Dud Muffin's page

I want to start by saying I appreciate everyone taking the time to respond to my build. I feel like often when builds are posted, people feel entitled/obligated to poo-poo character choices, nitpick legality or criticize without offering alternatives or ways to improve the character. Thank you all for doing none of those things and providing useful, insightful feedback.

*And While I'm at it, considerable debate on bladed brush and the magus. There's just considerable debate on doing anything with the bladed brush feat if you haven't noticed ;)

Hahaha. I have noticed! If there are any particularly relevant or illuminating discussions on these boards I should pass along, please let me know. I wouldn't want my GM working with inadequate information.

Agile weapons also exist should you want to save feats and do a +1 agile weapon with bladed brush. And at that high a level it is affordable. Also, does not come with the arguements of does X feat work with bladed brush.

All good points. I tried cramming everything I want into a single-class Magus and I was short two feats. I think if I went that route, I'd need to switch up to a STR-based build. I'll play with that and see if I can figure it out.

I built this character out to 12th level, but we'll be starting at level one. The first few levels are already going to be rough, I suspect they might be murderous if I have to wait until I can afford a +2 weapon for my character to properly function.

Personally I think your +15 to hit at level 12 is pretty pathetic. Part of that is that you are way under-geared for 12th level, but some of it is the build choices (multiclassing)

Definitely a concern. Due to the multi-classing, this character would be weighing in at an anemic 2/3 BAB at level twelve. The heavy focus on DEX mitigates that to a degree, but definitely not entirely. However, for a single class Magus he would only be BAB +9 along with whatever he's getting from STR and magical enhancements. I'm guessing that's not too far off from the +15 here.

I can also see some encumbrance problems. With just your armor and fauchard you are at 18 of the 23 pounds you can carry at light load. Magic can help out a lot, but it is something you will have to pay attention to and deal with.

I would incorporate muleback cords into this build if I went through with it. As it stands, I only gave the character very basic magic items (weapon + armor), as the build was done quickly.

It just seems like you are trying to do too much and would be much better off with a much simpler character. Those three levels of rogue are costing you one 2nd, one 3rd and 4 4th level spells at this point (and you don't have any 4th level spells right now as a consequence.) I have a hard time believing that that kind of magic is worth dex-to-damage with a fauchard.

This is what I was worried about. I'm not looking for a world-beating, uber-optimized powerhouse. But I don't want a character that can't pull his weight because he's too schizophrenic about what his role is, either.

The loss of spells isn't a huge concern. I mean, I chose Kensai, so diminished spellcasting is something I'm alright with. I also made a conscious choice to not go the traditional "max-out-shocking-grasp-and-nova-the-bejesus-out-of-all-the-things" build either. I've played that kind of Magus and while tons of fun, I wanted to do something different. Also, Magical Knack means I'm only losing one CL. I can live with that.

I just realized I put in slashing grace when I already have DEX-to-DAM from the 3rd level of Rogue. I've replaced it with Improved Disarm.

Not a fan of Dipping rogue on a magus. The BaB alone is enough to make me cringe. Both are d8 HD and you rely heavily on a Mirror Image to stay alive.

I agree with Chess Pwn that Poisons tend to not be worth it due to Lower DC, Price, and speed of which the combat ends. The only time I have done a poison build was a character that had a companion critter with poison built in. Even then it only happened like 20% of the time and the creature died to damage and not the poison.

Now, as far as Debuffing the Magus has that. When I built my Frostbite Whip Magus he could effectively deliver -6 to most d20 rolls on a target as well as a myriad of other status problems making it so they only get 1 attack. With the added benefits of being able to trip, disarm, dirty trick from a distance as needed. Made for a great Front or Mid-line character.

I feel you should go full magus and focus on Debuffing via Rime Frostbite and Intimidation + Cruel weapon. Your enemies will find it hard to hit you or do much damage to anyone else on the team.

I generally dislike multi-classing and the reasons against it that you provide are definitely legitimate concerns. I don't feel like this character would struggle to get hits through, but losing an additional point of BAB is never something that should be taken lightly.

The dip does net me finesse, evasion, 2d6 sneak attack damage, some useful class skill additions and an extra combat feat that I turned into Slashing Grace.

