Anthony Kane's page

FYI: Some of you may have encountered issues due to the privacy setting of my Google Doc. I thought I had it set so that anyone could view. Apparently that was not the case.

Anyway, I have corrected the access. Anyone should be able to view it now.

The Expanded Warlock Class, a Pathfinder 1E Conversion & Expansion

Link to my Google Document: The Expanded Warlock Class Ver. 1-2

Well... Here is my take on converting the 3.5 Warlock, from Dungeon & Dragons: Complete Arcane, to Pathfinder: First Edition. I'm going to state up front, that this is not a straight 1:1 conversion, although you will find something akin to that in the very back of the document. Instead, this document was intended not only to convert the 3.5 Warlock, but also update and expand the class to be at the same level of the updated Core Classes as well as the base classes published by Paizo.

That wouldn't have been possible, keeping the Warlock as a straight 1:1 conversion. The class, in its original form, was simply too weak. Warlock's in D&D 3.5 were often pigeon holed into either being an okay damage dealer, with Eldritch Blast, or having a few really good "save or suck" invocations. Every melee warlock used Eldritch Glaive or Eldritch Claws. The class really didn't have a whole lot to do, besides, Eldritch Blast.

So what's different?

1st: All warlocks have Patrons now with whom they form a pact with. No longer are you railroaded into having your powers granted by chaotic fey creatures or devils. You get to choose from 6 different Patrons: The Celestial, The Fiend, The Archfey, The Great Old Ones, The Shadow and the Undead. All who add their own unique powers to the Warlock class. What makes them different from Sorcerers? Sorcerer's get their magic through inheritance, with magic being in their bloodlines. Warlocks make Pacts with these Patrons to get their abilities. A subtle but meaningful difference.

2nd: The Eldritch Blast has been reworked. Gone is the wonky progression that slowed down after level 11. The Eldritch blast now progresses at every odd level up to 10d6 at level 19. Also, blast shapes and essence invocations have been moved into a new al-carte feature, called Eldritch Secrets, which are very similar to alchemist discoveries, rogue talents, and other "pick and choose" lists that Pathfinder classes are known for. This means you no longer have to choose between being good with the Eldritch Blast vs. having useful invocations. It gives the warlock more options which helps to expand its play-ability.

3rd: Eldritch Secrets gained at every even level. As stated previously these are very similar Alchemist Discoveries, Rogue Talents or any other "pick and choose" list. They are meant to help you customize your warlock with various abilities that don't necessarily fit within the scope of an invocation.

4th: Expanded Invocations. I really tried to expand the Warlock's invocation options, giving them more to choose from. This was a delicate balancing act, since warlocks can use their invocations "at will". That meant I had to be very careful when it came to buffs, or anything that dealt damage. Still I hope the expanded invocations will prove to be useful. You may notice that you get 2 invocations at level 1, and cap out with 13 invocations at level 20. This was done intentionally to expand the warlock's versatility, especially at the early levels, but also because blast shapes and essences where reworked into the Eldritch Secrets, so you don't get access to them until level 2.

Finally This is meant to be a comprehensive guide. I did my best to make sure anyone wanting to play with this class has all the materials they will ever need in this document. That means feats that are specific to the Warlock. Warlock specific Magic items. Race specific favored class bonuses. Everything this class needs, should be in this guide.

Now I finally feel like this document is ready for presentation. So I've linked the PDF above. Please feel free to download it and play with it. Test it out. See what works and what doesn't. I'm really hoping some of you die hard warlock fans will test out this conversion, because I would really like feedback.

PLAY TESTING

I'm going to check in on this thread from week to week. If you decide to play test this creation of mine, post your observations and results. Tell me if something is broken or doesn't work. I feel as though the conversion has reached a point where the only way to trouble shoot it, is through play-testing. So lets play test it and post our results.

Once I have gathered a enough feed back, I will look at going back into the document to edit and revise it further.

