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I tend to 'talk' a lot in hopes all relevant facts are divulged. I am not a fan of people who take things out of context. Some on here have taken some of the things I have said out of context in attempts to make me look 'not good'. As I mentioned in the first post of this thread, the purpose of it being a short composed question was to get people's initial gut reaction to the only word being used that is considered (by many) to have a negative context.
I had absolutely no plan to call out who prompted me to want to get a public consensus on whether or not people view the word skeptical with a negative context. Unfortunately the officer, and his captain (who started things right off the bat by posting something rude on my thread) thought I was planning on calling out his officer in the thread. The officer would have seen the public consensus himself and choose whether to incorporate it into how he does things or not. The thread was not just for his sake but for mine as well. So I ask again on here. Do you think the word skeptical has any negative context to it? Another question I will also ask on here is this: What do you think is the most common reason/circumstance/situation that makes someone become skeptical?
My thread was locked before I could post this explanation. Do I have an ulterior motive? No, I do not. Unless your definition of ulterior motive includes "Trying to make a more overall friendly environment for anyone to play PFS (or any public venue leisure activity/game)" The question your officer has not answered is this: What is the most common reason/circumstance/situation that makes someone become skeptical? I ask the above question to everyone above now. The reason I made the thread the way I did was to get people's initial 'gut reaction' to the word skeptical. I could have simply asked people if they think there is any negative context to the word skeptical (skepticism), but by doing so they would have been deprived of giving their initial gut response to how they view the word without giving it more thought. I ask that question now as well. Who thinks the word skeptical has a negative context to it (even if it is only a wee bit)? Who thinks it does not. What I have been trying to do is help the overall community by making someone (who could let others know) that some people view that word with negative context. So unless having a good motive equates to having an ulterior motive, No, I do not have an ulterior motive.
Well, to answer your question, A is a lot better. B doesn't make a lot of sense, and will lead people to be skeptical of your gaming group. You could probably just leave off that third adjective, though, making it friendly and welcoming. Thank you, QuidEst. Could you please explain to people why you chose A.
The question posed was not to cause a lengthy debate. The purpose is simply this. Based on those two descriptions, what would you initial preference be regarding which venue to play at? GUT instinct. First Reaction. Simply put, based on those two descriptions, which do you think YOU would most enjoy playing at?
Not sure what encouraging and skeptical mean in this context. In this case those words are describing the people who run the venues. Thanks for letting me know it was not as clear as I thought, BNW.
If you had the choice to play at one of the two following gaming venues, which one would you choose (and why)? Gaming house A "a friendly, welcoming and encouraging place to play your favorite game". Gaming house B "a friendly, welcoming and skeptical place to play your favorite game."
Thank you for the invite, Mulgar. I might take you up on it someday. To make things clear. My players and I do live in a city. I was talking about where I grew up - which has given me a several years perspective that many players do not have the ready or frequent options of playing at PFS/gaming events. I personally work 12 hour shifts and work every other weekend. I have a Thursday biweekly game that I run (S&S), a Sunday game one of my friends is running RoTRL, and starting a summer biweekly game for one of my young nephews who has a budding desire to play D&D while he is off for summer vacation. Because of my work schedule that those two biweekly games and the pick-up game for my nephew takes up the majority of my free time. Come the fall I will be running PFSACG (already in talks with the owner of a local hobby shop). Based on where I grew up, it made one of the earliest bucket list items to attend GenCon. PaizoCon is now on the list too. Ideally I would like to attend with MY gaming group. Hence why it is a long-term plan. People on here tend to overlook that important detail and concentrate on 'oh, that is a bad idea!' about attending a con with credited PFS characters. I will say this...based on the overall responses and attitudes of some posters...there are some great people involved in the PFS as well as a few who have given hints (inadvertently) that they are still susceptible to the high school 'clique' social mentality of ranking others. Of those few I would not be surprised if others have given up on the PFS. I came here for advice and got some great input. I also received some 'haters' who did not explain their stance...some eventually did (and in all fairness explained their stance quite well).