I will definitely have to play around with this build and see how it looks at Magus/12.

It's quite debated if bladed brush works with a rogue. It seems it's something already okayed by your GM, but worth mentioning.

Step up also really doesn't work well with reach, since it only triggers if the enemy is adjacent to you, and with reach you don't want to follow if they ft away from you into your reach.

Poisons are normally to slow for PC's. Say you hit someone, the DC is fairly easy to save against, and if it does stick it deals max like 3 stat damage to something and then that thing is dead and the poison not doing anything. So they are really better for enemies against PC's since PC's are normally alive more than 1 fight.

Thanks for the response. The rogue/bladed brush combo shouldn't be an issue, but I'll run it by him to make sure everything is on the up and up. The last thing I want is to put a broken PC on the tabletop and detract from the experience of others.

Thanks for the insight on step up. As I said, I sort of ran out of ideas for feats (a good problem to have and one I'm not used to!), so I sort of shoehorned it in. I'll have to look at some other choices. Maybe Extra Arcana to pick up Wand Wielder, or improved disarm for some laughs.

As for the poison bit, can you recommend any Rogue archetypes that would synergize well with this build?

Been rolling this character idea around in my head for a few weeks. Will be running him in a sandbox campaign. We've decided to run a party with no traditional tank/beat-stick classes. We've got a Bard, a Wizard, an Oracle and a Slayer.

To that end, I thought I could make a tanky (ish) Magus. I like to try to mitigate the MAD problem some Magi builds can have, hence the Unchained Rogue dip. This idea cropped up because of the Bladed Brush and Redirect Attack feats. I just thought it would be awesome to play a character that lets enemies TRY to hit him and then uses it against them.

On a side note, I cleared it with my DM to use a Fauchard rather than the Glaive in conjunction with Bladed Brush. He figured since I had to to get EWP somehow, it wouldn't be abusive/OP.

A couple specific questions:

1). I considered going Hexcrafter rather than Kensai so I could stack on more debuffs. Problem is, I'd have to give up some Magus Arcana and I'd need to find a different way to get EWP. Is this a worthwhile alternative, or should I just stick with the kensai chassis?

2). I've enjoyed the Step Up feat chain in the past, but here it feels a bit tacked on. I'm sure it will still be situationally useful, but are there any other frat choices I've missed that are clearly superior?

3). The Master Poisoner bit was sort of an impulsive choice. Not an aspect of the game I'm very familiar with. Is it a totally sub-par choice? Seemed like slathering some poison on his weapon could give him some further debuffing options. If it could work, what are some good poison choices?

Really looking forward to your comments and critiques. Build below:

Is there a reason u went str rather than weapon finesse? Less MAD then. Get piaranha stike instead of power attack and swap out something for weapon finesse, then u don't have to dump int and charisma.

And an arcane dip is possible if done right, gunslinger is wisdom based for grit so grab the empyreal bloodline that switches to wisdom based instead of charisma based or use standard sorcerer (or bard) with mysterious stranger gunslinger archetype. If you do grab even one level of an arcane class, arcane shot is a great feat as well.

Yeah, I definitely looked at the Picaroon Swashbuckler for the free finesse when fighting with a sword and pistol. Seemed good at first and the plan was to take Weapon Focus + Slashing Grace to get this character completely DEX-based.

Problem is, Slashing Grace doesn't work with TWF. So, SAD Sword and Gun characters seem pretty hard to pull off in PFS. I played with it and decided good not great STR and DEX would work. Plus this build freed up a few feats.

I looked at Grenadier Alchemist for a few levels, I looked at Eldrtich Scion Magus + Mysterious Stranger. There's some synergy there, but I kept ending up with a really confused character that wasn't particularly good at shooting or casting. I think you really need that DEX to Damage with firearms to get competitive damage and even with Magical Knack, you're losing at least 3 caster levels to get there.

Also, I can't find Arcane Shot anywhere. Did you mean Arcane Strike?

I can't see anywhere that Savage Technologist isn't allowed in PFS. I looked at it, but I felt like to get the most out of that class, I'd need to take more than 5 levels. I'm also worried that running out of Rage rounds could be an issue.