Enjoy
-AK

Pretty sure a human ruffians can sneak attack with a bastard sword, but not two handing it. There is some language that caps your weapon dice at d8s. So any two handed weapon with d8 dice is up for grabs.

I've read through Ruffian and Sneak Attack, and it seems like Ruffian specifies that it only applies Sneak Attack to simple weapons. As the Bastard Sword is martial it would not qualify, nor does it have any of the weapon traits that would normally allow it to be used with Sneak Attack.

Unless there's a specific human ability that I'm missing.

Or are you suggesting using Unconventional weaponry to select the martial weapon: Bastard Sword, and then claim it as "common" in another culture, thus gaining access to the weapon and reclassifying it from a martial to a simple weapon proficiency?

I should clarify that I'm trying to pull off sneak attack with a Bastard Sword. No I don't care if its "sub-optimal" or a "bad choice". I don't want to use a different weapon. I'm trying to see if the new rules set would allow the updating of an existing fighter/rogue character.

That being said, I understand this is just the Core Rulebook so I may be somewhat limited in options given that there is just not as much material as there was in PF 1E.

(Sidenote: I did check to see if the Sunblade was still a weapon and once again to my disappointment, its not.)

I know some people are going to roll their eyes at this question and make comments that its not fitting for sneak attack to work with big weapons, ect. But in all seriousness this was something that was possible in PF 1E. It seems like its no longer possible. Just wondering if I'm missing something.

Anthony Kane wrote:

Explosives Expert (Ex)

-At 3rd level the demolitionist becomes intimately familiar with using bombs to their maximum effect. He gains a +1 bonus to hit and a +1 bonus to Damage. Against structures this bonus to damage is per die of bomb damage. These bonuses increases by an additional +1 every three levels thereafter.

Demolitions Expert (Ex)
-At 8th level the demolitionist becomes a master at bringing down structures whenever he can identify their weaknesses. If he identifies a structure's weaknesses using a successful Knowledge (Engineering) check, any bomb he uses against the structure is treated as an automatically confirmed critical hit, dealing double damage, and ignoring the structures hardness.

While I appreciate the gesture, these benefits are not nearly enough to actually make the character good at breaking through walls. As objects, structures naturally take half damage from energy damage. The flimsiest structural wall is a wooden wall, which has 60 hit points. At 8th level (presuming 18 intelligence) when you get this ability your bomb will deal 4d6+8 damage against objects; after the automatic critical hit, double damage, and half damage from hitting objects, you're dealing an average of 44 damage per bomb. This means you need to throw two bombs to break through even the most basic of wooden walls, and even then you could fall short with low rolls.

This is lower than what melee characters with adamantine weapons (which ignore hardness) can achieve. A character 22 strength, power attack, and a +2 adamantine greatsword deals 2d6+20 damage for an average of 27. On a full attack with 2 attacks that would give him an average 54 damage, more than what you can achieve with a bomb. Because basic weapon attacks have no limit per day he can continue to deal additional damage at no cost and can easily handle heavier masonry. For instance, 5 feet of solid stone (900 hp) would take less than 2 minutes to break through.

If you want to create a useful wall destruction...

Alright so hows this:

Engineering
-The Demolitionist adds half his class level as a bonus on all Knowledge Engineering checks to find structural weaknesses and on all Disable Device checks. A successful check allows the demolitionist to deal full damage against an object or structure. Also if a demolitionist deals bomb damage to an object or structure and the to hit roll results in a Critical Hit, if confirmed, then the bomb deals critical hit damage to the object or structure.

This should mean you now deal full damage to an object (provided you make you Knowledge Engineering check) and still deal critical hit damage.

And we can alter Explosives Expert slightly with the following
Explosives Expert (Ex)
-At 3rd level the demolitionist becomes intimately familiar with using bombs to their maximum effect. He gains a +1 bonus to hit and a +1 bonus to Damage. Against structures his bomb damage increases from D6s to D8s, and the bonus to damage is per die of bomb damage. These bonuses increases by an additional +1 every three levels thereafter.

