, and he had somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 incidences. He missed both bow shots at the sentry, which resulted in a full blown fight - including that shaman.
Yesterday, a new Kickstarter for a third printing of the Swords & Wizardry rules funded in about 15 hours. Last month, I wrote a post over at BlackGate.com on why I chose Swords & Wizardry and old school gaming over Pathfinder and a more modern approach for running my latest game. There will be a follow-up post, talking about the merits of Pathfinder over old school as well. Thought folks might find it interesting, as it did well at BlackGate.
Same text with minor changes to game play examples. But there will be two new adventures included. I'm looking forward to the stretch goals, as this thing funded in less than a day.
We had our second session in my S&W game last night. The party was undamaged, though the dwarf fighter marched up to a door covered with purple moss, yanked it open and was immediately rendered unconscious. The thief grabbed him with a grappling hook on the second try and the party dragged him out of the room. The World of Warcrafter (playing a Ranger) again commented that she is still thinking like an MMO player and hasn't re-oriented herself to the pen and paper style. That's something I'm watching in the decision making processes. I need to dig into the S&W rules. The Goblin Shaman had a Sleep spell, with no save. It can't just put the whole party to sleep, ending the adventure...
Glory Hole Dwarven Mine was a Judges Guild delve for AD&D. Axe of the Dwarvish Lords was a TSR module for AD&D. Erik Mona has said several times he dislikes dwarves. A dwarven AP seems unlikely, sad to say.
Terquem - I had players explaining stuff to me when I ran a couple of PlayByPost games here on the Pathfinder forums. And I had limited options to just the Core Rulebook! I just ran a Swords & Wizardry session today at lunch for 3 players with a total of two sessions experience between them. I was trying to figure out the AC table (I'd been using the descending system, and this adventure used ascending). Nobody was an expert in this game. But the Cleric rolled a 1 and lost her mace while fighting a zombie. Everybody laughed! I would just find the system/rule set you like and go with it, whether you're GMing or playing. And let the chips fall where they may. I plan on taking the S&W group over to Pathfinder after we finish Grimmsgate. Then I'll see which system they liked more - the older, rules-light one, or the weighty, complex Pathfinder one. I try to reference things by Gygax' book because that was the idea behind this thread. But you need a sense of context for some of it. Like the ridiculous requirements in his Outline of Mastery. I didn't work that hard on my Master's Thesis!
Welcome to Terquem and Rannik. And also to John Robey. I hope you'll have a shorter time span between posts this time around! Seriously, it's great to see more folks engage in the conversations around this topic. We're near the end of Gygax' steps, so the conversation has drifted a bit, but I think the posts are still germane to those interested in the original posts about Gygax' steps to role playing mastery. And I think they're still interesting. And I'll try to work in some other material from that book that wasn't part of the 17 steps.
Was browsing through Pathfinder's Strategy Guide, written by head Kobold Wolfgang Bauer. The book, which is pretty neat, is designed to help those new to RPGs (it's still got useful stuff for experienced players). I came across this sidebar: THE MOST IMPORTANT RULE
Specifically mentioning "combat and narrative modes,' it directly addresses balance in what we've been talking about as old school vs. modern approaches to RPGing. And it specifically incorporates that balance into the purpose of Pathfinder rules. And it specifically supports Rannik's last sentence!
Yeah, it was a strange read. That, and using a d6 for damage, with 1-2 and 6 resulting in damage... The "Zones" idea was interesting and struck me as a bit more old schoolish than modern movement. Doom Pool, Momentum, I figure there must be other alternative systems somewhat like this out there, but I've never seen one. Once I get a handle on it and the Conan core rulebook comes out, I'll write a Black Gate post on the system. Definitely nothing like my RPG upbringing.
On an unrelated note, I backed the new Conan RPG, coming from Modiphius. It uses the 2d20 system, which I was totally unfamiliar with. I downloaded the quickstart quide from RPG Drive thru for free. This is a very different way to play from D&D/Pathfinder. For me, at least. I didn't get most of it on the first try and am going to read it a few more times. Combat seems to be handled quite differently from old and new school. I will say that I expect the Conan content aspect to be phenomenal.