But, most importantly, this build is already very feat intensive. Even with 7 levels of Fighter, I just realized this build doesn't have Precise Shot. That's pretty much a must-have, so I'll have to find room for it in there somewhere.

Just finished the first book in the Powder Mage Trilogy and I got the bright idea to try a character that fights with sword and pistol as a nod to the titular characters from the series. Well, to be fair the powder mages in the book have a lot of cool tricks that this guy can't pull off, but I like the idea of a guy that fights with a blade and a gun. I tried to work in the whole "Mage" piece, but multi-classing Gunslinger with pretty much anything other than Fighter just seems to make for a whole lot of suck.

TWFing is obviously not optimal, I'm just going for viable. The plan would be to just stick to the gun for the first 5 levels, which would be all Gunslinger. From there, I'd slowly work on making him not terrible at using both through the Fighter levels. So what do you think? Appreciate whatever insights and/or creative criticisms you guys might have.

Keep in mind this is a build out to 12th without any magic items other than his weapons. I figure Quick Draw and 3x Pepperboxes (18 shots, or 4.5 rds of combat) should be enough shooting for most encounters. Not sure how much cash he'll have after buying his pieces, but I'd like to work in a belt of +STR & +DEX at least. Anything else to consider?

Example

- Guy swings in and misses with a ranged touch attack v. a flat-footed foe with no armor. Natural 1s are a thing, but, you know...

And you've got to assume Jason Bourne has Improved Uncanny dodge or something similar, right?

I love your breakdown. Since this is all speculative, I'd like to point out a potential (albeit, small) flaw in your logic. Jason takes out assorted, hired guns/toughs and trained security personnel throughout the films. More often than not, he makes this appear pretty easy.

Why wouldn't we assume that these people are a few steps above a lowly commoner. Like the chump journalist that eats it in the 3rd movie for example, as we see how poorly he fairs against the same odds as Jason. If that were the case, Jason seems to effortlessly dupe and/or b!@ch slap mobs of these guys. That would ostensibly give them at least a level or two in fighter or a similar martial class, since there has to be some delineation between a trained fighter and a commoner.

The fact Jason is able to wreck droves of these types of 'characters', I would say is pretty strong evidence that he is of higher level than just 5.

Again, I feel your analysis is pretty spot-on, just playing Devil's Advocate!

I feel like people are vastly underestimating the bad@$$itude of Jason Bourne. Dude, quite simply, WRECKS people. I suppose maybe he doesn't stand out as well in a fantasy setting, but...I feel like he would ROLF-stomp pretty much any unarmed fighter in Pathfinder.

Oh, yeah!

Throw Anything and Catch Off-Guard (and any advanced versions of those he can nab).

Dude used an ink pen to murder another dude. An ink pen. And not the sharp kind, either.

This is what I was thinking of. I feel he would have to be some flavor of monk (probably MOMS as others have suggested) but catch off guard is a must.

He also killed a dude with a towel and another dude with a hardback book I think?

I understand the 5th level restriction...but his stats would be silly. I'm not sure a 20-pt buy would get it done.

Not super familiar with the monk in general, but if they have access to the amateur swash feat, parry and riposte might be pretty integral to his fighting style as well.

Search the Conversions thread

No go.

And I'm not looking for advice, just thought it would be fun to see what people come up with.

Bored at work today and thought this would be a fun question to ask the boards.

Rules:

1). No 3rd party material allowed.

2). 20-pt buy

3). Build to whatever level you want.

4). The build should try to capture the 'spirit' of the character, but not if it puts his effectiveness in the toilet.

It can be a little taxing and there's twice as much book-keeping, but you can see if your players would be interested in running multiple characters.

Or, you can GMPC a character that helps the group when you think a fight might be rather tough.

If you don't mind me asking, what book is Weapon Finance from? Can't seem to find it. I assume its a joke.

...totally a joke.

Dud Muffin wrote:

Weapon Finance :

Most unbalanced feat in the game.

I already took this feat at first level as a swashbuckler class ability

Either my joke is really bad or it's just completely over everyone's head...

You are trained in using your financial acumen in melee combat, as opposed to brute strength.