If someone already stated this, good. If not, then here is your answer. Pathfinder makes use of the 3.5 OGL. In the 3.0 core three books you have your answers. Like if a creature is tall or long. The change from 3.0 to 3.5 did NOT change whether a creature is tall or long.
They are playing good PFS scenarios. I am of the view that sanctioned modules and APs are good PFS scenarios. They are and will continue to have fun playing through them and getting to level up their PFS characters while doing so. Simple math: play a sanctioned content of a module/AP: have fun and get credit towards a PFS character. This happens regardless if you play the sanctioned content with a legal PFS character or with a campaign mode character that you get pre-gen credit for playing. I reiterate, my group does not play a lot of PFS. So how I am handling things allows them to get the enjoyment of leveling up PFS characters (and playing them for the non-campaign mode allowed modules/scenarios). When needed, their official PFS characters are being played (like for the lv 9 modules I wll be running for them). The goal of PFS is to have fun playing PF and levling up your PFS character(s). What I am doing accomplishes this. By some posts it appears some have not actually comprehended this simple to grasp fact - and I am not sure why it is so difficult to do so - unless some people are attempting to flame war -which does not appear to be the case). >pH unbalanced: thank you. your last sentence probably sums up the reason some people were having difficulty grasping why my idea is not a bad idea. The first AP I am running they will probably be applying all pregen credit to the same PFS characters. My players for the most part ONLY play at my table during our biweekly game. Thus, no 'other tables' that they play their PFS characters at.
>MisterSlanky: why, exactly does it sound like an 'exceptionally bad' idea to you? You do not approve of giving your home group of players the opportunity to play campaign mode APs/modules (using non-PFS characters) that can apply credit to playing the sanctioned AP/modules towards actual PFS characters? Here are two most common scenarios (working with using non-pFS campaign mode PCs). Option 1: the way I am doing it, which Stephen has already mentioned he is a fan of (and like me would like more campaign mode sanctioned modules). The players cannot replay the AP/modules with other PFS characters towards credit. They have played the AP/modules and have had the goal of having fun. Option 2: the way your post makes you seem to be in favor of: the players player non-PFS campaign mode characters for no credit towards PFS characters. They then replay the APs/modules using PFS characters for credit. Thus, having them play through APs/modules they have already played (which the PFS rules advises against if)/ To everyone who thinks this is a bad idea: Explain why you think giving your home group of players using campaign mode characters( using non legal PFS characters) the option (and bonus) of allowing them to apply pregren credit towards PFS characters for APs/modules that they would not otherwise get UNLESS they run through the AP/module again. Overall, do you repeat the same adventures twice you run for your home group? Because by your stance of thinking my idea is a 'bad idea' then you apparently think the majority of Pathfinder players enjoy replaying modules/APs they have played already over playing modules/APs they have never played before. Some other information (which should have been obvious but apparently is not). Not all Pathfinder players prefer PFS over regular PF play. My players fall into the category of non-PFS preferred (so giving them the option I am gives them the best of both worlds/sides of things). PFS play is secondary for my group. Here is another thing to think about. Maybe you have a group of non-PFS players. (or a group of mixed players). The non-PFS players have no interest to play sanctioned 'restricted compared to campaign mode' and flat-out state they will not show up for such sessions. You might be able to persuade such players to at least apply credit towards a PFS character. That way there should such players ever change their minds, they will have PFS characters at the same level range as the rest of the players in your home group. It would kind of suck if down the line, your group goes to a convention to play in PFS scenarios...and some of the group can not play at the table the group chose to play at with their higher (than level 1) characters...because they did not do the very little work of creating a PFS number and character. In summary, it is NOT a lot of extra work for your players. It ensures that should a group decide to sign up together for a higher than level 1-2 scenario, they have the option of the whole group being able to do so.
