Diodric's page

Thanks so much for the conversions, I'm using several of them in a new upcoming game!
I had a quick question, though. What sets the DC for the half-dragon's dragon breath? It just says a "basic Reflex save." I would assume it would be Con based but I may have missed something, and please forgive me if I did, I'm still learning 2e.

Thanks!

Diodric wrote:

Speaking of minis. Is there anywhere to get the minis for your Hireling pdf? I purchased the pdf for Kingmaker #1, but they're apparently no longer included. Which, by the way, both products are amazing. I really wish you had time to complete the other books.

I could probably update that product to include those hireling minis on the last page. I'll check with our webstore gninja...

That would be fantastic, thanks! I really appreciate it.

Diodric wrote:

*Lots of good (but slightly angry) points*

Agreed.

I am really sorry about that angry post, I have no idea why I was so mad at that source book last night, ha!

I look at the MMO like I would a fantasy novel, and adapt what is described to PF.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. I think conversions that are more cinematic and less a straight port end up being much better. Things that are more "in the spirit" of the game.

What chassis are you planning to build the shaman on? Are you going to use a preexisting class and archetype it, or you making a completely new class?

Also, I plan on having the races up today if you want them. It was just taking longer than expected yesterday.

The Epic Dungeon Master wrote:

@LazarX - At the risk of looking like a fool, how would it be easier? The 1st addition rules were more closely tied to the base 3.0 rules, whereas the 2nd addition builds of 3.5 while making a lot of changes themselves.

Because the WOW classes fit the world of Azeroth, which is the whole point of doing this thing. The point is to put a bit of Pathfinder into WOW isntead of trying to fit WOW in Golarion, isn't it?

Speaking wholly for my self, the whole point is to make a WoW conversion that doesn't completely suck *** like the White Wolf version did. Worst money I ever spent.

There is nothing to convert. That whole book was a joke. You'd end up throwing most of it out anyways.

The racial levels were unnecessary. I've made perfectly good races that work just fine which are on the same power level as some "uncommon" PF races. That was an issue with the 3.5 races if you needed to have 3 levels cover everything your race needed to do. I mean who is going to play a jungle troll without taking their racial levels? They take a net -2 penalty to their attributes! You'd play lvs 1-3 without a class level! Which by the way the troll race level abilities besides the attribute increases are healing, healing, and faster healing. So your goblin rogue buddy is already murdering gnomes with 2d6 sneak attack before you even get martial weapon proficiency.
So that means you have to completely rebuild the races. All but the 2 or 3 that didn't get racial levels. So might as well knock those out too.

The classes were almost as bad. They had a Healer class. Seriously? I will give you that they technically made the prototype for the Archetype system, but sweet Desna's teats! You don't smush the Priest, Druid, and Shaman into the same class! How do you convert those? How you gonna tell the Feral Druid and the Enhancement Shaman and the Shadow Priest they're healers?
Here, lemme get my buddy, Lord Marrowgar:
"SSS******TTTSSSTTTOOORRRMMM!"

Do we want to make 9 brand new archetypes or do you want to use preexisting classes and archetypes to make a reasonable facsimile?

I see where you're coming from and I personally appreciate the attempt. But wow (pun intended), that source book was the worst ever.

So, in conclusion, no. The point is not to shoe horn WoW into PF, or PF into WoW. Its to completely make a brand new system from the ground up using the best and most current rule set available that both captures the feeling of adventures in Azeroth while using tried and revised rules we all (mostly) observe.

/drop mic.

Edit: LazarX, please do not think I was directing anything at you at all. I respect you and your contributions to the forums. I just *really* hate that book.

Speaking of minis. Is there anywhere to get the minis for your Hireling pdf? I purchased the pdf for Kingmaker #1, but they're apparently no longer included. Which, by the way, both products are amazing. I really wish you had time to complete the other books.

Well they both had resistances. NE vs Nature damage, BE vs Arcane damage. I'll see if there's something comparable.

Edit: There isn't unless you want to give them a resistance to poison or diseases as well, which, makes no sense. Or we could give him elemental resistance 5. I'm thinking spell resistance may be best bet.

Quick question. I was getting to the blood elves, and found its only a point difference between lesser and greater spell resistance. That would bump them up to a 15 from a 14. 11+lv too good for 1 point difference?