Benefit: With a light weapon, elven curve blade, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your current wealth (in GP) instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls.

Most unbalanced feat in the game.

I would suggest someone (perhaps the Cleric to keep the divine casting aspect) should consider a druid. Druids animal companions can help spread out some of the hurt the baddies will be dishing out a little more.

This class can cast almost as well as a Cleric and use it's critter to tank almost as well as a martial...if the character is built to do it.

It's like having a five-character party instead of just four!

So, the boards seem to have eaten my post...anyway, here it is again:

There are definitely some niche spells, such as Litany of Sloth, Ill Omen, and my personal favorite, Mudball (NOT PFS legal, unless you've got the boon for goblin).

Someone mentioned it earlier but...

Imagine the carnage you could unleash with a wand of Bladed Dash!

Thanks again Rory but I think fencing grace is better?- add dex bonus to damage, for no negative (and since I can get the weapon focus prerequisite with the adopted trait, it's not any more expensive :))

Just to avoid any confusion:

Piranha Strike is to DEX-based combatants what Power Attack is to STR-based ones.

Would allow you do more reliable damage once your BAB can afford the sacrifice of to-hit.

Power attack is a no-brainer for almost every STR-based melee build and this is the same thing for you. If you can find the room to invest the feat, it's definitely worth it.

It will net you much more damage than improved critical for example, which is an effect that you can replicate with the Keen weapon property anyway. Never spend a feat when you can spend gold instead.

Maybe I've missed something, but are you getting DEX-to-damage from anywhere? Or are you just accepting the strength penalty on all your damage rolls?

If not, slashing/fencing grace would be an important add or perhaps a 1 level dip in Swashbuckler.

Anyone want to try to actually make a PC with the bad stats rather than giving up and calling it an NPC or commoner? In the spirit of the old days when 3d6 in order was the actual style and there were no commoner classes.

When I started it was 4d6, drop the lowest and re-roll up to one "1" from each ability score. I never thought about how bad a character is likely to be with a simple 3d6! An 'average' roll in only 10.5

@dud muffin: seems like a perfect setup for a synthesis summoner, embrace the cheese.

Like this?

Strength: 3d6 ⇒ (3, 4, 1) = 8
Dexterity: 3d6 ⇒ (1, 6, 6) = 13
Constitution: 3d6 ⇒ (3, 3, 3) = 9
Wisdom: 3d6 ⇒ (5, 2, 1) = 8
Intelligence: 3d6 ⇒ (4, 3, 3) = 10
Charisma: 3d6 ⇒ (3, 6, 5) = 14

That's sufficiently awful. I dunno...some useful character's ineffectual fluffer?

I ask because "maximize caster levels" and "good Dragon Disciple" don't really fit together, and if you plan to play like a standard arcane caster, Disciple isn't granting you anything.

This.

Dragon Disciple isn't designed to cast save-or-suck-type spells. The more you're relying on enemies failing saves against your spells, the worse off you are.

As far as DD builds go, there are an abundance of options. Lots of people like Bard (I don't). I've seen some crazy high-STR builds using dips in Barb + Alchemist. One of my favorites is the following: Wildblooded (Sage) bloodline would let you capitalize on the INT bumps DD gets. Throw in whatever martial class floats your boat and go to town. This will help with some of the MAD problems you might run into.

Another popular choice is to go Monk (Sohei) X/Wildblooded (Empyreal) Sorcerer X/DD X. This changes your casting stat to WIS, which is useful for perception, sense motive, etc. It also mitigates some of the problems you'll have with AC, especially at lower levels...Since no armor without a hefty feat tax...unless you're willing to accept a bit of ASF.

Alternate option: Blood Conduit Bloodrager. Full BAB, and you can swft-action cast any touch spell after a successful manuever without needing to roll another hit roll.

I was just looking at this. If everyone thinks Alchemist -> Master Chymist is a poor choice (and so far I've only been offered other options, not told this idea is bad) this is likely the route I'd go.

I like the idea of using the grapple as the free touch to deliver a debuff.