>Tony Lindman and everyone else who misunderstood it: I, at no time, ever mentioned giving my players two chronicle sheets per sanctioned content. Their AP campaign mode characters are NOT getting chronicle sheets (they cannot period as I am using campaign mode using rules making their campaign PCs ineligible for chronicle sheets). The players (not AP campaign characters) are receiving chronicle sheets, which are being applied to their PFS characters. Tony, what gave you the impression I was planning on giving the players 2 chronicle sheets for each sanctioned content? In case what give you that impression was my question regarding if they can use my books. I know they can for the campaign mode. It is regarding their legal PFS characters I was asking about being able to make use of the books I (and the group has overall) regardless if player A is making use of a PF book that player B (or I) have which player A himself does not own.
>MisterSlanky: Thanks for the information. If it happens it will be a bonus. I have it set up so if the players want they can have their PFS characters get credit up to exactly the start of level 12. Stopping there I will mention to them is an option (so we have PFS characters ready to play in Seeker Arc modules at conventions. I plan to do the same thing with other sanctioned AP paths after Skulls and Shackles as well...so they will be able to get both options in time (lv 12 PFS characters eligible for seeker arc modules at cons as well as 'shelved' higher level PFS characters.
>Nefreet: They started as level 1 for the campaign. For the Lv 9 modules it will not be part of the campaign (in campaign it will give me the opportunity to make use of the some of the great story-arc ideas that the Isles of the Shackles and other nearby Campaign setting countries offer. Thank you for you input and advice. So you better understand there are no 'hiccups'. The AP characters are not 'skipping over' any levels/time frame. The PFS characters they are applying credit to are, but are NOT tied in any way to the AP characters (they are simply getting pregen credit applied to them). Think of it like this. The PFS characters are the 'stars' of a recap tv show...and certain things they do are done in-between episodes. The PFS characters are the ONLY ones who will receive Chronicle sheets, boons, etc. The AP characters are not receiving chronicle sheets (the players are receiving the chronicle sheets towards their PFS characters). I hope that was clear enough. The PFS characters they make are not 'swap out characters' to their AP characters. No 'pixie dust' treatment. Once they gain the pregen credit to reach lv 9 I will run the Lv 9 module(s) for them (again with no ties to their AP characters at all). Then as a group we will decide if they want to use their AP characters for Heroes of the Reborn Forge or use their PFS characters for that module. At no time will their ever be any 'beam x PC out and beam in y PC". The AP campaign will not have any 'break the continuity rule regarding gear' which PFS scenarios need in order to keep all PFS characters at the same level playing field. >Stephen: Yes, I hope Paizo starts making it staple to allow campaign mode allowed for all modules (and even better retroactively allowing previous modules as such). By doing so a home game could have a continuous 'makes sense' full-length campaign and applying credit to PFS characters. Regardless if they use the PFS characters for any actual scenarios. I will take an educated guess that I am not the only Pathfinder player who likes the esteem of having a high-level PFS character which is 'shelved' (not in danger of dying).
>Stephen Schopmeyer: My bad. Those two modules do not have it. I needed a sanctioned module for that specific level. So they will run through that module with either official pre-gens or with the PFS characters they have applied their pregen credit towards thus far during the AP campaign. I will also ask my players (once they reach the appropriate level) if they want to use the AP campaign mode PCs or their PFS characters for Heroes of the Reborn Forge. >Matt Lewis: 'bonus reward' I am simply referring to the fact that their campaign PCs level up as well as being able to level up their PFS characters as part of the pregen credit aspect of playing the AP, Plunder and Peril. They could play Heroes of the Reborn Forge in campaign mode or as standard mode with their PFS characters. So their PFS characters will play standard mode in levels 1,2 with the options of using them (instead of an iconic pregen)for level 9. They will also have the option of playing their PFS characters for levels 12,13 and 14 for Heroes of the Reborn Forge (so they can qualify for the Seeker Arc bonus chronicle sheet).
> Nefreet: Someone did mention sales prior. I accidentally posted the topic twice so it might have been one of the few posts from the other initial post. I also mentioned it as a preventive measure against any future posters who might see that as a reason that it should not be allowed. > StevenSchopmeyer: Yes, both the Harrowing and Doom Comes to Dustpawn have the campaign mode option. One of the first things I did was look for campaign mode allowed modules (after discovering Plunder and Peril offers it) so there would be no need to 'break from streamline campaign mode with their AP characters.
