Campaign Advise - What Books to Use / Allow


Advice

Dark Archive

All Core, Base, and Hybrid classes are permitted except the Alchemist, for reasons detailed later. The Investigator becomes a half caster after that of the Bard while all spellcasting classes must take the appropriate Sphere archetype*.

 
Books That Will be Used/Allowed
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Paizo: Pathfinder Core Rulebook, Advanced Player's Guide, Advanced Class Guide, Pathfinder Unchained, Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Combat, Ultimate Campaign
Silver Games LLC: Ponyfinder Campaign Setting, Ponyfinder: Forgotten Past, Tribes of Everglow, Griffons of Everglow
Drop Dead Studios: Spheres of Power, Spheres of Power: Expanded Options, Rogue Glory
Everyman Gaming: Leadership Handbook, Physiological Handbook, Everyman Unchained: Monk Archetypes I & II, Everyman Unchained: Skills and Options, Everyman Unchained: Unchained Rage
Rogue Genius Games: The Genius Guide to Variant Multiclassing Rules, Ultimate Options - Minor & Major Drawbacks, The Genius Guide to the Talented Barbarian, The Genius Guide to the Talented Cavalier, The Genius Guide to the Talented Fighter, The Genius Guide to the Talented Ranger
Geek Industrial Complex: Companions of the Firmament (For flying, falling, and weather mechanics & themes/ideas)
Alluria Publishing: Cerulean Seas Campaign Setting (For underwater mechanics & themes/ideas)
Kobold Press: Southlands Campaign Setting (For plains, jungle, and desert mechanics & themes/ideas)
 
*All spellcasting as it was will be eliminated and replaced with the Spheres system through the appropriate archetypes from the Spheres of Power books, at least as far as PCs and NPCs are concerned.
Monsters may be a bit of a challenge but I will deal with that as it comes, magic weapons and equipment may likely also see change. Again I will deal with that as it comes.
 
Lastly as there is, as of yet, no 'Alchemy' Sphere or an Archetype that could allow for the Alchemist to work for Speheres of Power... this class will be completely unavailable in my campaign. The Investigator will still be available by way of a custom archetype made by myself in which the class is given access to spheres instead of alchemy, becoming a Mid-Caster.
 
I also have a Spheres of Power homebrew conversion for Prestige Classes.


Normally, this is where people ask questions. Did you have a question?

Dark Archive

Sighs, okay then here are the questions:
Which books should I allow or use?
Which of the above books, for those that others have used, are good or may need some work/attention.
Is anything above have glitches or problems that could disrupt the campaign or have issues that have cropped up through use?


If you're allowing all of that 3PP why not DSP material like Path of War?

Dark Archive

Well, I have considered Path of War but the Endzeitgeist has pointed out there are some broken mechanics and that the book has in places carried over the less then best aspects of The Book of Nine Swords... I have come to respect and often agree with their reviews. ^^;

Dark Archive

Still... I may just allow it because I do like many things from Path of War, and it would farther shrink the gap between martial and spellcaster.

I would just nee to trust that my players don't abuse mechanics or exploit the system, whether because of Path of War or from Paizo and the 3PP products I would allow.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
JonathonWilder wrote:

Sighs, okay then here are the questions:

Which books should I allow or use?
Which of the above books, for those that others have used, are good or may need some work/attention.
Is anything above have glitches or problems that could disrupt the campaign or have issues that have cropped up through use?

Your game is too far from the norm to give advice for comparison. Study the material you're going to use, make sure you're comfortable with it, and look for any unplanned consequences of synnergistic reaction from having multiple rulesets from authors who know nothing of each other.


I usually take the opposite approach. Instead of a list of books allowed I have a list of stuff I don’t use. The only exception is that I have to own the book. If I own the book and I have not restricted it, it is fair game. This does not include optional rules. This prevents such things as building your own race, or other questionable things. Any optional rules I use will be stated.

Scarab Sages

For some fantastic additional plans/themes books in line with what you've got: Frog God Games' Dunes of Desolation (for desert) and Fields of Blood (for plains) would be great additions. Also Raging Swan's various "Miscellany" books are great for the same reason.

I notice that you hold Endzeitgeist's reviews in high regard and he has given exemplary reviews to each of these.

Dark Archive

@LazarX
Thanks for the advice, that was something I planned on doing. I am already working on getting the PDFs of each of the above books, in some cases the physical copy when I can afford it, and will be going through each in more detail as time goes on. Admittingly, in many cases, I will have to see the rules in action myself or I am just theorycrafting.
My plan is to keep the rules that help advance the campaign, are enjoyed by both myself and my players, while putting aside the rules that don't work or hinder the roleplay.
There is one conflict I have already found, which is the The Genius Guide to Variant Multiclassing Rules with the Spheres of Power. In the first it offers 'dedicated multiclassing rules' which offer spells and spell-like abilities. My plan for now is to have this instead give an extra sphere talent instead each time it comes up, see how that works.