For grappling I would actually focus on a full BAB class. Especially one that grants some specific grappling related abilities. Many are really good - Tetori for example gets many of the key feats as bonus fears and eventually is uniquely able to grapple even a foe with freedom of movement (which otherwise is the bane of grapple builds). Tetori isn't a full BAB class but for grapples it is effectively one.

The strangler brawler archetype is also interesting and martial flexibility is pretty potent.

I realize I could definitely get the most mileage out of my grappling from a full BAB martial class, but I really want to play a gish-type.

I love alchemist for the flavor plus Master Chymist fits the theme I'm going for and seems like it would be a lot of fun to RP...but if this is so sub-optimal as to be un-fun to play...then I would consider other options.

Seems like "Wings" would be an awesome discovery for this build, so I could ground any pesky flying casters. There's something awesome about the idea of a soaring tackle. Would any other discoveries fit well into this build?

I was away over the weekend, so I didn't have a chance to check the thread. Lots of really good stuff from everyone!

Go oracle. It's the best.

I will definitely consider this, though it's not really the flavor I'm going for. The Shaman was just funky enough for me to consider, but I don't really enjoy playing divine casters. However, I do realize that the Oracle is pretty awesome at a lot of things, including maneuvers now.

You should definitely check out the Battle Spirit. Among other things you get a lesser version of Inspire Courage to buff your party and the ability to temporarily add the Bane property to your weapon. You also get Enlarge Person and Righteous Might as Spirit Magic Spells.

I dug into the Shaman in my copy of the ACG this weekend and saw some good stuff. The Battle Spirit and Lore Spirit seemed like the best choices to me (though several others were very cool flavor-wise as well). However, after looking at how this build would come together, it became apparent very quickly that a maneuver-focused Shaman would be ridiculously MAD.

You can't really afford a single dump stat! You need STR for attack efficacy, DEX & INT for feat entry, WIS is your casting stat, CHA governs a lot of useful class abilities and it's never wise to dump CON.

I don't think I could make this work.

A barbarian with the rage power Savage Dirty Trick is intriguing - or the Slayer archetype Bounty Hunter gets some really strong abilities to deliver potentially multiple dirty tricks in a turn.

Combine any means of delivering multiple dirty tricks in one round with Dirty Trick Master (after level 12 or so) and you can end a combat in a basically a turn (a nauseated opponent who can only take move actions but requires a standard action to remove your effect = an opponent you can either kill or capture nearly at will.

In general at higher levels Dirty Trick or a build that triggers lots of attacks of opportunity opportunities for your allies will probably do better than Trip (which starts to diminish in utility as you start seeing larger, quadruped and flying enemies.

Grappling especially in builds that can pin quickly is another very strong martial debuff.

Lots of awesome suggestions here. I've never considered the dirty trick route. That's interesting.

After thinking about it a bit more, I like the idea of ditching the tripping idea and going for a grappler instead. Grappling seems like it might be more useful in general.

Some things that can't be tripped can be grappled, while the inverse is not true. I.e. you can grapple a flying creature, but cannot trip it. On the other hand, you can't grapple a ghost...but you can't trip it either. I understand this is not an inclusive list of examples and exceptions may exist, but...

Grappled is also a stronger martial debuff than tripped, at least as far as I can see.

That being said, I'm now considering an Alchemist focused on grappling.
The only obvious inclusion is Feral Mutagen for the claw, claw, bite attack routine and use during a grapple. I think if I go straight Alchemist I'd end up taking levels in Master Chymist because I always thought it was a cool PrC.

Is this a more or less viable concept? What feats are "musts" for a grappler? I am assuming this build would be pretty feat-starved, so I'll probably have to prioritize or consider a 1-2 level dip into monk or maybe brawler.

Slight adjustment from the original concept, but the maneuver-focused character that intends to layer on debuffs remains the same. Let me know what you think and thanks for all of your suggestions thus far!

Well I may just have to use the AP then, if I recall it starts out slow enough that I can get them familiar with the ways of the game before letting them go off to make their fortune.

Definitely starts off slowly.

If I remember correctly...

In order to help you more, I really need a clearer picture of exactly what you're trying to accomplish. Exactly what do you picture the character doing and how do you see it focused?