So assuming 5s are the average damage on D8s, according to the math that would now be 5D8+8+Int damage. So base of 20 damage, doubled from the auto critical 40, + 8 bonus damage, + 4 int mod is 52. Which I would say is in the ball park.

Now mind you at level 9 this would then become a base of 25, critical makes it 50, + 15 bonus, +4 Int, would be 69 damage.

You could further increase this damage by taking the discovery: Demolition Charge to gain an additional 2d6 bomb damage, which in this case would make them an additional 2D8s.

Finally we could make this modification to
Demolitions Expert (Ex)
-At 8th level the demolitionist becomes a master at bringing down structures whenever he can identify their weaknesses. First he reduces an object or structure's break DC by an amount equal to his Demolitionist class level. Second, If he identifies a structure's weaknesses using a successful Knowledge (Engineering) check, any bomb he uses against the structure allows him to make a Knowledge (Engineering) check vs its (reduced) Break DC. If the object or structure fails it immediately collapses as if reduced to 0hp. Even if the demolitionist fails to overcome the break DC the bomb is still treated as an automatically confirmed critical hit, dealing double damage, and ignoring the structures hardness.

Anthony Kane wrote:

Engineering
-The Demolitionist adds half his class level as a bonus on all Knowledge Engineering checks to find structural weaknesses and on...

You never actually give ability to deal critical hits to objects. You should make that explicit.

I mean, you are trying but you should make it allowed.

Pretty sure I did.

Engineering
-The Demolitionist adds half his class level as a bonus on all Knowledge Engineering checks to find structural weaknesses and on all Disable Device checks. Also if a demolitionist deals bomb damage to an object or structure and the to hit roll results in a Critical Hit, if confirmed, then the bomb deals critical hit damage to the object or structure.

Rogue Archetype: The Demolitionist

Revisited an old Rogue Archetype I once came up with. Original Here Went through it, tore it apart, and rebuilt it. Thoughts and comments welcome. Enjoy

“There is no problem that cannot be solved through the careful application of high explosives.”

The Demolitionist is an expert in explosives. With a bomb he can take out a wall, wreak havoc amongst his enemies, and set deadly traps for the unsuspecting. They are not the kind of Rogue that stabs you in the back, they are the kind that puts a bomb in your room before you go to bed at night, or lobs one in your general direction during the heat of battle. While they lack the variety of infusions that an Alchemist may possess, they are every bit as deadly with the bombs they make, and most are happy with knowing just enough alchemy “to be dangerous”.

Skills:
The Demolitionist replaces Knowledge (Dungeoneering) with Knowledge Enginerring.

Bomb (Su)
-At 1st level, a demolitionist gains the bomb class feature of an alchemist of the same level. The demolitionist treats his rogue level as his alchemist level for the purposes of qualifying for feats and discoveries that modify the bomb class feature. If the character already has the bomb class feature from another class, the levels from the classes that grant the bomb class feature stack to determine the effective alchemist level for the bomb’s extra damage dice (so an alchemist 1/ demolitionist 1 deals 1d6 + Int damage with a bomb like a 2nd level alchemist, a demolitionist 2/ alchemist 1 deals 2d6 bomb + Int damage like a 3rd alchemist, and so on.)

The Demolitionist also gains Throw Anything as a Bonus feat at 1st level.

This ability replaces Sneak Attack.

Engineering
-The Demolitionist adds half his class level as a bonus on all Knowledge Engineering checks to find structural weaknesses and on all Disable Device checks. Also if a demolitionist deals bomb damage to an object or structure and the to hit roll results in a Critical Hit, if confirmed, then the bomb deals critical hit damage to the object or structure.

This ability replaces Trap Finding

Explosive Rogue Talents:
-A demolitionist rogue may take any alchemist Discovery that modifies the bomb class feature provided he meets the discovery's prerequisites, as a Rogue Talent. He may not take any Rogue Talents that modify the Sneak Attack rogue class ability.

