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I know that in our group were going to continue using the old Dragon #321 firearms rules, they weren't to horrible (especially compared to the pile the new rules are) and we still have a copy or two of that issue that hasn't fell apart yet.

So if anyone can find issue #321 it also has firearm rules.

From a fluff point, Alkenstar have other types of firearms due to the lack of magic (it being non-existent) so they have developed fantastical weapons of war. That said, I think it would be fair to say that they musket and the flintlock pistol are but the tip of deep and dangerous iceberg of destruction.

Just some food for thought for you all to think over.
Please try not to eat me
Nighteyez

I've always maintained the idea that either Alkenstar hides a rather large amount of much more sophisticated firearms for the defence of the country or when when some of the dates for Alkenstar were drawn up they didn't notice how far back they put Alkenstar's exsistence. The Gunworks were founded in 1903AR and they produced Worldbreaker in 2009AR, I could easily see Worldbreaker being a glorified iron tub that chucked a stone ball a middling distance and was more effective as a terror weapon than a cannon.

Then we advance 2441 years and the Gunworks builds the Great Maw of Rovagug and curiously enough it seems to be a developmental sideline to Worldbreaker of ages past, it's a fixed cannon of smaller diameter and interestingly enough it has been fired so infrequently to suggest it's either ceremonial or never worked properly (it's frankly ill-conceived bore size, shell weight, and crew size speaks that there was no idea of how super-large guns operate and the immense crew requirements they need to be fully functional. As it stands Rovagug would have to be firing hollow wooden shells loaded by a crew of Giants for it's statistics to make even a modicum of sense). As of the current date Alkenstar has a single facility with 2809 years of firearms building expertise and the current information would have you believe they're only capable of building 1400's equivalent snaphance and artillery that makes a Parrot Rifle look like a laser cannon.

Now in the rest of Golarion this kind of amazing technological stagnation would make perfect sense due to the presence of magic and gods but Alkenstar has no such recourse and it's populace is forced to rely on their own intellect to defend themselves. As a result I will continue to believe that the current crop of exploding sewer pipes are simply ancient relics or 'export' models Alkenstar sends out to keep the outside world from prying to closely into their industry.

From a rules standpoint I can easily see the reasoning behind making firearms such a dangerous bother of a weapon but it's kind of a mystery given Paizo has dealt with firearms on a much larger scale long ago back in Dragon magazine and those rules while a tad bit wonky seem to have be more functional than the current crop of rules.

Frankly I see the cost of ammunition for firearms to be prohibitive to the point of insanity. Despite the fact the humble sling bullet and the musket ball are very nearly the same thing the musket suffers from a massive inflation of it's ammunition prices. It's especially annoying considering your average sling bullet is very likely going to be made of lead due to it's superior capabilities as ammunition when compared to stone or baked clay.
I can easily see the gunpowder being a rarity in Golarion outside of Alkenstar but I believe the prices should be lowered or the amount per 'dose' increased simply to adhere to reality in even the most vague fashion (as it stands woe betide the player who would want to purchase powder to load a cannon, a lowly 6 pound cannon would likely require over a 1000 gold worth of powder if you go by the 'dose' method). As it stands your average low level Gunslinger is going to be relying on their 'secondary' weapons just as much if not more than their firearms as the extremely prohibitive price of ammunition coupled with their rather wonky rules makes them an unappealing choice in combat.

Truly though I'm not all that surprised the firearms rules are a little wonky given their parent country seems to be a rather illogical jumble of interesting ideas.

I remember the old Die, Vecna, Die! adventure being a fairly good world ender, of course it does have the distinct disadvangtage of being old as dirt at this point, well that and it features everyones favorite old bone pile.
If it wasn't for the fact it does cheapen the experience a little it's not hard to set a world ending adventure in the horrendously distant past, I've always thought that most fantasy worlds end explosively and slowly but surely reset themselves in configurations similar yet different from the time before (they'd almost have to given your average adventurers propensity for destruction and accidental catastrophe).

Currently it's only a brisk -7F here is South Dakota, but the windchill brings it down to -29F. And tonight it should get down to -45F with windchill. Needless to say it's coat and hat weather around here.

Can anyone recommend a decent resource(s) for fantasy-heavy clockwork/constructs/steampunk ideas/adventures/monsters? I'm not interested in Victorian-flavored pulp stuff, more medieval/fantasy/sorcery oriented.

The DragonMech books would be a good source for some rules and information but they do have some annoying flaws (their mechs have no formula for calculating their CR so if you want to use them you have to do some comparing and such to make sure they work correctly). Luckily there was only a handful of Dragonmech books released(three or four) so finding them isn't a hideous task.