@Mysterious Stranger
Far enough and I may do that. If I only allow the books I actually own and offer to my players. Though honestly the list of what I wouldn't allow my well be longer, or only come up if the book is brought to my attention.
Admittingly, I am also the sort of DM willing to consider anything that may improve the game or allow a player to replay the character they want if it isn't overpowered.

@Duiler
I'll look into Dunes of Desolation and Fields of Blood, as well as the reviews by Endzeitgeist. The Miscellany looks may also be something to add. Thanks for the suggestions. ^^
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I did have plans to perhaps create a Resource Doc on the game mechanics I will allow from different books, something I can give to my players so I don't have to give them a copy of the PDFs. This would also help when it comes to streamlining the mechanics and having everything work together well. Would perhaps be especially helpful when doing an online campaign.

I also plan on using the Pathfinder Complete Compilation Books of Feats, Spells, Classes


I am unfamiliar with spheres of power. I don't even know which book it's in. If one of your prospective players is similarly uninformed, you should let them become more familiar with it. They must be familiar with it before they can suggest or even gift a copy of the book.

You should also decide what, if any, homebrew materials you, as the GM, are going to use. I don't know if you can use the ritual system I am working on. Since Alchemy is out, so are permanent mutations. I don't know if Ooglers or Beholders would work because some eye beams might be without a sphere of power.

You should check to see what bloodlines and Oracle curses would not work with that.


You don't need to mess with spell-like abilities in the sphere system. They can still function as they always have. Also you really should look into it if you haven't heard of it. Fantastic system. Been using it for my main campaign for the last three months and doubt I'll ever run Pathfinder without it again given the choice.

Anyway, the list looks pretty good. I don't have experience with them all but the ones I do are good choices. Saying you are using pathfinder unchained is a bit vague though as it has literally dozens of systems, many of which overlap with each other.

If you're looking for class options I recommend the ones by Interjection Games. I use a number of them alongside the spherecasting system for a taste of something different (truenaming, maestro, and ethermagic).


Dreamscarred Press has AMAZING quality. I highly recommend Path of War. There's nothing in there that remotely touches what full casters can do in PF, instead the options are fun and amazing for fighty types. Their Psionic rules are sweet as well.


There's a nice, free pdf on comprehensive rules for lava you should definitely use. It's sold here on Paizo.


Let me try again. What is your goal?

Because more options does not automatically mean better game. For starters, it makes character creation slower, and the number of combinations goes up exponentially. There' say excellent chance that with enough time, you can create an unbeatable combo with weapon x, prestige class Y, and archetype z.

But more importantly, what kind of feedback are you expecting? If you want gritty realism, then encumbrance rules might make sense. For high fantasy, just give everyone magic bread and be done with it.

The best advice I could give you, without knowing your goal, is to say 'play the game the way I do'. And that' snot terribly good advice.


https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1708940685/spheres-of-power-a-new-path finder-magic-system/description

Spheres of Power..

I searched it, and from the look of it, you could build an alchemist with a physical transformation sphere, or a blaster. I will know more when I can invest 10 dollars for a PDF and a few extras. It's a lot like a game I tried to create, CAPAG. A magic user would get a magic power that grew more powerful as they went up levels. At so many levels(I forget if it was 3rd or fifth) they could select another power and combine them in interesting ways. With fire and growth they could make the fire elemental bigger.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If you are GMing and planning a campaign for the first time, I would suggest going with these words of wisdom.

"Less is More".

Don't ask what your players want to use. You decide how much you're going to stuff your toolkit. Think like a sculptor. That's an artist which achieves a goal by chipping away what's not absolutely needed.


I'll address your list one at a time, in reverse order.

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Kobold Press: Southlands Campaign Setting (For plains, jungle, and desert mechanics & themes/ideas)

I do not have Southlands, so I can't comment on it. However, if you want to play an inter-planar game, I recommend Dark Roads and Golden Hells.

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Alluria Publishing: Cerulean Seas Campaign Setting (For underwater mechanics & themes/ideas)

This choice is solid, there aren't really any issues to watch out for.

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Geek Industrial Complex: Companions of the Firmament (For flying, falling, and weather mechanics & themes/ideas)

I don't have anything from this company, so I can't really comment.

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Rogue Genius Games: The Genius Guide to Variant Multiclassing Rules, Ultimate Options - Minor & Major Drawbacks, The Genius Guide to the Talented Barbarian, The Genius Guide to the Talented Cavalier, The Genius Guide to the Talented Fighter, The Genius Guide to the Talented Ranger

Beware of the major drawbacks, as some of them are rather easy to bypass to get a mostly-free feat. Otherwise, this list looks good.

