Rite Publishing |
Thanks for taking the time to do a review of the product Dark Mistress.
I would like to say that this is just a class and not a race class combo. Any race can learn to become a taskshaper. Sorry if that was not clear,
Did you have any suggestions on improving the product? I felt the real drawback to it is that perhaps I did not do as much fluff as I usually do for a race, but then the format for pathfinder introducing new classes does not allow for a lot.
Steve Russell
Rite Publishing
Dark_Mistress |
It's just a class? Oh... well the fluff as written made me think it was a combo. It talks about stealing children and taking them to the land of fey and changing them. So I by that I thought they was both like the giants and gargoyles books where.
As for improving it? Well I think a few things I would have done had I done it is.
1) Make some of their minor abilities at will abilities at higher levels. Especially things like alter self at the higher levels. Or if not at will then usable X number of times a day. Though that would be more resource management.
2) I think it might be a little bit resource math heavy. I mean you have 2 different power pools of points, 3 different types of powers. two using the same power pool but at different costs, one costing one point and the other two points. Yet you can convert one pool to the other with one of the abilities. I just seeing that as possible being hard to keep track of and easy to confuse people with.
3) I think it is maybe a bit to focused on shape changing. Since they are fey created maybe giving them a few few like abilities would have helped.
Don't get me wrong, it is good. I just feel it could have been better.
Rite Publishing |
Well the pool framework is entirely based on the Time Thief (its almost exactly the same) and is why its dedicated to Owen.
Taking it away from shapechanging and going spell-like I was worried that would be stepping on the druid's toes. The idea was to be a shape for any task :)
You can of course imitate a monsters supernatural ability to do something close to spell-like.
Dark_Mistress |
I wasn't suggesting taking it all away, only make a few of them spell like abilities.
Yes I was aware of the similarities to the time thief. It was doing a one shot game with one that made me notice the amount of book keeping it took.
Plus this is just my personal view. From the fluff perhaps made me think more fey and less just shape shifter.
Rite Publishing |
Impersonate: is for the duration of the impersonation
Imprint Class Ability: "that could be performed as a single action ".
Improved Imprint Feat: "For one round" .
Improved Imprint Skill: "for one skill check".
Improved Modified Advantage: "to any single d20 roll"
Instant Armor: "for one minute per class level,"
Mimic Defense: until you select a different condition to defend against.
Shaped attack: until you select a different natural attack
Shaped Resistance: until you select a different energy type.
Venners |
Really like this product. I was looking for a Chameleon/Shape-changer and this seems to fit the bill.
A couple of questions however - the way I read it, the Change Shape ability functions exactly like the spells as far as duration go - is that right? From Dark Mistress' comments about making the lower level ones at will abilities I think I have interpreted it correctly.
I would like to see lengthier possibilities for the shape change - about an hour a level as Wild Shape would be ideal. Perhaps a Shaped Capacity to increase the length of your Shape-Changing? Or equivalents to Extend Spell and Persist Spell? It is very hard to infiltrate the bad guys temple disguised as a bugbear servant in only one minute per level, plus I really like the idea of playing in animal shape most of the time.
I've also been looking at the Bestial Druid from Kobold Quarterly, which is excellent as well albeit, it only does shape-changing. This class has a lot more flexibility.
While I'm making a Wish List, it would be good to be able to retain an imprinted feat for longer as well - whilst you can imprint Track or Trapfinding using this, you will soon run out of Moments of Change, and then you have used all your options for the day. Obviously, Imprinting say Master Craftsman and the relevant skill would be awesome too, though that may be a little too much.
Anyway, that's just my two bob. Great Product, and I'll be looking carefully at all Rite's releases in the future.
Rite Publishing |
The duration can be extending by spending additional moments of change and the upper abilities do allow you to get additional moments of change.
I hope at some point things slow down so a lot of the input and playtest reports I am getting now, can be added to an updated version of the class.
Thanks for the review End. I think where it falls down is that it used the class format and not the racial format of previous ideas. Realy folks its not a race its a class you could be any race and be a Taskshaper.
I think in the future if I do more classes I am going to go beyond the standard and give more than want the standard class description from pathfinder gives.
Dark_Mistress |
The duration can be extending by spending additional moments of change and the upper abilities do allow you to get additional moments of change.
I hope at some point things slow down so a lot of the input and playtest reports I am getting now, can be added to an updated version of the class.