The point is that someone who is in to that sort of thing can play that sort of game in Golarion, without adding a nation, and with some background in the Campaign Setting. No less than most others in fact.

But its an out there nation, many won't like it, and its not what paizo are interested in doing anytime soon. But its there. As an option, which is really what Pathfinder is all about.

Unfortunately it's an option that is restricted to home games for the most part. I'm on the idea that it would be nice to leave my own walled off sandbox and play in the worlds sandbox once and a while. And considering that guns are so expensive as to be worthless and rather hobbled ruleswise you would only see guns being used by people who really, really love guns and the idea behind Alkenstar.

Joshua J. Frost wrote:

While guns certainly have their place on Golarion (in Alkenstar) they don't fit the flavor of the rest of the world. So we prefer to keep the Society gun free.

you all are such tease....

I don't get it, but it's your world.

It's always been kind of strange to me that Alkenstar was even put into Golarion, it's this big buffer zone that seems to be destined to be the last documented section of Golarion and seems headed for a life of obscurity in PFS with it's signature weapons being disallowed and the region left to molder in the closet. I know I've had to shoot down a couple people who wanted to make gunslinging brigands from Alkenstar due to firearms noninclusion and the regions void of information.

I think I would truly love to see a book dedicated to Spelljammer-esque adventuring.

I know that there is the website that has the 3.x conversions on it and all that, but with Pathfinder having planets in its system, I'd like to see the Pathfinder Spelljammer.

Of course, I'm sure they can't do it, because Spelljammer isn't open, but something could be figured out.

If Paizo put out a book that detailed more about Golarion's stellar neighbors and methods of getting around I'd likely have a heart attack from all the excitement.

I also have to admit that I'd love to see a set of spell description flashcards, for as much as I loathe 4th edition the power cards are a wonderful idea and similar cards for spells would make it quite a bit easier for new players to understand spells and such (we have a couple new people in our group and reading through the spell list is more than a bit daunting for them), it would also make it much easier for eternally lazy individuals such as my self to simply sort through a flashcard or two than wander through the book.

Selling the same map in the Campaign Setting but rolled up instead of folded. (which I could then get framed)

I'd think that a rolled up map of Golarion or even the Campaign Setting map would be nice rolled up rather then the traditional map folding, I know that my map is one dumb kid away from being individual squares of paper and I would jump for joy if I had a rolled map of heavier material I could wheel around without fear of one 'stupid fingers' kid blowing my map up.

Frankly I feel a table explaining instances where the ACP would apply and where it would be null and void would be an interesting thing to have but would add another layer of complexity that could really overwhelm someone new and could bog down simple tasks by having to look it up in the book. If I had a choice of looking for yet another large table I can never find (my fight with the character wealth by level table is eternal) or simply accepting the occasional unrealistic skill decision I can veto logic for the ease of use.

Also, the idea that a suit of plate armour is going to make an individual so incapable of movement that they'd be unable to right themselves or effectively fight on foot is a surprisingly common misconception.
A complete suit of plate armour can weigh somewhere from fifty to seventy pounds and is fairly evenly distributed across the body, it would certainly be tiring to wear for an entire day but you would still be capable of a wide range of motions and be easily able to fight on foot. A suit of tournament armour on the other hand could be clumsy, heavy, and exceptionally tiring but it was built to impress and protect (you didn't want your showpiece warriors dieing during the festivities).

Rather amazed that this thread is still lumbering along but I have yet to have a problem with the change, in the process of updating a cleric for a Savage Tide run through I simply took the fifth level feat (when the character could logically afford full plate) and continued on like normal, for me it wasn't some archetype destroying change that ruined the cleric for me.

I remember our local DM used to rule that fire arms operated as a ranged touch attack rather than a normal roll, then they had a bit of an advantage over a bow but he did have it so we rolled on a mishap table if you rolled a natural 1.
Also if anyone still has access to Dragon #321 it has an article about firearms on pg.30, notably they mention increasing damage or crit range to represent the guns somewhat erratic damage capability (this makes the firearms rather nasty as they now do 2d6 and 3d6 respectively). I'd like to see firearms actually be useful occasionally as they can be quite entertaining in some settings but most published rules penalize you for even thinking of using them when bows and even crossbows are far superior.

Also on the subject of the technology level in Alkenstar they have a revolver, rifle, and scattergun on the firearms table and they are mentioned as being percussion cap firearms so they could be roughly equivalent to the weapons of the 1850's and 1860's. You could run into anything from single shot muzzle loaders all the way up to breechloading rifles similar to the Kammerlader and the Dreyse needle gun.