First of all, you make several excellent points. This build is certainly not an exercise in optimization, but I would like it to be functional.

Essentially, I picture this character being a blend of debuffing magic/bombs and reach attacking with a glaive or bardiche.

If I go alchemist, it should play out something like:

• Step 1: imbibe mutagen (and if there's time, requisite extracts) before combat.
• Step 2:After initiative is determined, chuck AOE bombs (stink, tanglefoot, confusing, etc) into likely-seeming mobs of bad guys.
• Step 3: wade into just-outside-of-melee range with reach weapon and go to town with full attacks and AoO's when possible.

If it's a shaman or another, true 'casting' class:

• Step 1: pre-combat buffs when possible
• Step 2:Spend my turns getting into advantageous positions and then casting debuffs on the biggest threats.
• Step 3: Take advantage of advantageous positioning to make as many AoO's as possible.

The 'chassis' of the build will be:

Power Attack > Pushing Assault > Combat Expertise > Improved Trip. I should have all of that by level two, and then be capable at tripping from reach and focus on my other abilities. If I went Human, I could fit in another combat feat before level 3 as well.

At least that's my notion so far.

Harrow Warden monk isn't bad. You can misfortune & bestow curse as a stunning fist replacement, and you are psuedo-full bab thanks to flurry. Best part is Idiot Strike has a will wave, to it works against a lot of thing in melee that stunning fist's fort save would fail on.

Wow, good find. I'd never heard of this. If I wasn't going for reach, this would be awesome. But I don't think the Idiot Strike's 'unarmed strike' req would work for this build.

Another option would be Shaman. Same access to hexes as a witch with a 3/4 bab.

Another class I have no familiarity with and exactly the kind of advice I'm looking for. Thank you.

I will dig into the Shaman to see what's there.

Any preliminary recommendations for the Shaman? Archetypes, feats, or must-have spells I should consider?

I have always wanted to run kingmaker, and my Eternal fey creature ally makes sense there.

I just always thought it was for a slightly bigger party then 4

I've run Kingmaker with a party of 3!

It was taxing, but I let the group create a pool of NPCs that stayed at their home base. They rotated through controlling one of these characters in addition to their own and had a lot of fun with it.

Kingmaker is a really fun AP to GM as well as play. Sounds like a good fit for you as well.

Two things:

1. If you're going 2 levels of Lore Warden, it is difficult not to justify going 3. At 3rd you get a flat +2 bonus to CMD/CMB which is really hard to beat because pulling off maneuvers is pretty difficult.

2. Pulling off maneuvers is difficult, and becomes even more so at higher level. Going for even a 3/4 BAB class is... not encouraged. The Witch is right out.

Potentially plausible as an Alchemist. Bombs can do some pretty neat things. Smoke Bomb (and friends: Stink Bomb, etc) can be pretty wonderful battlefield control and debuffs by themselves. Mutagen and extracts will help make up for the diminished BAB if you actually intend on tripping things.

Witch is... no. If you multiclass Witch you can say goodbye to tripping anything. By level 12 the median CMD is 35. Thirty-freaking-five. Plus additional modifiers for more than 2 legs, etc. You're not going to make up that deficit with levels in a 1/2 BAB class.

Frankly, barring a couple very narrow exceptions (Battle Oracle or Magus shenanigans for instance), 3/4 BAB classes are terrible at maneuvers. I don't know why Paizo has such a fascination for giving 3/4 BAB classes maneuver focused perks because it's just not going to happen with any regularity.

Thank you for the advice!

The advice regarding the 3rd level of Lore Warden is much appreciated. I hadn't looked past the 2nd level and bonus Combat Expertise.

The 1/2 BAB progression on the Witch was scary, but I have no experience with a maneuver-based character. I didn't realize how bad that lost BAB hurt!

So, Witch is no longer under consideration and I'm not interested in a Magus for the reason I outlined above. What types of feats and discoveries would you recommend?

Right now I'm thinking: smoke bomb -> stink bomb ->, tanglefoot bomb/confusion bomb & probably fast bombs when it comes online at Alc/8.

Will definitely be taking advantage of Mutagens + Extracts to try to make up for the lost BAB from going alchemist.