Thanks for the review End. I think where it falls down is that it used the class format and not the racial format of previous ideas. Realy folks its not a race its a class you could be any race and be a Taskshaper.
I think in the future if I do more classes I am going to go beyond the standard and give more than want the standard class description from pathfinder gives.
it's the fluff the fluff made it sound like a race. :)
Goblins Eighty-Five |
I need a big question answered on this one, in regards to Imprint Class Ability:
If I imprint a class ability that gets better as the class gains levels, do I:
-Assume that when that class ability says:
"at the (the class that grants the ability)'s x level, the ability increases by +y" and "the DC is equal to (it lists a number) plus the character's level in (the class that grants the ability)"
And other such examples, that I replace the class that grants the ability with Taskshaper (at half level, or her class level minus three for Improved Imprint Class Ability)?
-Assume that the class level of the original user is the level that the ability imprints at, and that I can only use it at that imprinted level or half my taskshaper level (or her class level minus three for Improved Imprint Class Ability), whichever is lower?
-Assume that the class level of the original user or half my taskshaper level (or her class level minus three for Improved Imprint Class Ability), which ever is lower, is the level that the ability imprints at?
Does this question make sense? I can use examples, if you'd like. I've been playing this class for a little while now, and have some observations, but before I make them, I'd like this question answered.
Rite Publishing |
I need a big question answered on this one, in regards to Imprint Class Ability:
If I imprint a class ability that gets better as the class gains levels, do I:
You calculate all variables via half your taskshaper class level (or -3 with improved imprint class ability)
So for your a second level taskshaper having just taken the Imprint class abiltiy you have see your paladin ally use smite evil and make the percception check to imprint it, you then spend a mote of chance to activte the ability and add your cha modifer to your attack roll and add +1 to your damage (half your taskshaper level).
The same would be true for a DC calculation that looked like 10 +1/2 your cleric class level + your char modifier would be 10 + 1/4 your taskshaper class level + your wisdom modifier.
Your a jack of all trades not a master of all trades.
Goblins Eighty-Five |
Then might I suggest adding this detail to the class ability? Something stating:
When a class ability states that the class's level must be used to calculate the power of the ability, the Taskshaper character acts as if it had half of their Taskshaper levels in the ability's class, but only for the purpose of calculating how the ability works.
We had a heck of a time trying to figure out how this ability would work otherwise, because this is not actually stated.
Also, if you had levels in the class that has the ability you've imprinted, would it stack with your taskshaper half-level for the purpose of using the taskshaper's 'Imprint class abiltiy'? Would it stack the other way around (Half-Taskshaper levels for making the ability work for the original class)? Could someone imprint themselves using the ability, by looking in a mirror, for example, or would intrinsically know their own 'other' class's abilities for the imprint class ability, or would they have to watch someone else use it? What happens if another Taskshaper uses an ability from imprint class ability; can you imprint it? How about another Taskshaper imprinting another Taskshaper's class ability, assuming they saw it used?
Sorry, I really love this class, but it leaves a lot of questions.
duskwolf |
I have a few questions about how the imprint class ability class ability works.
First, lets say my character imprints smite evil and uses it on an evil target. How long does the smite evil effect last, is it just for that round or is it the same duration as the paladin ability, also how many times per day could I use smite evil.
Secondly, can my taskshaper imprint a passive class ability that he has seen and suceeded on his perception check on. For instance could he imprint woodland stride.
Lastly, if my taskshaper imprints rage, as the barbarian ability, how long does that last.
Rite Publishing |
I have a few questions about how the imprint class ability class ability works.
First, lets say my character imprints smite evil and uses it on an evil target. How long does the smite evil effect last, is it just for that round or is it the same duration as the paladin ability, also how many times per day could I use smite evil.
It lasts for the duration the ability is listed for based on you being "half her class level" so if your an 8th level taskshaper and the ability lasts 1 round per class level it lasts 4 rounds.
Its based on both how many times a day the class ability can be used by a character "equal to half her class level" plus each use costs a moment of change.
Secondly, can my taskshaper imprint a passive class ability that he has seen and suceeded on his perception check on. For instance could he imprint woodland stride.
you can only emulate an abiltiy that can be performed as one action. So you could not emulate a constant ability.
Lastly, if my taskshaper imprints rage, as the barbarian ability, how long does that last.
again based on "half her class level" so so if your an 8th level taskshaper and the ability lasts 1 round per class level it lasts 4 rounds.