Frankly this change doesn't bother me in the least bit, I'll just use a feat to make up for it and still have the improved domains to show for it. It also doesn't hurt that most of the clerics I've played worshiped deities that weren't known for their heavy armour wearing clerics. It also gives a nice distinction to the more martial classes in that they're the only class that can wear heavy armour out of the box so to speak, it also makes the cleric feel like less of a Psuedo-Paladin.
For the the folks who don't like the change they can very easily take one level of fighter, use the faster feat progression and snag the proficiency when they could afford the armour or simply ignore the change and motor along like nothing happened.

I really can't say I'm surprised that the book sold out, and if the enthusiasm in my local area is any indication the second run will probably get wiped out in short order as well. With any luck our FLGS will get it's order of books in so they can be immediately bought out (and so my poor abused beta copies can be put to rest).

If our store doesn't end up getting their books I'll obviously have to lash up a time machine and get my books that way.

American to Canadian translator so now you can speak to your northern neighbors and be understood.

Bah, don't need no translator. I already live close enough to Canada that most folks think our state is part of Canada or is down south (I swear the rest of this nation is full of nitwits, just because the word 'South' is in the name doesn't mean it's down by Texas).

There is an extremely rare chance of a good aligned drow if a PC spellcaster decided to use one of the weirdest spells in 3.5. The Book of Exalted Deeds 'Sanctify the Wicked'. Of course this requires 10,000 gold, and burning a character level but it is a surefire way to make a good drow.
I could see a character using the spell on a drow that did something particularily repugnant to make them suffer the evil they commited due to the fact the spell traps the soul in a gem and then makes it 'reflect' on it's evil, after a year of this they become good. It always struck me as a somewhat cruel spell despite it being one of the 'sanctified' spells.

Outside of incredibly powerful magic, a really weird helmet, or a drow being raised far outside of it's own culture I doubt one could run across a drow that is good, but as we've already seen a neutral aligned drow it certainly possible and that could be as good as you can get normally.

I'd say it was reading through the tail end of Dungeon/Dragon and seeing the adds for Pathfinder. Knowing that the people who wrote those magazines and made some of my favorite shelf collapsing 3.5 books would be producing their own adventures and their own world without creative shackles was enough to hook me.

Currently in a group running through LoF and we just hammered out the first module, it took somewhere in the region of 17-20 hours, of course that doesn't account for the hour of BS'ing every session. Sometimes you have to wear waders it gets so deep...

The FLGS where I live didn't manage to get signed up in time for free day stuff (being on the moon makes him sort of a low priority) but last year he just let us grab whatever we wanted from the assorted things. He does have the advantage of a captive audience seeing as the nearest game store is about a seven hour round trip.
In a way I'm happy I had nothing around rather than having to roll dice and jump through hoops for a few small books.

James Jacobs wrote:

Mikaze wrote:

Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing the major deity coverage get interrupted by a minor deity focus. Like say, Brigh being covered during a Numeria AP.

I've got adventure path plots (and which deities are associated with them) mapped out through the end of the year 2012. We run out of major deities in 2011, IIRC (maybe at the start of 2012), so I actually DO have, tentatively, some of the minor deities already on a schedule for articles.

So, what you are saying is that you won't need any Adventure Paths beyond December 2012?

Well once those Mayan gods come back in their spaceships we'll all be really preoccupied what with the temple building and all.

I suppose I just don't grasp the differences between these different types of cosmoses. To me if a character in one world wanted to travel into the Planescape campaign it wouldn't a big deal.

3.5 or 3.0 Planar Handbook mentions the possibility that one could reach an alternate material plane and it's alternate cosmology via anomalies in the Plane of Shadow or through long forgotten demiplanes(I'm fond of them being Ethergaunt constructs myself). Then when a group of players is a high enough level for planar hijinks they could 'stumble' across a way to hop from setting to setting (like Stargate with swords and magic missiles).

Actually one book I've found that works quite well in my view of Alkenstar is Dragonmech by Goodman Games, the book has a number of classes, class variants, and equipment that would work well in Alkenstar.
There is a coglayer which gets access to 'steampowers' which enable him to build stuff like small clockwork assistants, metal limbs, automated weapons and the such, it can be a wee bit unbalanced at times but it's in such a limited area that you render yourself useless for anything else. I'm really fond of the Steamborg, a person who feels such a bond with technology that he has a steam engine implanted in his body and uses it to power more and more mechanical augments and replacements (although at higher levels they have to make daily will saves or lose their humanity and turn into little more than a mobile Babbage Engines). Of course the book also has giant robots and a single prestige class that bonds you with said robots (giving you the almost certainly unique class features of Paraplegia and Quadriplegia) but that is really out there and only seems plausible in the setting (although the bonded with a robot guy could make for a unique BBEG).