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The people of Breachill and the Bumblebrashers need help! Please don't let them down, Pathfinders! And a pirate adventure by HMM in time for talk like a pirate day?! Yarr!! And Starfinder delving into mysteries at distant bases and a race around Absalom Station... I'm so excited for this month <3
Hello! Running this Wednesday so wanted to open up a space to ask questions. First up, in the final encounter the Locust Horde ability refers to ending persistent damage from the aura. Is the Disgorge Swarm damage intended to be persistent? It looks like there was a name change from Locust Infestation that didn't get cleaned up in the high tier so I'm wondering if the ability changed and the reference to persistent damage is an artifact of an older version. I'll come back with more as I reread things.
So excited to have this adventure finally out. Been imagining this day since working on Future's Fall. In case anyone decides to sing-along, Auntie's theme music is set to the Weird Al show theme song. Also, here's the playlist I came up for for Anavay, Tunes to Crush Tyrants to. Excited to see anyone else's picks. Do my best to answer any questions, though development did make a few changes, and they are as always the final authority. I really really hope people have fun, and good luck to the Starfinders against the Vault Lord. Your players are probably gonna need it. :)
I was working on a playlist to go along with all the bands. Here's what I've got so far. I was curious if anyone had their own ideas :) Absa-Wow - DJ Snake Lil John - Turn Down for What ( 3:36)
Hello! I have an upcoming open game night on Feb 02 and thought it would be fun to do something time loop related or involving protecting a small fluffy creature. I haven't managed to find a scenario that fits so far and thought I'd check with the greater consciousness. Any suggestions for a Groundhog Day themed PFS or SFS scenario? Thank you!
I believe this is coming out today so wanted to start the discussion thread in case anyone was running it tonight or tomorrow and had questions. I'll do my best to answer if I can. I wanted to also call out particularly the 150 minute cutoff time for the first half of the adventure under The Investigation -> Timing. This is really important to be mindful of to prevent the adventure from going long. There's a lot to explore in Dis and it's easy to lose track of time. The cut-off is there to make sure there's plenty of time for the exploration of Area G and the discussion afterward.
I'm currently playing a shadow sorcerer in an AP with friends and trickery and AoE effects have started having a negligible effect on monsters with 500+ hp and frequently true seeing [our GM is maximizing and increasing monster HP by an additional 50% because we're a five person party instead of the AP expected four]. I'm about to hit level 18 and I'm wondering what spell I can take / swap / shadow duplicate for that'll be most helpful for taking high CON/ High HP monsters down a bit more quickly once I've finished throwing out buffs and crowd control. The monsters aren't really threatening us; it's just taking hours and hours of IRL time to finish them off. Since we only meet once or twice a month, it's getting a bit frustrating. I'm currently leaning toward the shadow enchantment spells and just throwing save or suck will saves at them, but I wanted to check if there was a better way. :-) Thank you for any help!
Hi, Starting up PFS at the FLGS at the Hampshire Mall in Hadley, MA, for those of us not in the Boston/Worcester area. :) Sessions will be Thursdays, 6:30 - 10:30 PM Warhorn for signups: https://warhorn.net/events/x9-games-pfs If you're interested, feel free to contact me with any questions. And if you're in the area and you're interested in GM'ing definitely let me know! There's plenty of table space for additional slots we could be offering.
Had an encounter in a session this past Sunday where my sorcerer attempted to shadow conjuration a create pit against a clay golem and the GM ruled the golem walked over the pit and ignored it since it allowed SR. No problem, gotta keep the game moving and didn't want to push a rules debate, but it did raise the question for me of how the golems interact with such spells. Would a golem be able to walk through a greater shadow conjuration wall of stone despite its instantaneous duration? My assumption would be the pit is affecting the floor still, not the golem directly, and the wall might just be flimsier but they'd still do something since they're at least partially real. The relevant rules seemed to be: "Spell resistance has no effect unless the energy created or released by the spell actually goes to work on the resistant creature's mind or body. If the spell acts on anything else and the creature is affected as a consequence, no roll is required. Spell-resistant creatures can be harmed by a spell when they are not being directly affected." "Magic actually has to be working for spell resistance to apply. Spells that have instantaneous durations but lasting results aren't subject to spell resistance unless the resistant creature is exposed to the spell the instant it is cast" But maybe shadow spells are just inherently magical in a way that creatures with SR get to ignore regardless of what they're doing. I've been searching to find a definitive answer on this and didn't want to necro an old only partially related thread, but if anyone can point me to the answer or happens to know, I'd be very grateful. :-) Thanks!
