Thorn's End Guard

Dareon Niroden's page

467 posts. Alias of leinathan.


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male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

I'm working on my character now and will have an alias with an increasing amount of more refined information on it.

Anyone feel free to message or whatever if you'd like to be my family member! I was hoping to have the Tagging Along campaign trait with another PC, and to have that PC be a younger family member.


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

4d6 ⇒ (4, 1, 4, 6) = 15 = 14 (+2)
4d6 ⇒ (1, 2, 1, 2) = 6 = 5
4d6 ⇒ (4, 5, 5, 6) = 20 = 16 (+3)
4d6 ⇒ (4, 5, 3, 2) = 14 = 12 (+1)
4d6 ⇒ (4, 4, 4, 2) = 14 = 12 (+1)
4d6 ⇒ (2, 2, 3, 4) = 11 = 9 (-1)
4d6 ⇒ (1, 4, 4, 4) = 13 = 12 (+1)

+7 total - I guess this is fine. 20-point buy exactly if I'm not mistaken.

Str 16, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 7

(racial mods in Con, Wis and Charisma)

I'm thinking that my character's relatively middle-class. Her family had been struggling for awhile, and so they turned to prayers to Mammon to try and restore their fortune. Devotion to Mammon pretty much wasted my character's parents away and made life pretty awful for her and her brothers.

Now, at around 67, her parents are dead and her brothers and sisters are getting there as well. She has nieces and nephews who are young and energetic, and who are interested in the rebellion in a very real way. My PC has never seen anything good happen from acting against the status quo, always having been punished for nothing and barely rewarded for acting within the law. However, she has to look out for her family.

She feels that valour and nobility are good virtues to have, and she knows that diabolism has done nothing for those that she cares about. She's turned to the worship of Iomedae because she sees in the Inheritor everything that she wishes to be.

I think that I want the family to be blacksmiths that were struggling to succeed because of their relatively spartan and non-artistic work. I also think that joining the dottari for a time is the only reason I can think of for why she'd personally own armor and weapons. Hmm.

- - -

Anyone wanna be my character's niece or nephew?

Also, we're gonna have two rogues? And what's Fade playing?


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

Idea beginnings!

LG female tiefling (devilborn) inquisitor of Iomedae
31 years old (or around 100?)
(assuming 20-pt-buy?) Str 14, Dex 14, Con 15, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 8
Chivalry Inquisition
Hopefully Tagging Along for a "Reason to Protest" and Fed Up Citizen for a Campaign Trait

GM, what do you think about tiefling age tables? I'll need a decision for the older or younger tieflings to see what my concept is gonna turn out like.

Basically the idea is that Cheliax used to be an Aroden-inspired nation and that it's fallen quite a bit. Iomedae is the Inheritor of Aroden's worshippers so it should be her to take Cheliax back under her wing.

Also I was thinking that this character probably hasn't really seen much action and doesn't really want to...until recently, at least. I couldn't decide whether I wanted to make him a nobleman (with Fiendish Facade), a city guard (probably recently fired or quit) or a very discriminated-against regular citizen.

---

NOTE: The particulars of my ability scores, especially my Charisma and my PCs role in combat will depend on the other PCs scores and abilities.


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

I can start doing some real work on my character pretty soon if we're gonna be ready soon.


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

Another thing about Unchained that I love is Automatic Bonus Progression - it removes amulets of nat armor, rings of protection, belts/headbands of +stat, enhancement bonuses on weapons and cloaks of protection and replaces them with by-level gain.

Saves slots for better shit.


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

Variant Multiclassing allows you to exchange half of your feats for a secondary class, which gives you some class features.

For example, the variant multiclass for paladin.

It gives you detect evil at 3rd, lay on hands at 7th, smite evil at 11th and I don't remember the 15th and 19th abilities. But you lose those feats.

Background skills gives 2 extra skill ranks that one can use for only specific skills. Like Craft!

Also, as for restrictions, I might be going for a divine commander warpriest instead. Or a regular warpriest and multiclassing somehow to get a mount.


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

The Emissary archetype gives abilities both in and out of the saddle (literally an ability called that) and if you want to blunt the mounted focus, just take abilities that are not mounted. The emissary archetype also drops Tactician.

