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Gamers tend not to be morning people because they stay up late. Yes, and I wonder why. What drives us to be such night-owls? Also, I'm nearly 30, and I should be regulating my sleep, you are correct...but I am still in college, earning my degree at UW (wooo go Huskies!), so no rest for the grad student...
So, me and my friends were talking about doing a game in the near future, and were trying to consolidate our schedules. While we did finally find a few hours for MTG, we couldn't find anytime for a really RPG sit down. Except with our mornings. Assuming we sleep 8-9 hours, we could actually accommodate 5 hours for gaming. But none of us want to wake up and then game. Does anyone else find this to be true? Is the idea of gaming at dawn awful? Do you game in the morning?
For everyone who had suggestions for how my players can tank better, including builds, tactics, spells, etc., thank you. They've taken it all into consideration. To everyone else, I think we can agree that this thread is another example that Paizo not allowing editing of posts can cause massive tangents, that might be better avoided if I were allowed to edit my first post. My players LOVE a challenge. They aren't mad that I'm having guys ignoring them after missing a few times. In fact, they love it! They were just looking for ways to tank. Oh, and yep, tanking might be a VG term. I don't care. Pathfinder needs tanking mechanics, because they've really focused on combat. Thankfully, books like Ultimate Campaign show that they know this, and are attempting to fight against it. Also, I don't care if you think it's too metagame. We're having have fun. I'm also having fun running more roleplay based games, but when I do that, I use systems better suited towards roleplaying and character development. When we play Pathfinder, we want a mechanical combat system that's fun to get into character with, but not as completely combat focused as, say, 4ED was. Seriously, other than the lack of a tanking class, Pathfinder is awesome for that. So is Iron Heroes, but I like magic too much for Iron Heroes to work for me. Anyways, thanks again for all your suggestions!
Nah, they aren't being trolls. I get where they're coming from; high AC is AWESOME! And, unlike many other things, isn't THAT hard to achieve. A lot of this has a lot to do with how agro and tanking are non-existent in Pathfinder. It's frustrating when every else in the party does well at their roles (Buffer, Debuffer, Talker, DPS, Skill Monkey, Blaster) because the game serves those roles well. But the tank kind of exists in a halfway category. Sure, you can rock your AC and HP, but when it comes to actually drawing enemy attacks, Pathfinder seems to do a poor job. I won't lie, as we talked, 4ed came up. Their Fighter's abilities, right off the bat, do exactly what I'm talking about. "If you don't attack me, I'm going to hit you!" and "If you don't attack me, you get negatives!" While I've offered to make these abilities, which switch over fairly easily, feats, they want to work with what already exists.
Again, if I just 'gave it to them' they'd be all disappointed. They want to build characters that give the enemies a reason to attack them. Not: "Man, you suck DM! Why can't the opponents just attack us!" That's fun, making a build do something you want it to, instead of just being handed the solution.
Just for fun, what level are these characters, and what ARE their ACs? Like I said, 15th. Here is what their sheets say (so, without buffs): Cleric: 40
(And if you're curious) Sorcerer: 21
I forgot to add, my players aren't restricted to pathfinder books.
Party placement is more a problem with the campaign. Wide open spaces and the like, with flying monsters, makes being tactical much harder. A month ago, my problem would have been: How do you get the fighter into the sky? But they solved that one pretty quickly (they pulled a 'reign of fire' by having the fighter ride the eidolon into the sky. It was pretty awesome, and creative!)
The game is well into the 15th level; they ignore most touch attacks and incorporeal attacks. The Alchemist especially. They're also not going up against mindless creatures. We're talking intelligent warlords, who know some advanced protips I'm also not interested in hitting them. And neither are they interested in me inventing ways to hit them. Do you know how BORING it gets for everyone to have someone run up and slam their fists' uselessly against you? Yeah, it's awesome the first few times. Three months later, its boring.
Antagonize, Combat Reflexes, Stand Still have their problems (but that's still pretty cool, thanks!) One requires a good Charisma and lots of skill points (and is useless against a lot of creatures) and the other requires a good Dexterity (which one, the Alchemist, has. I'll mention it to him!)
Well, there you go. My players were laughing their buts off a few months ago when I walked into the room. A few of them had decided to wage an 'AC war' with each other, trying to create builds that would boost their AC. Fast forward a few months. While the Cleric, Alchemist, and Fighter are still amused with their AC war, everybody else (the Summoner, Sorcerer, and dedicated Archer) is a little bummed about it. Why? Because having a high AC is like carrying a great big sign: "IGNORE ME!" Enemies run up to the high AC guys, and miss them, miss them...and then go for the people they know they can hit. What does one do to combat this? As in, what classes, feats, spells, etc grant one the ability to say: Attack me, not them! We thought the Armiger class from Super Genius would be good at doing this, but after reviewing it (mind you, quickly), it seems to only exasperate this problem. Thoughts?