Rite Publishing |
Thanks for the prompt reply : ).
I have one more question, can a taskshaper learn an ability that is used as part of an action. Such as sneak attack for instance, or the rogue talent positioning strike.
Thx in advance.
Yes. though again it would sneak attack would be at half her class level and each time you attempted to perform a sneak attack you would need to spend a moment of change.
Monkeygod |
For the Improved Imprint Feat ability, it sounds like you trade in two feats you currently posses in order to use one feat you do not.
Eg, I have Improved Initiative and Weapon Finesse, I could trade both of them in for say Dodge.
Is that right? If so, it doesn't seem like such a great ability for an improved version, even if the number of feats you can choose is increased a bit.
Rite Publishing |
How many abilities/feats/whatever can I imprint? Is there an upper limit, or is it just "as many as I've made the roll for, bookkeeping ho"?
There is no upper limit the same way there is no upper limit to a wizard's spellbooks.
the usage limit is based on how many moments of change you can use in a round (max 2) with improved imprint feat, you could therefore switch out a maximum of 4 feats for 1 round. So you could spring attack, if you had a dex of 13.
McWitchin |
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I just got this the other day, and I'm excited to play one, but I also had a few questions...
1. On Imprint Class Ability, do you have to pick your class abilities even before you gain this ability? For example, if I've played a taskshaper since level 1, but I wait until level 6 to pick Imprint Class Ability as a shaped capacity, I would have needed to keep up with 4 abilities from character creation, plus any I've seen?
2. For that matter, can I witness Class Abilities and imprint them before I have Imprint Class Ability as a shaped capacity?
3. How do class resources work? For example, if I imprint a Barbarians Rage ability at 2nd level, it can last up to 4 + Con rounds (that being the daily allotment of rage. If I use up all these rounds, and I re-imprint Rage, does it fail, or do I have another 4 + Con rounds?
4. Flavor wise, what happens if you imprint an Alchemists Bomb ability? Are you growing explosive organs to throw? Because that would be awesome.
5. Can you imprint class abilities you already possess? I've seen comments about imprinting Ability Shift to gain essentially limitless moments of change (though I'm guessing that could potentially be fixed by the ruling on question #3).
6. Assuming you possess Master of Shapes, is there anything stopping you from imprinting the same class feature twice? I didn't see anything explicitly, and maybe there's something in the core rules, but I wasn't sure. This seems like it is another cheesy way to break the class.
7. Are the natural attacks granted by Shaped attack primary or secondary?
8. Do all the advanced shapes cost 2 moments of change? The description only says "many" but no abilities have a cost listed. I'm also guessing that Master of Shapes is passive, and has no cost.
9. Do you gain any knowledge the creature has when using Become the Mask or is it just very strong personality? For example, a nefarious murderer cuts a poor villagers throat, and escapes. A taskshaper stumbles onto the scene, and touches the villager before they die, but they die before revealing who killed them. If the taskshaper uses Become the Mask, can the villager persona reveal who killed him?
10. Is the DC for keeping control on Become the Mask meant to get harder with your stats? Anytime I use it, I should dump any +CHA gear for +WIS?
...that's all I can think of for now.
Rite Publishing |
1. On Imprint Class Ability, do you have to pick your class abilities even before you gain this ability? For example, if I've played a taskshaper since level 1, but I wait until level 6 to pick Imprint Class Ability as a shaped capacity, I would have needed to keep up with 4 abilities from character creation, plus any I've seen?
You pick and start keeping track once you have the ability.
2. For that matter, can I witness Class Abilities and imprint them before I have Imprint Class Ability as a shaped capacity?
No.
3. How do class resources work? For example, if I imprint a Barbarians Rage ability at 2nd level, it can last up to 4 + Con rounds (that being the daily allotment of rage. If I use up all these rounds, and I re-imprint Rage, does it fail, or do I have another 4 + Con rounds?
It fails.
4. Flavor wise, what happens if you imprint an Alchemists Bomb ability? Are you growing explosive organs to throw? Because that would be awesome.
The flavor is up to the player (and the adjudication of the GM), but remember the taskshaper is meant to let you keep your disguise as a actual member of that class so what you should be doing is putting your hand in your bag and pulling out some air that you polymorphed into a alchemist's bomb so you maintain your disguise.