My friend challenged me to make something for spellcasters, and I remembered the original 3.5 version of the Golarion campaign setting mentioned the students of the Arcanamirium engaged in spell duels, so I went from there. Please let me know what you think :) Students of the Arcanamirium focus on practical magic, usable in the physical world. Formal and informal duels between students are common, but only the most exceptional draw the eye of the Archdean, Lady Darchana, who organizes the school's annual grand duel. Trained in advanced arcana, and rigorously tested against each other, these spell duelists become masters of sorcerous combat. Class Details: Hit Die: d6 Requirements: Feats: Combat Casting
Class Skills:
Skills Ranks at Each Level: 2+Int modifier. Progression: Arcanamirium Spell Duelist Level 1:
Level 2:
Level 3:
Level 4:
Level 5:
Level 6:
Level 7:
Level 8:
Level 9:
Level 10:
Class Features: Bonus Feats:
The spell duelist need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for the feats to select them. Focused Strikes (Su):
Spell Tactics (Ex):
Battered Defenses (Su):
Practiced Duelist(Ex):
Power Grab (Su):
Spell Devastation (Ex):
From reading the designers' posts, it sounds like there's no eta on getting rules for the Deific Obedience feat and new prestige classes from Inner Sea Gods for the non-core deities. So I thought I'd try my hand at writing up rules for one of them and see how it looked. So here's the Obedience and PrC boons for Sivanah: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kb1ug0YD3HmJZNHgQH6dzR82JIgCj-YVB8X9jfv W9GM/pub Please let me know what you think, and if you have any suggestions for balance or needed clarification in the rules text.
This adventure is intended for four 5th level characters, and will advance them to 6th level by its end. Adventure Background
The followers of Sivanah have their own secret celebration on this sacred anniversary. During the four days leading up to the Seven Veils Festival, the already unstable fabric of reality around Quantium experiences a temporary conjunction with a fragment of Sivanah’s own realm. The church of the Seventh Veil uses the fragment as both a reward and prison; enemies the church would like to quietly disappear and those faithful with secrets so great the afterlife provides insufficient protection receive invitations to a grand masquerade held at the palatial estate where the conjunction takes place. The family that oversees the event recently vanished on a trip to Jalmeray, leaving only their adopted Vudrani daughter, Seyona, to oversee the masquerade. Plagued with loneliness and grief and lacking the discipline to manage a large estate, Seyona thought her prayers were answered when a young woman named Mariska appeared on her doorstep petitioning for an apprenticeship. Mariska displayed a sharp, ordered mind, well-suited to managing the house’s affairs, and Seyona eagerly welcomed her. Unknown to Seyona, Mariska is a marai rakshasa (Bestiary 3) and part of the vanguard for a maharajah’s cult attempting to insinuate itself into the city’s power structure. Mariska has learned only a little about the approaching conjunction from Seyona, but the treacherous apprentice sees the brief merging as an excellent opportunity to quietly eliminate some troublesome elements. She arranged for the invitations to be sent to those she wants removed and smuggled several dandasuka rakshasas (Bestiary 3) and their small army of clockwork golems (Bestiary 3) into the home as her enforcers. Setup
If the PCs inquire about the estate or the event with the locals, everyone agrees that it is one of the most exclusive parties in the city. Prelude
The PCs are greeted by Mariska, who has taken the form of a young Garundi woman in a feathery couatl costume. She directs all guests to their rooms with crisp efficiency. The PCs can meet with other party goers and keep an eye on Aran, who is drunk already, his costume disheveled from a backroom romp. Clockwork spies hidden in the guests’ room overhear any conversations. The setting of the sun marks the beginning of the planar conjunction and slips the PCs into the first of many realms that coexist in layers over the estate, though nothing immediately appears amiss. Doorways, paths, mirrors, shadows, and even changing perspectives can shift the characters through dramatic transformations of their environment. Illusions are harder to disbelieve, and harder still for anyone concealing his or her own identity using a spell, costume, or mask. Anything seems possible. This planar event has a numbing effect on corporeal creatures, dealing periodic Strength damage if the PC fails a fortitude save. The effect becomes stronger and more frequent the further the PCs delve in and the longer they remain. The First Veil