Oh, this kind of looks fun! Let me think, in my game circle: 0 Antipaladin
And that's only in the past three years or so! I'd say that the Advanced Guide really diversified our options; if I added in all the third party and old 3.5 classes, that'd only be about 10 more classes. I'm not surprised by the Antipaladin, no one even wants to play CE, and the Samurai? Can we all agree that class was just a worse version of the Cavalier? I'm sure that is the only reason that class doesn't get any play in my group. As far as alignments, the only alignment that is NEVER played is CE, and I'm sure the evil alignment characters are less than 5 total. Otherwise, its a pretty even spread. As far as races, no one in my group ever plays a halfling or half-elf, followed closely by the half-orc, who has only been played 3 times. Someone always plays a human, a dwarf, and either an elf or gnome, and then something less traditional. Of the less traditional races I've seen played, it has been Tiefling which makes an appearance at least once every-other-game (once, when I offered it up, everyone choose it!), followed by Tengu at about once every three games, and then Dhampire, Changeling, Catfolk, and Undine, all of which are campaign specific, with Carrion Crown for the Dhampire and Changeling, and Skull and Shackles for the Catfolk and Undine. And 3.5 races abound...just kidding. Almost no one plays those in my group anymore. When I used to run 3.5 pirate games, I had a fair share of Hadozee and Darfellan. Just a year ago, when I ran, someone looked through the Dragon Compendium, and I was suddenly over run with 5 Tibbits; it made for a VERY different game.
I'm surprised no one has talked about something like this happening yet. My players went on the hunt for the Cindermaw in last night's game. Once the great beast revealed itself, the party began to buff; no one attacked it. On round one, I had the creature use its fiery breath weapon. I had plans for round two. But they never came to fruition. On round two, the summoner cast Charm Monster; on round one, she had cast Eagle's Splendor upon herself. Now, the Cindermaw already has a poor Will save, but I rolled quite well. Not well enough, however, to save vs. the Summoner's DC; I was off by one (I can't remember the actual DC anymore, but I won't forget the Summoner's player chanting how I missed by 1). Now, the players were just a little higher in level, since their number fluctuates, and they are at 12th level. So, the Cleric, spell slots left empty, prepares Hero's feast, and in due time, they feed the Cindermaw. Then, there was a casting of Fox's Cunning and the like, and they had a average intelligence Cindermaw. Tongues had already been cast, and Diplomacy checks were made. "Did you like your meal? If you did, align with us!" was the general message. They hadn't planned this. They made it up as they went. I was so awed that I let them have it. They subdued the beast for good. They rode the great beast. Just for good measure, each and everyone of the party's members walked in and out of the great beast's gullet for the Truthspeaker's tale. Did I mention that they rode the Cindermaw? They rode the Cindermaw all the way to the Sklar-Quah's encampment. The player's had had enough of chain quests and rituals; they wanted to know how to defeat the B$##& Queen. In no small words did they explain that they had done the impossible. They wanted to know about the Fangs' of Kazavon. Now. The Shoanti had two options really: Tell them, or...don't. I opted for the peaceful option. The players felt for the Shoanti people. I know the book has the respect points averting war; but the players? They kind of want to ride, balls to the wall, back to the city, with a hoard of Shoanti warriors, and bring war to the Queen. I might just let them. They are the Kwisatz Haderach, after all.
I'd almost prefer that. Our modern dedication to some ancient Sumerian/Babylonian time system is ridiculous, yet unavoidable. Why should my fantasy world be held to those same standards? It didn't have an ancient civilization that worshiped the numbers 12 and 60. 100 seconds in a minute.
Or 8. Or something.
Stuff about speed This is the best argument I've seen against this, actually. I spent over 30 minutes trying to take this apart, and I can't, actually. The fastest human on Earth is significantly faster than 17mph, and the average human moves at about 15 MPH (when running). Even running, 10 seconds a round gets you going 10MPH, much too slow. That argument is good enough for me.
The conversation was that it was difficult for my players to make the abstraction leap with rounds only being 6 seconds long. There were a lot of other things flying around (deflecting an parrying being the other one), but this one was the easiest for me to change without thinking about it. Well, clearly, without thinking about it too much anyways.