The ghost rider archetype might also be what you're looking for - it drops tactician and some of the mounted class features for other, really cool stuff.

You can also take another class, like the rogue, and use Variant Multiclassing and Animal Ally to grab cavalier abilities and a mount.

Speaking of, GM, how do you feel about Unchained? Variant Multiclassing? Background Skills? The Unchained classes?


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

What about the cavalier is dis-satisfying to you? What about the cavalier do you want? Maybe I can help.


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

I'm fine with having four players. And I think I've decided on a Chivalry Inquisition inquisitor... though I still need to read the players' guide.


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

Besides, what if we made a character from Tian-Xia? Or that happens to have studied in an Iroran monastery? Those definitely exist in the Inner Sea region.

Either way, with no ACG and no psionics I definitely want to play an Iomedaen divine caster.


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

Is a monk asian-themed?

Also, how you do feel about Dreamscarred Press' psionics?


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

My initial thought is an infiltrator inquisitor of Iomedae.


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

They are on the SRD.


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

I am also prepared to play in another game with you, though we might want to pick up a person or two.

I think I know what kind of character I want to play.


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

Hell's Rebels is significantly more interesting to me than Council of Thieves, honestly.


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

Council of Thieves is an adventure that I'm familiar with and like a lot, though I've tried (and failed) to run it.

As for Shattered Star, your impressions about it are completely right. Every chapter save for the last is pretty much a huge dungeon. Chapter 3 is in Kaer Maga, delving into puzzle-y room after puzzle-y room. Chapter 4 is in a chapel, and is much more dynamic and interesting but is still pretty much endless combat.

Chapter 2 is the best dungeon, but it's still a dungeon.


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

Fade's got the right of it. Doing a dungeon crawl as you would in a F2F format, but via PbP instead goes for months of opening doors and finding an empty room on the other side.

Shattered Star is a good adventure path, but it's entirely full of dungeons and for that to work, we either need to change our MO or we need to switch up to something with more role-play and less delving.

I agree that whether Duboris is here or not led to a lot of delays.


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

My primary desire would be to change the game to a different game. I don't really think that this adventure path (or...probably this current adventure) has very much desirable longevity.


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

I'd like to take this opportunity to say that I'm bored to tears with this PbP and that Shattered Star is a terrible example of an AP that's good for PbP.

Dungeons, especially one as pointless-feeling as the Crow, are just...grinding teeth in PbP, which is a format that is optimal for role-play.

And it doesn't get better. I'm starting Chapter 4 in a F2F Shattered Star and I'm even bored of the continuing dungeons in that game.


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

Dareon thanks Tanjvats for the healing, and then he plops down on the ground, taking out a few alchemical reagents. "Give me a minute." he says, searching for different alchemical ingredients to make a potion.

He ends up with a small vial filled with pink liquid, which he immediately drinks.

Cure Light Wounds: 1d8 + 1 ⇒ (3) + 1 = 4

"Ready."


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

Dareon pivots, realizes he's still flanking an ant with Tanjvats, and laughs. "Really anticipating my needs before I even have them, Tanj!"

He swings his sword at the ant, glad that they're finally having some success.

Shortsword Attack: 1d20 + 5 + 2 ⇒ (6) + 5 + 2 = 13
Damage: 1d6 + 3 + 1d6 ⇒ (1) + 3 + (2) = 6


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

Seeing another ant fall, Dareon redoubles his assault against the ant in between him and Faedrin, swinging his longsword hard at it in an attempt to finally kill it.

Shortsword, Flank: 1d20 + 5 + 2 ⇒ (11) + 5 + 2 = 18
Damage: 1d6 + 3 + 1d6 ⇒ (5) + 3 + (4) = 12


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

Dareon wheels around to face the ant behind him now, swinging his sword with the pivot to try and crush in its head. He's counting on its distraction by Faedrin to ensure his success.

"Tanj, circle around the ant that you and Kascio are fighting. It'll make combat easier."