The disguised dandasuka rakshasas position themselves and their golems to strike during dinner, scattering around the grounds to catch any stragglers. Several accidentally slip into other veils. Mariska pulls Seyona aside for a private word, so she can quietly eliminate her. The ringing of the gong for the first course signals the attack. The rakshasa Fenzik leads the dining room attack in costume, disguised as a gnome. Chaos erupts as he charges in, backed up by golems and appearing as a wild-eyed gnome dressed in a phoenix costume. The chairs have been trapped to hold the guests in place and anyone sitting must break free. Fenzik’s golems attempt to seize the guests, driving the illusionary attendees to frenzy as the golems make plain their lack of substance. The PCs can use the confusion to slip away or may stay to defend the other guests. Golems patrol the rest of the estate in force, and any captured guests are herded into the cellar and secured. Evidence of a battle and Seyona’s fate can be found in the library. Many of the texts there also provide encrypted information about the planar event and clues to finding escape. The sealed entrance to the palace’s great spire frustrates all efforts to open it and is heavily guarded. The rakshasa charged with the post bitterly complains about Mariska’s orders. The First Veil functions similarly to the mundane world, but the PCs may notice something amiss when a touch of weakness passes through them, or they catch their reflection in a mirror and see they’ve become slightly transparent. They may witness other fleeing guests suddenly vanish, and if they attempt to leave the grounds or wander in the gardens, they become lost in a sudden sandstorm that leaves them in the Second Veil. Stepping into the darker shadows inside the buildings will strand the PCs in the Third Veil. Reading a certain passage from one of the library’s tomes transports the reader to the Sixth Veil. The Second Veil
Mariska can be found at the oasis, questioning several guests who arrived there. Seyona slipped away from her and without her signet ring to open the great spire, no one is escaping. Mariska freely admits to being Seyona’s apprentice and is deeply saddened that her mistress has apparently gone mad, blaming her teacher for all that’s transpired. Mariska provides information about the planar event and where she thinks Seyona might have gone but also works to hinder and weaken the PCs. She wants them to be easy prey when she betrays them. Mariska makes use of a veiling mirror she stole from Seyona (a new magic item introduced in this module), to conceal her own aura and disguise the appearance and aura of others. The item has other powers to protect against divinations, but they only function for a follower of Sivanah. It has uncanny influence over the living illusions, for whom substance follows form. Reading the twisting runes on one of several buried monoliths provides a passage back to the First Veil, while anyone trying to dig up artifacts or wandering lost in the desert too long falls through a sinkhole into the Third Veil. The Third Veil
A cleric of Zon-Kuthon was trapped here and faded into a living illusion decades ago. He has caught and has been tormenting several fleeing guests. He taunts the PCs to rescue them, letting glimpses slip of their locations and suffering. He may drive guests mad and set them loose on the PCs. The prisoners’ cries for help are magnified by the cavern’s echoes, but one slip in the rush to rescue them might send a character plummeting. Moonlight illuminates a stone calendar and a staircase up to the Fourth Veil. Perceptive characters will notice clues in the shadows cast by the light. Shifting the calendar appropriately brings forth the noonday sun and a path back to the Second Veil. Characters falling into the chasm awaken an hour later in the Sixth Veil. The Fourth Veil
The illusions here engage in contests of wits, duels, games, and other challenges to win secrets from each other. Secrets won are stripped from the loser. Several party guests wander aimlessly here, having lost their own names and identities. The PCs may find Aran here if they haven’t kept a close watch on him, and winning back his name will earn them gratitude and a handsome reward upon escape. The inhabitants here grow more dangerous and insane as the planar alignment progresses, until the challenges and stakes verge on the suicidal. A drunken illusory gynosphinx (Bestiary 1) offers a reward of bottled memories for answering her riddle. Guests and PCs exposed to it becomes lost in nostalgia and return to their senses in the Fifth Veil. The mirrors in the dining room and dance hall show the reflection of events in the First Veil. Touching one of these mirrors shifts the character there. The Fifth Veil