Some of my players said it helps them better conceptualize their character's actions. We started playing with WEG's DCURPG, which had 10 second rounds. (At least, that's how I remember it!) and it kinda stuck. My players also did the thing where they went outside and tried moving 30 feet in 3 seconds. Even at a very quick pace, it's really hard to do (or maybe we're all just out of shape)! Moving 30 feet in 5 seconds, however, is much easier to do. I liked it as a brain exercise. Kinda like 'what would the world look like as RAW only?'. I didn't see any reason to not to if it helps my players enjoy the game, but I thought I might get some thoughts on it to see what the pitfalls would be.
There was a large discussion with my players about changing rounds to last 10 seconds instead of 6. More like a thought experiment really. I thought that the conversation could be fun here, so I bring it to you to think on, and respond, if you'd like: What happens to Pathfinder's mechanics, balance, etc. when you change rounds to last 10 seconds instead of 6? Is it too powerful? Too restricting? Inconsequential? Could you balance it back? Like making spells last 10 rounds instead of 1 minute?
Oh wow. I never even thought this product was for players; I don't typically follow Paizo's categories, and now that I see 'player companion' I see why people are so irked about this not being enough about Dhampires. I for one really enjoyed all the info on Vamps, and wouldn't say no to one all about lycanthropes, for players or not. BTW, Half-lycanthropes confuse me, as a lycanthrope is already essentially half-a-human, half-a-beast. That said, I did love Eberron's shifters, (my players took to calling them the 'Wolverine' race) and while I'm not sure how you'd do something similar, I'd be interested! In general, I don't like any half-breed races, (even Dhampires, which I enjoy) because none are designed with a mentality of: maybe they slept with, oh, I don't know, a dwarf or an elf! It is always humans only. Alright, I'm going to start rambling, so, shutting up!
*Screams* To:
Too:
You need another O! ADD ANOTHER O! (Or get rid of one, for some of you) The only thing I like different, and I just house-ruled it in, is a feat at every level, more starting HP (we just add the con score at first level) and a +1 to an ability score at every even level that cannot be the same one as the last one. *Walks away*
I realize that my first assessment was a bit off when it comes to Globe of Invulnerability. I was thinking of that spell's level, not the fact that it only works on 4th and lower, meaning a 10th+ level Warlock could override Globe of Invulnerability. Making Eldritch Blasts Supernatural would indeed make them far too powerful.
Paizo published the "Islands" of the Shackles map (as a free-download Pdf) a while ago I missed that! Is this what you are referring to? I am happier than happy to have this; I needn't flesh out North or South. It'll be getting printed quite soon; thank you for pointing it out!
As does any other spell of 3rd level or lower. But once the Warlock reaches 8th level, lesser globe of invulnerability becomes a yawn. Globe of Invulnerability proves to be nasty as well until 14th level, but the problem with this argument is that both spells shut down any spell-caster whose spells are also less than 4th and then 7th level.
I always loved the Warlock, and encourage new players that want to play a magic-user to play one instead of a class that casts spells in a more traditional manner. It was fast and easy to use, and (for the most part) no invocation was a bad choice. As a DM, having seen many a Warlock in my games post pathfinder, I feel that it is on par with Pathfinder's improvements without doing anything other than what Hrothgar suggested. It's the perfect point-and-click, ready out of the box class. Why change anything?
Anything is better than nothing. I'm pretty okay with booty, for example, being just a generic term for 'stuff', as we had difficulty tracking specific items, and the head slap 'duh' moment upon reading the booty rules was...well, a duh moment. Simplification good. Completely ignoring things like consumption, however, seems...odd.
As I reviewed the rules for ship-to-ship combat as I prepared for the second AP, I was shocked to find rules for everything from morale to consumption to miles traveled daily was missing. And the ever so important ship positions. Looking at these rules, well, who needs a Captain? It's a true anarchist pirate ship! No one is in charge here! The mob rules all! Jade Regent had such great rules covering these, and so I wonder, was there such a backlash from people hating them that they were tossed for Skull & Shackles? Meanwhile, this is the part me and mine were looking forward to the most. I had previously ran a pirate game about two years ago in my own game world, and drew out a very large region map on graphing paper that helped the players determine their destination, aprox arrival time, the supplies they thought they'd need, etc, etc. Without those rules or even a large reliable map of the Shackles, I find it hard to motivate my players, and they heartily agree. Who needs to keep track of food? Not us! Has anyone come up with rules to fill in these missing gaps? (I've thought of just using Jade Regent's, where they can apply) Is there a good map of the Shackles that I could present to the players? And lastly, are these rules somewhere that I forgot to look?
My thoughts mainly come from discussions during last years PaizoCon, which discussed how the AP would start differently depending on certain actions taken by the players in RotR, and that the RotR characters would just be 'reset'. I assume that the 'reset' thing was likely the reason that it doesn't tie directly back into RotR.