To-Do:
Fluffly/Fleshy Racials
Favored Class Bonuses
Tweaked Alternate Tauren

Now I'm doing a class bonus for all the 10 basic WoW classes, save Death Knights. When I was doing my conversion I had Death Knights as a prestige class. I'm also assuming the bonuses will need to be tweaked based on what the classes look like afterwards.

I will try to have everything posted later this evening.

Edit: Large Tauren

Only thing is I wish the Tauren were stronger.

@LazarX - At the risk of looking like a fool, how would it be easier? The 1st addition rules were more closely tied to the base 3.0 rules, whereas the 2nd addition builds of 3.5 while making a lot of changes themselves.

@Diodric - Thanks! I'm not sure if you posted this after I started or not, but I wish I'd seen it when I was looking for material to build off of. This should make things go a little faster with some of the races + tweaking others.

Oh, I've had that list of years. I think I'm going to take a few minutes today and fluff out those abilities instead of that skeleton list.

@Can'tFindthePath
I'll look at tweaking a large Tauren, see if there's something I can do.

Edit: Um, looking at my old documents I had also apparently started adding favored class bonuses. I will probably need to finish those too if wanted.

Here, you can have these if you would like to use them.

Hey Sharaya,
Thanks for looking into that for me. If that's the case and the minis are no longer included then I think this line needs to be removed from the description of the Hirelings PDF:

Hirelings: Into the Wild is a companion piece to the Pathfinder Paper Minis: Pathfinder Adventure Path #31—"Stolen Land" set. Miniatures for each of the NPCs provided here are available in that set.

If they're not included anymore that's fine. I was just making sure I wasn't missing anything.

Thanks again.

I had posted this in the product discussion for the Kingmaker Stolen Land Minis but didn't get a response. I was just trying to find out if that PDF still included the 4 hireling minis from Hirelings, since my copy didn't seem to have them.

Thanks in advance.

Hey sorry to raise this thread, but I just purchased this set the other day and my copy seems to be missing the 4 minis from the Hirelings pdf. I read through both product discussions but I must have missed if they were removed from the set. Any help would be appreciated since I have players interested in hiring the NPCs.

Those are both great places to start, thank you. Now that I'm home, I can start fleshing out my idea a little more.

The Inquisitor to me is the half that's the divine gift from Cayden. Its fast and lose approach to higher morals, hence why I went Inquisitor instead of Paladin. It's also a small portion of Cayden's sellsword origin with abilities like Monster Lore and Stern Gaze, like "I've seen this before and I know how to push them."

When someone has a minute or two, I had an idea for an archetype I'd like to try to put together. The basic idea is a Swashbuckler/Inquisitor that's basically the stand in for a paladin of Cayden. I was thinking full bab and 4 lvs of delayed Inquisitor spells. I thought an alcoholic-related inquisition would be fun too, if its not trope or over done yet.

Until just recently I used a free program called inkscape and made custom Order of the Stick-styled stick minis. Print them out on card stock with a simple sealant and they were quick (usually), cheap, and easy. There were also lots of resources out there, like iheartprintandplay so I didn't have to sit and create every single monster and npc.

I'm glad to see some new faces popping on the threads. Just tell your players to jump on the tread. Its a friendly environment where you can discuss concepts and builds, and there are enough people who have been doing it for a while (last thread and longer) who are still around and are open to new people and concepts. They don't need to be afraid of this thread. (Now, nobody prove me wrong please. :D)

I'd love to know how many people actually check out our MCAs threads and wiki, and just lurk in the back. Perhaps I should make a thread for that purpose. I'd love to know how many people check out and use our MCAs, and what they think in general.

Well I would be one said lurker. I'm always on the wiki looking for updates and trying to keep tabs on the threads, but I always get cold feet to post anytime I think of an MCA idea, heh!

I think the MCA's are fantastic, I don't have anyone currently using them in any games, but I always include a link to the wiki in my character creation docs I send out. They are an approved resource if that means anything, lol.

When I did my conversions I made Fel Energy into Negative Energy.

Ah, whoops. I apparently need to go back and refresh myself on that part, then. My apologies for the confusion I caused!

No, its a +1 Delving armor. But for costs purposes (IIRC) it acts as a +3 modifier to find the cost of adding the additional +1 bonus. Also, remember that weapons and armor (again IIRC) can't have more than a +10 total modifier between "+s" and special armor abilities.