Are there any other classes that make sense for a debuff-focused build that don't sacrifice a ton of BAB?

I'd recommend the Kingmaker AP. It's really just a giant sandbox and the characters have a lot of latitude in how they'll proceed.

The learning curve is pretty appropriate for the player-level you described as well.

I have a character concept in mind that starts with two levels of Fighter (Lore Warden) to set up a reach build focused on tripping.

After that the plan is to go into another class that can help with battlefield control and stacking debuffs on bad guys.

Right now, I'm trying to decide between Alchemist (lots of tasty discoveries to put on the bombs I chuck the round before I wade into melee) and Witch (Hexes in addition to the normal arcane debuffs).

I know full-progression casters are the gods of everything, but I'd like to think outside of that box on this one. That being said if you can recommend a particular archetype, or bloodline, or whatever that would fit nicely with a tripping build thematically, I'm willing to listen.

I know the Hexcrafter Magus is good at this as well, but I already have a Magus going in another game and I'd like to try something different.

Right now I'm leaning Alchemist because of the better BAB-progression and - honestly - better mastery of the class. But I'm definitely not 100% sold.

What does everyone think?

at absolute most I plan to take AA to level 3 to gain the elemental arrows thing. I probably will end up using the extra levels to advance the other parts of the build.

So are you primarily interested in the actual Arcane Archer PrC? Or just for an Arcane Archer flavored character?

I do really want to use this but I have my concerns about the base attack bonus

The build I outlined above would have a BAB of +17 at Level 20 assuming you carried AA out to its extent (incidentally, I contend it's probably not worth taking past level 8 or perhaps even 4 depending on what class features are important to you). You would get your third iterative attack at level 18, 3 behind a full martial.

It's tough to cram that much BAB in along with a decent Caster Level (18 @ level 20 for 9th level spells). The above build does a pretty good job, however.

The recent FAQ on spell-like abilities not allowing for early entry into PrC's hurt the Arcane Archer a lot.

However, I've always thought this was a really cool class and it would be a lot of fun to play. Whereas the base Magus does a better job of being a melee-oriented gish class than the Eldritch Knight, I don't think the Myrmidarch archetype does the same for a ranged-oriented one (read: Arcane Archer).

Imbue Arrow is an awesome ability and not something the Myrmidarch allows you to do. The 7/10 spell progression isn't great, but you can cover that up somewhat with Magical Knack.

I've played with optimizing this build before and I think the following build is the best for a PC focused on casting that doesn't suck with his bow:

Fighter 1/Wizard (Transmuter) 5/EK 3/AA X

Transmuter let's you put a 17 after racials into your DEX and get a free bump for that +4 bonus. EK lets you advance your caster level along with your BAB, so you the 'valley of suck' isn't so unbearable when you finally get to Arcane Archer.

You aren't going to be the strongest character in the party with this type of character, but he should still be fun to play. Good luck!

First of all, Kingmaker is an awesome AP. You'll have a blast no matter what you play.

That being said, a lot of this AP takes place outdoors. I would recommend tailoring his companion as a usable mount. When he's mounted on his AC, he counts as both adjacent to and flanking with a partner that automatically has all the same teamwork feats he does.

Plus using his mount's movement speed can help your group with scouting, setting up ambushes, etc.

Blade Adept Arcanist is your best bet, I think. With Spellstrike, high DEX and all the accuracy/AC boosts from Arcana/Exploits, you should be pretty viable, if a bit fragile.

This.

I would be interested in seeing the average damage a Lvl 20 Blade Adept could manage.

Bump

Serious thread Necro here but...

Just to be abundantly clear, if I want an animal companion from first level using the beast master ranger archetype, am I required to take Boon Companion at 1st level.

Otherwise, my effective Druid level would be -2...so no AC yet. Right?