Shortsword, Flank: 1d20 + 5 + 2 ⇒ (1) + 5 + 2 = 8
Damage: 1d6 + 3 + 1d6 ⇒ (1) + 3 + (3) = 7


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

Dareon, still flanking with Penance, swings his short sword again at the ant-creature, attempting to spear it right through.

"We need to kill this one before we surround the next. Take them one at a time with all of us, they'll go down much easier."

Shortsword Attack vs. Ant, flanking: 1d20 + 5 + 2 ⇒ (9) + 5 + 2 = 16
Damage, SA: 1d6 + 3 + 1d6 ⇒ (6) + 3 + (3) = 12


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

Dareon maneuvers around the ant to the other side of Penance, trying to ensure that the creature is distracted enough such that it doesn't defend itself as effectively against attacks. Then he tries to stab it somewhere vulnerable with his shortsword.

Shortsword Attack: 1d20 + 5 + 2 ⇒ (4) + 5 + 2 = 11
Damage, sneak attack: 1d6 + 3 + 1d6 ⇒ (2) + 3 + (5) = 10


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

At the appearance of an enemy, Dareon moves up at a hustle, stepping in front of Kascio and raising his shield. "Stay behind me if you can, Kascio." He then turns to the others and says, "Someone bring a light over here, would you? It's a little dark."

Double-move.


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

I'm still around - I don't think Duboris has been on the boards in a month or two. He hasn't inactive-d a game of his that I was playing in and we stopped it due to his inactivity a long time ago.


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

"Is this a level we haven't yet explored?" asks Dareon. "We're encountering a dangerously small number of creatures here, but I'd still caution that we be careful." With that, he heads down the staircase to the next level.


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

Dareon is bravely forging ahead, shield and short-sword at the ready. (it's a staircase, yes?)


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

"I can hold my breath for... a long, long time, if we actually want to check it out. And I can get about 300ft. down the pipe." "pipes" in Dareon, quickly. "But only if we care."

"Otherwise I'm all for getting the rest of the exploration done and getting the hell out of here."


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

Dareon turns from his position at the front of the group, ensuring that his booted feet are secure on the uneven stone ground first. "They must have been here all along. It doesn't surprise me that people like to come over here and look around. People are curious. And stupid."

Dareon turns back around. "Cast the light forward, Fade. Let's see where this leads."


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

"Yes, well." murmurs Dareon. "I guess I'll just conserve my resources for this one." he sheathes his sword and tries to stand up straight in the natural (?) stone corridor he's found himself in.

He draws a dagger and turns farther into the passage. He calls out over his shoulder, "I'll check this out. I'll be back if there's anything interesting in here." and then he begins to crawl farther into the passage, slicing any cobwebs that get in his way.


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

Dareon grunts, puts his shield in front of his face and charges forward, attempting to get to the other side of the spiders so that he might flank with Faedrin and Kascio, and so allow them greater opportunities for strikes.

I'm not certain whether I just get AoOs (vs. AC 26) for moving through their space or whether I have to make an Overrun combat maneuver. I'd prefer the former if possible, but I'll roll anyhow.

Overrun?: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (15) + 4 = 19


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

Dareon hunkers behind his shield, shortsword in hand. "Being a janitor for thousands-of-years-dead wizards isn't something that I really thought I was signing up for when I joined the Pathfinders."

He swings his sword sourly. "Apparently I was wrong."

Attack!: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (3) + 5 = 8
Damage: 1d6 + 3 ⇒ (4) + 3 = 7


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

Dareon pokes his head into the crack in the wall when he hears Kascio mention fire. "Kascio' don't set those on fire. Spiderwebs don't even burn - they'll just smoke and suffocate you."


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

Dareon follows along silently, pushing himself to the fore of the group again as they forge into new territory. He draws his shortsword and shield again, reminding the party, "Be careful, everyone. We don't know what else there is here."


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

I am running away.


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

"I agree with Faedrin. Running might be best for now."


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

Belay that torch, then.

Dareon holds his hand out to Tanj. "Any extra? Give them to me. We need to kill them fast. Start with the alchemists' fire."

He points at Esmerelda. "You or your eidolon should go back until you find Tower Girl corpses. Take any alchemists' fire you find, and then hurry back. Either the bats will be dead, by us, and we'll just have some extra alchemists' fire for next time, or we'll be hiding underwater because we ran out and we need you to kill them."