Thank you to all the people who replied with constructive and relevant answers. To summarize the purpose of my query in a different (and possibly easy to understand why) way: I am creating fun campaign for my players. For my players who also enjoy having PFS characters for standard mode play, applying credit towards a PFS character lets them get bonus reward. Some players also enjoy having the prestige of having a high-level character (and some might not like the idea of risking playing and having a favorite/invested PC die...and thus never play them after applying the 13 levels worth of pregen credit to his/her PFS PC. If my players did not like the idea of playing in campaign mode and applying pregen credit towards PFS characters then they would have told me so when I presented the idea to them. Hopefully between this post and my previous one, it has become clear to everyone now why my query was asked in the first place and how it is a smart inquiry. No one referenced another forum posted regarding the same query, and based on the high number of GM stars and posts by some it seems at least one of them would have been aware if another such similar query had been posted on the forums prior to mine. In short, my query was not just for the benefit of my group, but ALL players/GMs who like the idea of being able to run a smooth campaign mode campaign (not needing 'pixie dust' aspects) and still being able to receive credit towards PFS characters.
For the ones who have asked 'why even ask?' The answer is simple and straight forward. I wanted clarification that the players making use of my PF library is legal for them to use for their PFS characters that I run scenarios for. I was being a responsible GM and taking steps to ensure everything about their PFS characters are above board. What would have sucked is not getting clarification, having them invest in their PFS character ideas(for months) and then them being told their PFS characters are illegal. Finding out before they invest the time and pregen level credits instead of waiting to find out after they have spent months leveling up their PFS characters (via the campaign mode pregen credit) with the possibility of discovering that they were never allowed to use my books (because technically that is how the PFS rules are written). The consensus has given that the goal of PFS outweighs the 'technically' in this regard. They do not need to 'own' a copy of the book/pdf at my table (making use of my books/pdfs) as long as the PFS characters are only played at my table. Before they play their characters anywhere else they will need to ensure they have their own copy to be able to do so. For the potential naysayers sprouting 'but Paizo does not get sales that way'. They most certainly do: from me and only a portion of the PF books/pdfs I have are being made use of for my groups' PFS characters. If my group only purchased the books needed for our PFS characters (everyone buying their own books/pdfs needed) then the total amount of sales from my players and I would be considerably less. It seems like some who joined this discussion recently did not comprehend the purpose of why my query was asked in the first place.
In case a character dies in campaign mode: run a scenario of appropriate level that the players use pre-gens for. Then apply the credit to the PFS character of the player who had the PC die in campaign, and have the others apply the pre-gen credit to different PFS characters (thus keeping all their PFS primary (highest level) PCs at the same level. Naturally I will be reporting all the sanctioned content from the AP and modules I use (otherwise they would not receive level-up credit for their PFS characters).
I did that before we even started the campaign. I have been DM'ing for nearly 3 decades. It is not a terrible idea. Even if none of us actually get a chance to use our official PFS characters past level 3 (before pregen credit gets applied), one of the things the players get by completing the campaign (with their campaign mode PCs) is the added reward of gaining high-level official PFS characters. I could still run high-level PFS scenarios for their lv 16 PFS characters after they complete part 6 of S&S if the convention plan does not happen. I think it might just be you, Nefreet. In essence the players are getting rewarded 'twice' by leveling up their campaign mode PCs as well as applying pregen credit towards official PFS characters.
I already told them if allowed to use my books, they will need to get their own personal copies before playing them anywhere else. One of my goals is once we are done the campaign (two sessions a month so well over a year away) is the group doing a Paizo and/or GenCon vacation and playing our PFS PCs at a high level table. Thank you, everyone, for your input. Consensus has it that players can make use of other's players' (in this case mine) books for home games. >Nefreet: It is a combination of the Skulls and Shackles AP and some campaign mode allowed sanctioned modules. Breakdown is below. Note you could start at level 2 for credit with The Wormwood Mutiny, but then you would have to have them play through both The Harrowing and Doom Comes to Duskpawn. (or other campaign mode sanctioned modules that work for Lv 8 and Lv 9). Wormwood Mutiny (Lv3)
Thus giving my players (and myself) pregen credit that can be applied to official lv 3 PFS characters to level them up to level 16. Here's to hoping Paizo continues to make more campaign mode sanctioned modules. They allow campaigns not to need to 'switch back and forth' between campaign mode and non-campaign mode when running APs.