I just want to make clear, I'm still getting Shattered Star, and it still looks like a lot of fun, but I was thinking of purchasing the RotR anniversary book, rerunning that, and then linking it directly into Shattered Star...but now it sounds like that isn't happening anymore? It's not a direct sequel, but more of spiritual sequel? Waa! Head hurt. What is truth? Do your characters from RotR come into play in Shattered Star? I was super excited because I had been hearing about this AP for so long now, and that we'd be able to reuse the characters from RotR. So...no? Yes? Can I get a definitive answer?
Well crap. My players, instead of being horrified at the keelhull, loved it, and now want to influence Scourge and Plugg. They've been whipped, beaten, etc., and they STILL want to befriend the two main baddies. One of my players got ticked that they just couldn't befriend these guys, saying it was a thinly veiled railroad instead of a sandbox, the inability to side with these two. On a related note, if the players don't act out, and don't screw up, why would Scourge and Pluggs not like them? Especially if the players want to be their little cronies? Did I miss something somewhere?
Nikos paused for a moment, and Richard might have thought that the Invictus leader had hung up, if not for the background noise. Clearly, Nikos was using an older phone, and was covering it with his hand. "Get him down. No, just...yes...yes...yeah...what's he sayi--is he laughing?" The phone became clearer. "I will have to call you back, Mr. Twidwell," Successes needed: 15. Successes so far: 10. As the phone clicked, Richard's phone call to Sam resumed. "That fraking smeghead! He's in the Mountains nearby Pendros, but I can't determine where! The signal is coming from underground...also, I don't know if I can help you on your phone. It's called a razor, and its been magiked. However, looking at the registration numbers and such...I'd bet some serious money on it being Anneliese's, actually. I've already had it sent back to you,"
Here is what Amazon E-mailed be back with:
Take it as you will.
Then might I suggest adding this detail to the class ability? Something stating: When a class ability states that the class's level must be used to calculate the power of the ability, the Taskshaper character acts as if it had half of their Taskshaper levels in the ability's class, but only for the purpose of calculating how the ability works. We had a heck of a time trying to figure out how this ability would work otherwise, because this is not actually stated. Also, if you had levels in the class that has the ability you've imprinted, would it stack with your taskshaper half-level for the purpose of using the taskshaper's 'Imprint class abiltiy'? Would it stack the other way around (Half-Taskshaper levels for making the ability work for the original class)? Could someone imprint themselves using the ability, by looking in a mirror, for example, or would intrinsically know their own 'other' class's abilities for the imprint class ability, or would they have to watch someone else use it? What happens if another Taskshaper uses an ability from imprint class ability; can you imprint it? How about another Taskshaper imprinting another Taskshaper's class ability, assuming they saw it used? Sorry, I really love this class, but it leaves a lot of questions.
I'm having difficulty gauging how Nikos would react to that one, and after days of deliberating, I realized that I like the social combat system for just this reason! Please have Richard make some sort of roll; Nikos's guile is a 3; it acts like defense for social rolls. Depending on what you get will determine how Nikos reacts.
I need a big question answered on this one, in regards to Imprint Class Ability: If I imprint a class ability that gets better as the class gains levels, do I: -Assume that when that class ability says:
-Assume that the class level of the original user is the level that the ability imprints at, and that I can only use it at that imprinted level or half my taskshaper level (or her class level minus three for Improved Imprint Class Ability), whichever is lower? -Assume that the class level of the original user or half my taskshaper level (or her class level minus three for Improved Imprint Class Ability), which ever is lower, is the level that the ability imprints at? Does this question make sense? I can use examples, if you'd like. I've been playing this class for a little while now, and have some observations, but before I make them, I'd like this question answered.
Nuke the table from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. Look. I'm not blind to what is going on, but I cannot authorize that kind of action. I'm sorry. ------- Alright, thanks everyone. Getting alot of the same advice here, so I'll take it, but he isn't the type to take criticism well at all, so I see this exploding, but honestly? His behavior isn't anything new, we just haven't gamed with him in over 4 years. Now I see why...
Really, i would say take a break from running games enough time he knows your having a break then resume and do not invite him. But if you have alot of friends in common this will not work well. Yeah, I thought of that, but he is really tied into my group of friends, and is even one of the other player's boss. He'd know.
Ugh. I finally have a problem I don't know how to tackle. I have a best friend whose behavior at the gaming table has turned for the worst. Cheating, questioning the rules, insulting the players and the GM, mocking the adventure, the system, and even our minis and dice. Add on to that that he is as stubborn as a mule and NEVER listens to input or criticism, and you're dealing with a horrible gamer. But he was the best man at my wedding! It would cause a huge rift if I asked him to NEVER, EVER, come to ANY game EVER again. But no one wants him there. Help?
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