I got my first nephew! He was a few days early, but that's what I'm gonna call my Christmas gift. :)

I don't need to dig out mine. Both the box and the hardback are easily to hand. :)

Mine are still packed from my last move. Luckily less than 20 ft away from me, in one of those boxes. (Man, I really need to finish unpacking.)

I have some new players getting ready for a new campaign starting soon, how fun would that be to let them play a converted PF CoW just for a few sessions? I may have to!

Cheers Jeffrey, thanks for the inspiration!

I just found this thread and downloaded the PDF, flipped through a few pages til I got to the dragons. Was it just me, or did anyone see the dragon stats and immediately want to dig out their Council of Wyrms boxes?

I'm actually going to have to take a step back from my MCA. I had called the Investigator/Magus in the last thread. Since then I had to make an unexpected move back to my hometown so things are a little up in the air for me at the moment, and I don't know how often I'll be able to post in the future. But keep up the good work guys, I'll keep lurking when I can. :)

3d6 ⇒ (5, 6, 6) = 17
3d6 ⇒ (5, 5, 3) = 13
3d6 ⇒ (3, 3, 6) = 12
3d6 ⇒ (6, 1, 1) = 8
3d6 ⇒ (1, 1, 2) = 4
3d6 ⇒ (2, 4, 1) = 7

Has anyone called the Inquisitor/Magus? I couldn't find it if they did. I might try my hand with something not too ambitious, but I would prefer to just be put at the end of the current ACG que.

Or another example:
I had another character who ended up getting a randomly generated magic weapon from a Deck of Many Things. My older brother who was DM rolled up a Meteor Sling of Slaughter. The Meteor prefix gave it +5 to attack, the Slaughter suffix gave it +5 to damage. So really, all in all, it was a +5 sling. But the fact it was the "Meteor Sling of Slaughter!" dun dun dun! made it so much cooler.

They were random.
(edit: I just looked them up)
Well I remember a character that had Ruby Gloves of the Giant, I think they were. They gave him +4 Str, but then they also reduced Fire damage by 50% AND +4 saving throws vs. Fire.

I also had a Hyena Bow of the Moon, +2 to ALL Stats, BUT I couldn't cast any spells whatsoever. My Fighter/Thief did not care.

Does anyone remember the 2e Diablo magic items? Those were always fun. I think I still have my older brother's copy laying around somewhere... Those would be neat to convert.

So I need some help. My profile up there in the corner is my... persona, lets call him. Diodric (Deo-drick) or Dio is my most favorite D&D/Pathfinder character. I first made him over 13 years ago. I played him in a 2e campaign that lasted one whole summer, and one small tryst in 3.5 Eberron. Well I finally have the chance to play him in Pathfinder for the first time as a DMPC (the closest I'll actually get to playing any time soon). Thing is, while I've built and rebuilt him *multiple* times over the years I never ported his back story to Golarian canon.

I am completely at a loss.

Some quick background as far as I have it:
First off, both parents are alive, well, and supportive! Ha! Diodric's mother, Jillian, is the mayor of a small halfling village of Highreach, located somewhere near Falcon's Hollow in Andoran. His father, Eldon, owns a prominent business (undecided at this time, but I'm thinking an orchard and cidery); so Diodric is well-to-do but not affluent I would say.

He has a twin brother, Oiddric, (who's played by my real life younger brother) his back story includes becoming Captain of the Highreach militia and a brief issue with alcoholism then turning to the priesthood of Cayden Cailean.

With Diodric though, he grows up, there's some kind of classical training or mentoring with a Gnome mentor. That's it. He's an archaeologist bard, but I'm having a bad writer's block/disconnect between home and adventuring.

So I need some help trying to figure out, who/what/where/why. I've done the background generator from Ultimate Campaign, but nothing's really clicking with me.

I like the idea of a mentor being a Pathfinder Venture Captain, but at the same time I feel its too easy, its a cop-out. I don't need the gnome mentor, but that's where I was at with 2e and Eberron 3.5.

If anyone has any ideas or some guidance, I would really appreciate the help.

What about saying a round is 7 seconds instead of 6 and a swift action is 1 second and in the Pathfinder universe there are 70 seconds in a minute? Though that might not be too relevant if the idea below has legs....