Nefreet, you misunderstand my query. I simply wanted to know if it is allowed for the players to make use of my books for their official (not pregen) PFS characters. Starting everyone at level 1 in campaign is what I did, but the chronicle sheets for the sanctioned parts of the AP and modules (which also allow campaign mode) only gets them credit from level 3 through level 15, not levels 1 and 2. Therefore they need official PFS characters at level 1 for the scenarios I run for them which must use the standard PFS rules. I am running the campaign mode most sessions. It is when we do not have all the players that I am running scenarios for the others so they can get their PFS characters leveled up to level 3 (so they can then apply the pregen credit from the campaign).
The campaign I am running (campaign mode) will give my players credit towards PFS characters from level 3 to level 15. I need to run level 1 and 2 scenarios for them. It is their official PFS characters (not 'pre-gen credit' PCs) I am looking for verification that it is legal for them to make use of my Pathfinder book collection for their characters, without them each personally needing to own a copy (hardcover or pdf) of any source books they need for their characters.
For the purposes of my home campaign PFS players, are they allowed to use books from my collection of Pathfinder books for their PFS characters? I know if they do that will not be able to play their PFS characters at another table unless they personally purchase the dead-tree or pdf of the relevant books they use options from for their characters. I am the one in my group who likes adding and having a large selection of gaming books for my preferred rpg (Pathfinder). As long as I (as the GM) is comfortable with my players using rules from sources I have (they are my books), does that make it legit for my players to make use of the (much more) character options for their PFS characters by making using of the many PF books I own?
Hi. I am running my group through the Skulls and Shackles AP, the Plunder and Peril module and the Wardens of the Reborn Forge. This will give them PFS credit from level 3 through level 15, with one missing level (either lv 8,9 or 10). Both modules allow the home-brew rules 'pre-gen credit) [Kudos, Paizo.] I would appreciate any shared knowledge so I can fill in the missing level (although I know my players will probably need to play official iconic pregens for it using the standard PFS rules). For those of you who are interested, the following order allows you to use home-brew campaigns towards PFS credit. Skulls and Shackles Part 1 (Wormwood Mutiny)(lv 2-4) (lv 3)
Skulls and Shackles Part 3 (Tempest Rising) (lv 7-9) (lv 8 or lv 9) Skulls and Shackles Part 4 (Island of Empty Eyes) (lv 9-11) (lv 9 or 10) Skulls and Shackles Part 5 (Hangman's Fortress) (lv 11-13) (lv 11)
The search feature did not bring up any obvious result that answered the below question. The Bull Rush Strike feat states that the movement caused by the bull rush (caused by the critical hit) does not provoke attacks of opportunity. It has Improved Bull Rush as a prerequisite, but not the Greater Bull Rush feat. If you have the Greater Bull Rush feat as well, then does the movement from the bull rush (from the critical hit) provoke attacks of opportunity?
Is there a character sheet that specifically incorporates the automatic level progression from Pathfinder Unchained? Kindly provide a link to whatever ones you know about. Thank you.
Thanks, Martin. The PFS guide states that the players do not need to use PFS characters, but it does not cover table size and such for AP that are being running through with non-official PFS characters. I have successfully printed out the AP Player's Guide. It took closing the tab the pdf was open in and opening up the file again a few times before it finally started printing correctly. So I would suggest that for anyone who has similar issues printing out any of the pdfs. I will be using Pathfinder (which I have referred to as the 'true 4th edition of D&D' since I first started playing/running it, since it is the obvious evolution from the 3.5 edition). Clarification please, Martin. Is not our PFS (player, not character) number only able to be created while we are logged into our personal account. Would not each individual player need to create his/her own Paizo account to then register and get a PFS account number? Did you mean I could create 10 new PFS numbers (using my player number as the prefix) which my players could use (with the specific character number attached to the character they play in PFS)?