2) What is your primary combat role? Do you want to kill/incapacitate the bad guys (hammer)? Do you want to interfere with what the bad guys can do (anvil)? Do you want to assist you allies (anvil)?
3) What is your secondary combat role when the primary doesn’t work or isn’t applicable? I always recommend someone have a secondary role, but some people don’t want that. They will only maybe take a second method of fulfilling the primary role.
4) What is your primary non-combat role? Scout, face, lie detector, fact guy, tracking, etc…
5) What is your secondary non-combat role? I always recommend someone have a secondary role, but some people don’t want that.
6) Any other build requirements? Do you have a particular hook or theme you want to base the build upon? Mounted combatant, archer, gish, undine, divine caster, illusion specialist, elven curved blade, dex based melee, acid spells, martial only, etc…
7) Any other build restrictions? Don’t want human, no spellbook caster, not low skills, not a pet class, not charisma casting stat, not primary caster, etc…
8) Do you already have a backstory, history, or personality that you want me to try and match with the build?

2). I see this character primarily filling the "hammer" role. I'd like to get his strength up as high as I can and smash bad guys from Gecko-back whenever the circumstances allow it.

The problem with building the Gecko rider as a Cavalier is that you only have 4 choices of mounts as a small Cavlier (Beast rider excepted).

I should have mentioned that I would definitely use the Beast rider archetype with this build. Good catch, though!

I just discovered how (potentially) awesome the cavalier can be when I read through the APG again. Not sure why I dismissed it during my first read-through. I would love to build a character for PFS that is awesome either mounted or dismounted.

I've read over TarkXT's guide as well as this thread and others on the topic. It seems like playing a Cavalier in PFS can be fun, but I'm worried a build like this could be difficult to carry out.

At first the halfling on a gecko idea seemed gimmicky, but the more I think about it, the more I like it. I know you built your character this way as a Ranger Fruian, but would it be feasible to do so with cavalier instead?

Would a 1 level dip into Fighter (Dragoon) be worth it? Perhaps more than 1 level since it looks like this build will likely be feat-starved. Especially if I opt for a halfling. I'm all for getting the guy the feats he needs to operate, but I'd like to limit multi-classing as much as possible.

This type of character seems like it would be a lot of fun to play and that is the main draw for me. If trying to make this guy good at two things would make him a chore to play, I would rather just focus on one or the other.

Do you guys think this type of character would be possible? How would you propose he be built?

It frees up weapon focus, and its more thematic with what you are going for.

Well, weapon focus is a Kensai archtype freebie, so that's not really a concern.

Is arcane strike worth working into this build?

Unless you really like the cool factor, the required dip makes the katana vastly inferior to the rapier or scimitar. You're losing spells per day (already behind for a Kensai), a caster level (read as: damage for Shocking Grasp), +1 damage per hit (assuming you take Precise Strike... which you probably should be), and delaying all of your class abilities. You mention liking the crazy number of AoOs... a number of them don't kick in until Kensai 7, which is suddenly Kensai 8, and is thus more than two-thirds of the way through his career. And for that you get, literally as the sum total of your useful gains, +1 damage per hit. There's no way not to count that as a net loss in capabilities.

You want a Haramaki or Silken Ceremonial Armor. ASF 0%. 1 AC for insanely cheap. Do it.

You want Flamboyant Arcana, but you can also consider taking Amateur Swashbuckler. It'll ease the burden on your arcane pool. Keep in mind that you are not as good at parrying as a Swashbuckler; you don't have the to-hit that they do.

Vanish, Shield, Mirror Images, Blur, etc. are your friends. Use them. Heavily.

Infernal Healing is on your spell list. Screw UMDing a wand, just buy a Wand of Infernal Healing and go with it.

Very sage advice.

I really didn't want to multiclass. I like everything you suggested. Flavor-wise, I really dislike the idea of using a rapier, but mechanics-wise it fits. Maybe I'll go for the dueling sword and deal with the smaller threat range.

But you can get parry/riposte from an arcana.

Correct...but I cannot get Swashbuckler's finesse from an arcana to the best of my knowledge.

Alright all, I appreciate the feedback.

I think I'll opt for the rapier for now and maybe dip SB later on to pick up the katana. I will only lose on Caster Level, so that doesn't seem like too bad a trade off for picking up parry/riposte and Swashbuckler's finesse.

I can retrain Weapon Finesse once it becomes unnecessary or maybe tough it out for a level.

What do you think of the Step Up and Strike chain? Any other feats seem really awesome for this type of build?