I like some of what the OP proposed but thought that there should be a limit of one non-quickened spell per round. How about a recovery time of 3 seconds between spells where the caster can perform any other action but cast a spell. Likewise, a character with a high BAB, TWF or multiple attacks divides the standard action time by the number of attacks they have to give an attack action. Movement time is similarly divided (a character with a move of 30 divides moves one square every 1/2 sec)

If initiative was turned round so it was a delay to act, with 1 acting first, 2 acting next etc the system might work better. Roll 1d12 to give the number of half seconds before the first action.

I don't think you want swift to count as anything. Then you're pulling an 8 second round to Swift/Move/Standard when you should be able to do it in 6.

I, personally, would just bite the bullet. There have been a few threads on the conversion/refluffing of Pathfinder WoW. I believe (I could be wrong) the general consensus was its too complex(not sure if that's the correct word) for a simple refluff.

I mentioned in another thread and I'll mention it here: Elghinn Lightbringers's group that does the Multiclass Archetypes. There are several archetypes that fit WoW-style classes. I think its an excellent place to start if you're looking for classes.

Races? You got me.

What about if we borrow a little from Hackmaster?

Quick, rough rules.

Do a count up from 0.
Break down actions into seconds.
A round is 6 seconds.
Free action = 0 seconds.
Swift action = 0 seconds but can only be used once every 6 seconds.
Move action = 3 seconds.
Standard action = 4 seconds. (Slight bleeding into 7 seconds into a Move/Standard action.
Full-Round action = 6 seconds.

Initiative is d12-Initiative mod.

Casting a Standard Action spell takes 4 seconds.

Making a Full-Round Attack action with 2 attacks takes 6 seconds, 1 attack every 3 seconds. 5 attack are 2 attacks every 3 secs.

Link

I converted them a while ago if interested.

Razal-Thule wrote:

rainzax wrote:

is there a function to Bluff a mark into or out of existence?

It doesn't upset me at all for i would never run a game that limits the game as you seem to want to do. You are taking away free will. Just because you consider a mob pointless doesn't mean it shouldn't have free will still.

To be fair, Headfirst is doing a good job of staying classy while not letting dissenting voices dissuade him/her. I've got to give that (lots of) credit.

I agree, Headfirst seems to be taking a lot of flak for just an idea in the House Rules section. I mean, either take it or leave it, but to just come in and make nonconstructive criticism for a proposed house rule seems rude.

I think its a great idea, especially when half of my players came from MMOs and transitioned over to tabletop afterwards. I think this is a neat mechanic that my players would be used to and have the mindset for.

Diodric wrote:

Hey sorry to bust in here guys, but does anyone know if the Elder Sage archetype for the Witch was ever finished with revisions? Thanks!

Yes we apparently did. I just revised it on the wiki.

ELDER SAGE

Holy crap, that was fast! Thanks, I really appreciate that. You and your team are amazing, keep it up.

Hey sorry to bust in here guys, but does anyone know if the Elder Sage archetype for the Witch was ever finished with revisions? Thanks!

I don't know if they're ever in any of the novels, but I know they had a full stat writeup in the 3rd or 4th Monsters Manual under "Warforged Scout."

Shaman in the ACG can shapeshift as part of their Hex...yup, they have also flame and wind spirits. Yeah look like we got our WoW shaman upcoming. Didn't check the archetypes yet but this is looking pretty good.

Is the Shaman still a 2/3 BAB? I think any less and it would make a poor choice for an Enhancement Shaman.

I wonder about the Bloodrager too.

I'll be getting the PDF soon.

To me, the Warcraft d20 (both the one based on Warcraft RTS and Warcraft MMORPG) didn't resemble the game IMO. Though quite a bit of it is kinda useful.

I agree. It's useful for seeing how they translated certain class abilities.

I suppose you could, but that'd probably require almost as much updating, lol!

The Healer class alone contains Druids, Priests, and Shaman(s? Shamen? What's the plural of shaman anyways??).

But if you were to do a conversion like Nathanael envisioned it'd probably be great fodder for ideas.

Well, like I said above my planned conversions were merely a "in spirit" conversion and that WoW is too "gamey" for PF.

I think trying to "Crafterize" Pathfinder would probably get you something close to 4E... Set powers and whatnot.

/shrug.

I'm not really a designer, my whole attempt at conversion was really just bastardizing the preexisting archetypes with some tweaks. I suppose it could be done though. I'll see what I can come up with.