Seyona escaped Mariska’s betrayal and struggled this far but, without her spellbooks or any other resources, she is on the verge of physical and mental collapse. She has been captured by several illusory heretics, who are torturing her when the PCs arrive. If the PCs save her, she proves an invaluable source of information. If they can recover her spellbooks, she can aid them. If Mariska accompanied the PCs, she will advocate killing or leaving Seyona, while Seyona rages at her treachery. If the PCs turn against Mariska, it’s revealed to be a living illusion she imprinted her image on using the veiling mirror. A boon from one of the illusionary clerics may return the PCs to the First Veil when they exit the chapel. Anyone falling into the abyss awakens in the Sixth Veil an hour later. The Sixth Veil
Some windows depict the truth, while others are comforting lies or terrifying visions of fears come alive. Smashing a window allows a character to move through it, though false realities trap the character for a time until he or she realizes the lie. Characters that arrive here from falling in the Third or Fifth Veils are unconscious for an hour and awake weakened. This place saps a character’s strength rapidly. It allows movement to any illusory location in the palace other than the sealed tower. The presence of a greater mystery can be sensed here, but the Seventh Veil lies outside mortal reach. Escape
If the PCs are with Mariska, she ambushes them at the tower door. If her minions don’t quickly dispatch the PCs, she uses the ring to enter the tower and save herself, while her followers unwittingly sacrifice themselves below. If the PCs aren’t quick to chase and confront her, she’ll escape into the city and return another day for revenge. When battling Mariska, if the PCs have managed to learn her true identity and kept theirs hidden, they gain a bonus in combat against her. Mariska uses the veiling mirror to turn the living illusions here into copies of herself to aid her, but will drop it if forced to reveal her true form. Seyona or the PCs can use the mirror to turn the illusions back upon Mariska. Conclusion
When the planar event ends, anyone who drank from the sacred font returns to the physical world. If Seyona lives, she begs the PCs and guests to keep her family’s secret, offering generous rewards. If the PCs assent, the guests they saved follow their lead. Seyona will become a friend and ally and use her contacts to assist them. If they refuse, she takes no hostile action, but she and her home are plunged into scandal, leaving her bitter and looking for someone to blame.
The ruins of Arnem Falls rest on the northwest shore of the lake. Willis Arnem, a wealthy would-be lord from Daggermark, constructed the town in 4703 AR as a base of operations for his planned conquest of the Fells. He made a bargain with Mienka, the nymph who guarded the lake and its surroundings. She told Arnem of an ancient evil sealed beneath the waters of the lake, and agreed to protect the settlement if Arnem made an offering of one item of great worth and beauty every year. Such items exemplified the creative impulse and were anathema to the destructive power below the lake. They would help keep it dormant and locked away. Arnem maintained the pact for five years. The townsfolk dubbed the lake Mienka’s Cauldron after seeing the waters swirl and churn when the offering was made. The settlement prospered, but the fierce resistance of the neighboring troll bands stymied Arnem’s attempts to expand his holdings, and his personal wealth dwindled from hiring increasing numbers of mercenaries. The time came to provide the offering for the sixth year, but Arnem refused. When Mienka threatened to brand him as an oathbreaker, Arnem cut her down and offered her corpse to the lake instead. An unnatural mist immediately began to pour forth where Mienka’s blood touched the water, and faceless monstrosities with the rough form of men emerged from the depths onto the shore. Anyone caught in the mist went mad, and the settlement turned on itself. A fire broke out, devouring most of the town. The area around Arnem Falls has become a poisonous bog. What remains of the settlement is sinking into the marsh. Small bands of goblins and trolls venture through the area, but the swamp is primarily home to oozes, undead, and a tribe of bog nixies. Will-o’-wisps frequent the ruin, and lead naive river travelers on the Sellen to their doom by pretending to be the lights of other ships. Mienka’s ghost lingers around the lake, weeping for the lost beauty of the forest and waters. The mists that blanket the area grow in scope with each passing year and the evil below nears waking. Encounter Setup:
Read the following when the PCs reach the barricade:
The PCs have entered the town’s small central courtyard. The Arnem Falls Inn stands out as relatively intact, with the first and second floors made of sturdy stone. The wooden third floor collapsed under the roof. A barricade fortifies the front door and broken weapons and equipment are scattered around it. The inn was built without windows on the first floor so it could serve as a shelter against raids. Several will-o’-wisps inhabit the upper floors and their light may be seen moving past the windows. Mist fills the area, granting concealment, but a strong wind disperses the mist in its area of effect. A character that moves more than 10 feet above the ground enters the fey mist hazard. The mist clears for anyone higher than 100 feet up. The building is sinking into the bog, filling the interior with mud. Creatures move through the mud at half speed and cannot run or charge. The barricade is haphazard and riddled with gaps wide enough for a tiny creature to fit through. Traversing over it requires a successful Acrobatics or Climb skill check (DC 10). A five foot square section can be cleared with one minute of work. A spiked snare trap is set inside the barricade. Read the following when the PCs enter the common room if they have a light source:
The first floor of the building is fire-blackened stone. The interior is a wreck, with wooden inner walls collapsed and anything of value lost to fire, rotted away, or hidden deep in the filth. The only light, other than any the PCs bring, comes from the broken door. The walls are covered with disconnected ramblings in Aklo, written in charcoal and blood. The bones of Willis Arnem are burnt and scattered against the fireplace. He was attempting to reach the trap door leading to the basement shelter. A DC 30 Perception skill check notices the door. Reduce the DC to 20 if the mud is cleared from that part of the room. Disturbing the bones activates the unfulfilled glories haunt. Sections of the second floor above this room are rotted, with several gaps. Thiefpaper traps have been rigged near the stairs and by the fireplace. All the wooden objects and buildings that survived the fire are rotting and sodden. Treat them as hardness 1 with resist fire 5. Creatures: The town is overrun with thoughtstealer oozes, harbingers of the evil locked beneath the lake. Will-o’-wisps flit around the entire region in great numbers, feeding on the fear the oozes’ victims feel as they lose their minds and lives, and feasting a second time on the frustration and terror of the oozes as their brief consciousness slips away.
Thoughtstealer Ooze (2) CR 5
Haunt:
Hazard:
Traps:
Thiefpaper Trap CR 1
Development: Significant damage to the structure will cause the building to sink deeper into the bog.
Golden pollen motes drift in the sunlight around this dragon, while its scales blend seamlessly with the foliage. Blackwood Drake CR 4
----- Defense -----
----- Offense -----
----- Statistics -----
----- Ecology -----
----- Special Abilities -----
Blackwood drakes are reclusive and territorial, but friendlier than most of their larger cousins. They once nested widely in Andoran, but have been pushed deep into the Verduran Forest by advancing civilization. Their natural pollen rejuvenates plants, but is toxic to other living creatures. Trees around a drake’s lair are gnarled and twisted, resembling humanoids and animals, creating a disquieting grove. Swift, sharp-eyed, and clever, blackwood drakes rely on stealth and harassment, hounding opponents until they flee or succumb to traps and poison. They use overgrowth to guide enemies into snares and deadfalls. Blackwood drakes make defensive compacts with treants and friendly fey, and welcome them in their territory. They grant safe passage to druids of the Wildwood Lodge and may act as local guides if properly flattered and bribed. These creatures live alone or in mated pairs, sometimes with several hatchlings. Newborns mature and leave the nest after a year. Blackwood Drake Nest: Blackwood drakes build elaborate nests in their namesake trees, naturally blending with the surrounding flora. A typical nest can hold up to 10 small creatures. Spotting a nest requires a Perception check opposed by the drake's Craft (nest) check. The approach is guarded by one or more traps.
Everbloom Monk (Monk)
Seer's Soap
A new bar of soap can affect up to 25 square feet of surface before it is expended. It can be applied in smaller amounts, to a minimum of 1 square foot per use. It requires a move action for each square foot affected. Spending a full round action scrubbing with a wet cloth or brush dispels the effect on one square foot of surface. Spells with the water descriptor instantly dispel the effect on any part of the surface they contact. If both sides of a surface were made transparent by scrubbing the soap up and down, both sides are dispelled if either side would be dispelled.
Hi, Is there any official information about Lady Tessa's race or other descriptive traits? I'm running an adventure in the Shackles and I wanted to check before I invented the information. The Isles of the Shackles book isn't out til next March unfortunately. Also, anywhere I can find additional information about Quent and Ollo? Thank you for any help!
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