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Everyman Gaming: Leadership Handbook, Physiological Handbook, Everyman Unchained: Monk Archetypes I & II, Everyman Unchained: Skills and Options, Everyman Unchained: Unchained Rage

Physiological Combat and Leadership Handbook were both massively revised, expanded, and compiled in Eeveryman's Ultimate Charisma, released less than a month ago. If you plan on making heavy use of either of them, it would probably be worth 'upgrading' to Ultimate Charisma instead.

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Drop Dead Studios: Spheres of Power, Spheres of Power: Expanded Options, Rogue Glory

These are all solid choices.

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Silver Games LLC: Ponyfinder Campaign Setting, Ponyfinder: Forgotten Past, Tribes of Everglow, Griffons of Everglow

In spite of its popularity, I own none of the Ponyfinder books, so I can't really comment on them.

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Paizo: Pathfinder Core Rulebook, Advanced Player's Guide, Advanced Class Guide, Pathfinder Unchained, Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Combat, Ultimate Campaign

As usual, these books are the ones you need to be careful with. The writers put no thought whatsoever into anything resembling game balance. If you plan on using the spells sections from any of these books, I'd recommend starting with a ban-list of core spells, and approving spells from Ultimate Combat, Ultimate Magic, Advanced Player's Guide, and ACG on a case-by-case basis.

However, you appear to have side-stepped the issue of game-breaking spells by using Spheres of Power instead. If any of your players are beginners, you'll want to warn them about 'trap archetypes' like crossbowman fighter which are almost straight power-downs.
You'll also want to beware of a handful of magic items. The most notorious is Dust of Sneezing and Choking (from the Core Rulebook).
Otherwise, if you are making everyone use SoP, you should be in good shape.

Aside from what's on your list, if you want more classes, Strange Magic has some of the most fun and best written classes in the game that I know of. You don't need more classes, though, if you don't want them. If you want more races, the In the Company of series is a good place to look. Again, though, you don't need more race; only look to In the Company of if you want more.


Most of Pathfinders problems are inherited.
Fortunately, instead of using the brain damaging armor spike rules, they backed off of armor spikes entirely.

Dark Archive

@137ben and others
Companions of the Firmament (I own this product) is the only product, a kickstarter, by Geek Industrial Complex though if you like or want to include flying in your campaign that isn't clunky or unbalanced there is no better book to have... actually offering rules that turn the battle grid into a 3D environment and with the expanded rules for falling offering risks or challenges to using flight.

Southlands and Cerulean Seas Campaign Setting I do not yet own, though the latter comes highly recommended by Endzeitgeist if you plan on taking your campaign underwater. I admit without reading through Southlands I won't know for certain if it is what I am looking for, so Dunes of Desolation may well be a partial replacement for such (when considering deserts).

On Ultimate Options - Minor & Major Drawbacks, I had not considered there was ways around the penalties so I will keep that in mind or even put aside that book (I own this product, as do the other Rogue Games books listed and more).

I did not know that Leadership Handbook and Physiological Handbook had be updated into the Ultimate Charisma. I will defiantly upgrade and by the book (as a PDF most likely) when I have the extra money. Thanks for that. I am debating whether or not I should allow Rogue Glory or Talented Rogue to my players. I decided on the former because I can combine it with Unchained Rogue and all the archetypes work for it, allowing more options I feel.

On Spheres of Powers, that is largely why I picked them because it takes out the hassle of figuring out which spells are balanced and which should or should not be allowed. It also helps shrink the gap between casters and marital combatants, I may yet consider Path of War to farther bring classes in line with each other.

The Silver Games LLC books are listed because one of my campaigns being Ponyfinder, thus they are required products. I suspected though that many here would not know much if anything about them, thus couldn't give advise on them.

I will note that there are races that can fly at first level, 30 ft and with clumsy maneuverability, with feats that increase speed and maneuverability. The creator has a view on flying races which I agree with, that they are not something that has to be a problem and can work. I never agreed with the idea that flying should only be allowed at higher levels.

On paizo products, I am both surpassed yet not so on what you have said. I understand how they haven't always made the best choices and have brought our broken s$@!. Heck I am not a fan of Pathfinder Society Organized Play, feeling it encourages a game I would not want to play or run. Spells are always a difficult thing to balance, as I feel perhaps casters with other classes. Many archetypes are not something one wants or are really any good... in some ways it can be a mess and require strong and sound judgement to know what or if you should use what is put out.

Thoerycrafters and minimaxers I feel do not help the problem, nor to the focus on combat over other aspects of a roleplaying game but that is just my option. Yet I plan on doing my best in putting together campaigns the way I feel work and that others enjoy, though for that to work a degree of complexity is required.

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