5. Can you imprint class abilities you already possess? I've seen comments about imprinting Ability Shift to gain essentially limitless moments of change (though I'm guessing that could potentially be fixed by the ruling on question #3).
Yes but see rule 3, its not an exploit so doing so is useless.
6. Assuming you possess Master of Shapes, is there anything stopping you from imprinting the same class feature twice? I didn't see anything explicitly, and maybe there's something in the core rules, but I wasn't sure. This seems like it is another cheesy way to break the class.
Yes but see rule 3, its not an exploit so doing so is useless, and remember bonuses from the same source don't stack.
7. Are the natural attacks granted by Shaped attack primary or secondary?
You get one primary and all other's are secondary
8. Do all the advanced shapes cost 2 moments of change? The description only says "many" but no abilities have a cost listed. I'm also guessing that Master of Shapes is passive, and has no cost.
yes but I am out of town right now and don't have access tot he manscript, so I need to double check that.
9. Do you gain any knowledge the creature has when using Become the Mask or is it just very strong personality? For example, a nefarious murderer cuts a poor villagers throat, and escapes. A taskshaper stumbles onto the scene, and touches the villager before they die, but they die before revealing who killed them. If the taskshaper uses Become the Mask, can the villager persona reveal who killed him?
You get all its knowledge, but remember you can do the same thing with speak with dead which is a 5th level ability, and this is a 10th level ability, if your running a murder mystery at that level you should have destroyed the body anyway.
10. Is the DC for keeping control on Become the Mask meant to get harder with your stats? Anytime I use it, I should dump any +CHA gear for +WIS?
Its the effective nature of a Cha based saves. With or without gear, your DC will higher than your save because your save is equal to 1d20+ 1/3 your tashshaper level + your Wis modifer, and your DC is 10 +1/2 your taskshaper level + your Cha modifer, and I expect as a taskshaper and your focus on disguise is going to make your base Cha higher than your Wis, of course your bonuses goes back to being temporary bonuses for 24 hours if you do this but sure you can be a munchkin and do this.
Artemis Moonstar |
Quick question I need clarified before I let this class be used in a 1 on 1 campaign.
Change Shape acts as Alter Self, and Perfect Copy lets someone perfectly copy an individual.
What point then is there to the Impersonate ability? Is the Taskshaper supposed to be able to auto-success with anyone who happens to see or know this specific individual?
Edit: In that regard, might I suggest actually putting whatever bonus you get for changing your shape to a specific individual in the Perfect Copy ability? Perhaps +10 circumstance bonus like the Kitsune's "Realistic Likeness" feat? Perhaps allow Impersonate's circumstance to stack with it?
Seism |
First of all I love this class. by far and away. It's beautifully well done.
I have a question about this class.
When they shapeshift do you treat their armour like a druid wildshaping?
AS in it changed with them and becomes part of their form or resizes to fit their new form and it retains all their bonuses aside from their armour bonuses.
Going to start a game with a TS (So excited!) within a week so keen to find out.
Thanks in advance.
Rite Publishing |
"This ability functions as the alter self spell... This
ability emulates additional spells based on your class level"
All of the listed spells have the Polymorph subschool, so they follow all of the rules for the polymorph subschool. (This was done on purpose).
Also the class was updated in The Secrets of Adventuring with all the various feats and magic items and corrected some balance and wording issues.
BC4Realz |
I am looking at playing a Taskshaper in a PbP. Planning on buying the Secrets of Adventuring PDF if my submission is accepted for the game, but until then working with the SRD to try to get the mechanics set in my head.
All that said, I have a question about basic and improved versions of imprint feat and imprint class ability...
So the basic versions both read "can only select a list of _____ from the Pathfinder®Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook (TM) equal to 3+ her class level."
Both of the improved versions read "the taskshaper is still limited to the list ____ she can emulate, though this list increases by 3 + her Charisma modifier."
It seems like this could actually reduce the number that you know without having witnessed because it no longer scales with class.
If I am understanding correctly (which I might not be) when I level I gain an additional known feat from the Core set of rules in the same way a wizard gains some spells known (because my class level went up).
But then when I take the improved versions, as written, this scaling by class stops happening...I think.
Am I understanding the rules wrong, or should the improved versions read "increases to 3 + her class level + her charisma modifier"?
Thank you for the clarification. I love that we have access to the publisher for FAQ stuff like this.