Why am I staying? Why, because I have lower speed and higher Dex, of course. Esme can dash back to some corpses, right? And I remember that they had alchemists' fire that we didn't take.

Dareon then sheathes his sword and concentrates on the Shard of Pride. He remembers that he can create illusions with it, and does so. He says, "Step back, Kascio," before creating an image of a roaring inferno in the hallway in between them and the bat noises.

SA to use major image to create six 10ft-squares of fire as far forward as I can go. If it's keyed off of my stat, it's a DC 16 Will save to disbelieve. If not, it's DC 14.


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

Don't Roll a 1: 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (12) + 7 = 19

Softly, Dareon says, "Those are bats. Anyone got burst spells prepared?" While he says this, he takes his pack off and sets it on the ground. He takes out one of his torches and proceeds to start lighting it.


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

"Those were no Thassilonian magic." grumbles Dareon, tersely. "Just a couple of parasites looking for food. They might be involved with the Thassilonians in some way - some leftover summoning result of something - but they weren't magical."


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

Dareon comes out from behind his shield, gripping his shortsword strongly and going in for a deep stab into the amoeba.

"Stay behind me if you can, people!" he shouts, and then waves his shield towards the other amoeba, trying to attract its attention.

Shortsword Attack: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (4) + 5 = 9
Damage: 1d6 + 3 ⇒ (4) + 3 = 7


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

I'm going to risk the jump.

Daring and brave (at least in his own mind) Dareon attempts a leap over the balcony to be in front of Kascio.

Acrobatics: 1d20 + 3 + 2 - 4 ⇒ (16) + 3 + 2 - 4 = 17


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

Knowledge (dungeoneering) to identify: 1d20 + 10 ⇒ (9) + 10 = 19

Dareon carefully studies the things, trying to see if he remembers anything from his past education about them. Then, he takes his shortsword and he steps protectively in front of Kascio, shield at the ready. He actively hides behind his shield.

Move action to move 20ft. forward in front of Kascio (assuming 10ft. squares). Standard action to adopt total defense. AC 26 (18/18) for one round.


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

Dareon moves carefully in front of Kascio, casting his gaze in the same direction as his chest, making sure that he's ready to respond to whatever danger that comes out.

"Somebody detect magic? These are too well-preserved to be natural."


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

Dareon stands at the fore of the group, shoulders hunched protectively forward (kind of trollishly, but he's leaning forward into whatever might come tackling out), his new shortsword and shield at hand.


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

I'm pretty sure I'm gonna have to do that - I might be the only one here that speaks Thassilonian.


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

Dareon raises an eyebrow at the runes. "It's another puzzle." he says, somewhat tiredly. "The words "Listen" and "The Eyes" are spelled out in Thassilonian here on the doors - I think we're supposed to re-order them like with the puzzle box that Heidmarch gave us."

He thinks for a moment before continuing. "The puzzle box's key was "Lucre" - a word that's connected to greed. So, it stands to reason that the key here is connected to greed as well. However, I doubt it - this place seems to be a shrine to Alaznist - Unless I'm mistaken, in which case excuse me - the Runelord of Wrath - so I'd be willing to bet that the keywords for this puzzle are related to wrath."

"Ideas? Anyone?"


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

Of course, I'm sorry - I'll pick it up some more.


male human fighter 1/alchemist 1 | hp 15/19 | AC 22, touch 14, FF 18, CMD 17 | Fort +6, Ref +5, Will -1 | Perception -1, Init +3

Dareon looks intently at the door, crossing his mailed arms. He's a little concerned about the heat of the door, but he's more concerned with the material makeup of the door.

Knowledge (arcana): What is this metal?: 1d20 + 10 ⇒ (13) + 10 = 23
Knowledge (history): What are these decorations?: 1d20 + 11 ⇒ (16) + 11 = 27

"Does anyone have something flammable that you don't care much for?" Dareon murmurs, patting his backpack for a moment before realizing that he probably doesn't have anything of the sort - unless he rips a page out of his formula book. "I'd like to see if this is hot enough to hurt us before we try and open it."

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