Regarding legal table size for players using 'pre-gens' for credit in Advebbnture Paths. Is it okay if some of the players are PFS members (who will put credit towards one of their official PFS characters) and players who want to play PF (and the AP) but do not want to be part of the PFS? If the following is allowed...how does legal table limit work? A) the players who will be putting the AP towards PFS credit must make a legal table (with the non-PFS players being ignored for legal table purposes); OR B) the total number of players at the table (PFS and non-PFS members) must constitute the legal table limit of 4-6 characters. If the GM needs to play a pre-gen in an AP (in which players are using non-PFS characters towards PFS character credit) does the pre-gen the GM runs also have the removal of standard PFS legal characters? (see next paragraph for an example). I am going to be using the wounds and vigour system (modified slightly so Constitution bonus applies to vigour points as well as wound points - see next paragraph for why I modify the wounds and vigour posts). So all my players at the table will have PCs using wounds and vigour. If needed I will run a pre-gen for the sanctioned sections of the AP. Will my pre-gen NPC have to use the standard pre-gens unmodified or would they have the wounds and vigour added to their stats because all the PCs have wounds and vigour. Since players' 'pre-gens' they use in an AP do not have to be official pre-gens for PFS play, does that mean a pre-gen the GM plays (if needed to make a legal table) not have to be one of the official PFS pre-gen characters as well? A generic question/clarification regarding GMs playing a pre-gen for the purposes of making a table legal. The legal table size is 4 to 6 players. I know the PFS scenarios have level range tiers so you can run them for PCs of different levels. Do they also modify things based on the number of players playing? (for example does a party of 4 PCs face the exact same threats/encounters as a party of 6 PCs do?) If they do...then has PFS 'guildmasters' consider allowing GMs (for home games at least) to play a pre-gen as long as doing so does not increase the table above the legal limit of 6? Many GMs across the globe enjoy table-top gaming and would like to have and play their own PCs but are the only GM in the group/area. So regarding home table games would appreciate the option of being able to play pre-gens even if they do not need to to make a legal table. For example people in small town/villages (with no large town/city within 2 hours (and possibly no public transit to the closest larger town/city) might be part of the only group in the town/village (or even a group of villages/small towns) and has a group of 4 to 5 players. The GM can get credit towards official PFS characters of his own (BUT will never be able to play them as he is the only person to run PFS in possibly a 100+ mile radius). He dutifully runs PFS for his 4-5 players, but since they already constitute a legal table size, by the rules (presented in the PFS guide) he is not allowed to run a pre-gen (so he is continually running the games but never gets the privilege/pleasure of actually being able to run a PFS character. To avoid possible conflict of interest if allowed he simply only be allowed to run official pre-gens. For some of you reading the above who think such a situation does not occur - that was my situation where I was raised (albeit PFS and PF did not exist - but that is how it would have impacted my enjoyment of the game - wanting to play my own official character but not being allowed to regardless of how many years I ran official games for my gaming group.
Does anyone know why the Skulls and Shackles Player's Guide (and possibly Part of 1 of the AP) does not print out properly? It prints about the top 1/5 of the first page I send to the printer and the rest of the sheet (and all subsequent sheets) are blank. I have successfully printed out the Inner Sea Primer without an issue (before and after discovering the issue with the Skull and Shackles Player's Guide and AP). Anyone know how to resolve this as it has to be coming from the pdf side of things and not the printer.
Ah, that is why I could not find it in the AP products thus far (was still browsing...). Thank you, everyone. Clarification, please: I am going to be running adventure paths (with sanctioned content) for my players. The first level range is 2-4. This means the players have two options: wait until they reach level 2 with an existing PFS character and then apply the Chronicle sheet to it OR apply the Chronicle sheet to a brand new lv 1 PFS character (with reduced gold). Is this correct? When they play through the next sanctioned part (lv 5-7), do they have to apply PFS credit to the same character they applied the previous sanctioned section to, OR can they apply the credit to ANY of their PFS characters? |