I'll be starting a new thread sometime to continue this discussion, I've threadjacked Eltaco's thread enough.

I guess it really depends on how big of a conversion someone wants to do then. I personally never intended on converting the WoW classes spell for spell.

If one was doing a full rewrite to basically do a WoW RPG based off the Pathfinder system, then great, yes, you would have to all new damage types. I think the OP was going for more of a "If a character wanted to play an Arcane Mage-like character in Pathfinder, what would be a good build?"

To reiterate, I agree, Force doesn't equal Arcane. At the same time though, I wasn't going to make write a Wrath, Moonfire, or Starfall spell either.

Arcane Mage will be a tough conversion without it though. I wonder if there is a little known precedent for Arcane damage somewhere...

Arcane is not equal to Force. Even suggesting as such shows you have no concept of the setting of Warcraft. Arcane is a distinct and unique thing in and of itself.

An Arcane Mage is definitely not a Wizard who uses Force spells.

Right, Force doesn't equal Arcane. However, this is a conversion, not a re-write. As someone who's played WoW since open beta (not trying to be that guy, just making a point), I was considering simply making the Arcane Mage as a Force Wizard. I think Force is a very easy approximate to Arcane damage without redoing the whole damage type with would be a lot of converting.

It also depends on where my personal conversions end up, but I would personally rather not have to redo all the damage types.

Update: I've been tinkering with the balance druid the last couple of days, I've got a decent rough draft I'll probably post either tonight or maybe tomorrow depending.

If Eltacolibre doesn't mind I'll just post them here or I can start a whole new thread for conversion ideas.

Funny, I was just coming back to post an update. I've spent a few hours doing research on the classes. It was going ok until I went to Elghinn's MCA website I mentioned above for some inspiration...

Seriously, those guys that work on those MCAs do a hell of a job and anything better I could hack and cobble back together. Within 10 mins I found archetypes that could fit *several* WoW classes.

I believe doing a literal conversion spell for spell (or thereabouts) is folly. There's too much "game" that I don't think d20 is built for. (The first class I was researching was the Balance Druid. How do you make a full caster and even better full caster??)

I would personally go for a "spirit of" conversion that captures the essence of the class. With a small amount of refluffing you could probably find 90% of the classes on the MCA site.

I think I may transition into that project: Refluffing the MCAs into WoW compatible classes.

An uncredited wise man (or woman, I suppose) once said, "Do something you love and you'll never 'work' a day in your life."

Edit: I think I've changed my mine and decided to do a 4th spec for some classes. Namely Druid, Monk, and Shaman. Druids will have Guardian and Feral. Monk, I think I would like to try and have one spec based off of each of the Celestials. Also one spec based off each element for the Shaman (so finally a Shaman tank).

I think over the next few days I'm going to start "converting" the classes. By convert I mean a methodical butchering off the archetypes into an undead monstrosity that more or less shoe-horns the Pathfinder classes into a pseudo likeness of the Warcraft classes.

Current plan of attack:
All classes will have 3 archetypes based on the talent trees. Druids will not have a separate Guardian/Feral archetype, and Death Knights will be a Prestige Class with its own archetypes that will make the character into a creature with an Undead subtype.

Edit: For typos.

I always really liked the 3.5 Dragon Shaman re-fluffed as a WoW Shaman too.

There are a few Bard archtypes that stack (or close enough), Eltaco, that you could potentially make a whole new shaman class built off the bard. Thundercaller and Songhealer come to mind. Or if you don't mind using the homebrew stuff check out Elghinn Lightbringer's Multiclass Archtype threads or his MCA website. There are a lot of *really* neat archtypes that could fit the WoW classes. In addition, you could use the bloodrager from the ACG as a shaman, making the bloodrage class feature into a personal bloodlust/heroism that isn't shared with allies. Or even use multiple classes based off of which spec a player wants to you. Bloodrager for enhancement, bard or ACG skald for elemental/restoration.

Shaman was my main so I've thought about this a lot, just never put much to paper so I don't really have much to link you. The other classes I'd have to do some research I really don't have the google-fu for right now.

What I had rolling around in my head was more of a "the spirit of WoW" conversion than a straight up converstion like was Detect Magic was posting above.

I would also recommend for the Shaman using the Bard as a chassis. The bardic performance is a decent mechanic for Heroism. There's also a few archtypes like the thundercaller or the savage skald that fit thematically.