Delayed Bomb (Su)
-The demolitionist gains the Delayed Bomb discovery as a Rogue Talent at 2nd level even though he does not meed the prerequisites.

This ability replaces the Rogue Talent normally gained at 2nd level.

Explosives Expert (Ex)
-At 3rd level the demolitionist becomes intimately familiar with using bombs to their maximum effect. He gains a +1 bonus to hit and a +1 bonus to Damage. Against structures this bonus to damage is per die of bomb damage. These bonuses increases by an additional +1 every three levels thereafter.

This ability replaces Trap Sense

Explosive Disarm (Ex)
-At 4th level, a demolitionist can attempt to disarm a mechanical trap by detonating it rather than disarming it with a Disable Device check. As a full-round action, a demolitionist may expend one of his bombs to make a ranged touch attack against a trap, using the trap’s Disable Device DC as its AC. If the attack misses, the bomb’s splash damage activates the trap. If the attack hits, the bomb deactivates the trap without setting it off. The demolitionist must both know the location of the trap and be able to reach the trap’s trigger with a ranged touch attack in order to use this ability.

At 7th level, a demolitionist can disarm magic traps with this ability.

This ability replaces Uncanny Dodge

Demolitions Expert (Ex)
-At 8th level the demolitionist becomes a master at bringing down structures whenever he can identify their weaknesses. If he identifies a structure's weaknesses using a successful Knowledge (Engineering) check, any bomb he uses against the structure is treated as an automatically confirmed critical hit, dealing double damage, and ignoring the structures hardness.

This ability replaces Improved Uncanny Dodge

Bomb Mastery (Ex)
-At 20th level a Demolitionist becomes a deadly master with the art of using explosives. First anyone caught within the splash radius of his bombs takes splash damage as if they had received a direct hit from the bomb. Second any creature reduced to 0 or fewer hit points from a demolitionist's bomb must make an immediate Fortitude saving throw, DC 10 + ½ Demoltionist level + Intelligence Modifier, or be completely destroyed, leaving behind no body or equipment, just a trace of fine dust. If the save is successful then they are immune to this effect (but not further bomb damage) for 24 hours. The Demolitonist can choose not to apply the secondary effect of this ability but must do so before the bomb is thrown as a weapon.

This ability replaces Master Strike.
____________________________________________________________________

Pretty much I wanted to streamline and revise the Archetype. I feel as though this one comes closer to actually being able to Demolish buildings, walls and structures while still being deadly proficient with Bombs.

I know Paizo has released "The Underground Chemist" as well as the Bomber and Bomber Discovery Rogue Talents. But they don't really mesh well into a unified whole, primarily because the Bomber and Bomber discovery Rogue Talents are so poorly written, with no errata to date. Also the Underground Chemist, while being good with splash weapons, really isn't good at Demolitions.

I wanted to make a rogue that uses explosives like other rogues use a set of lock picks. He comes up against a solid lock, can't pick it, blow it up. Trap, why get close, blow it up. Set an ambush with delayed bombs, watch em walk into your trap, blow'em up. Is that wall a problem, BLOW IT UP.

And to date I've yet to find any Alchemist or Bomb archetype that does this.

So here he is, the Demolitionist. He's not necessarily your sneaky back stabby rogue, he's that rogue who's going to blow up the bridge over the river before the King's Horses run you down, stage a jail break by making you an exit, and smile gleefully with a firing pin between his teeth as he lobs a bomb at his enemies.

I Know the thread asked for Video Game Enemies, but.... I have one enemy that while not from a Video Game, has had such a negative reaction from people, that I've actually had players threaten to quick if I ever unleash them.

TWO WORDS: WEEPING. ANGELS.
Here's another two words: DON'T BLINK

If you're going to make magic a sub-optimal solution, it helps if the spellcasters have something useful they can do BESIDES spellcasting. (Unlike a D&D wizard who without spells is a glorified Commoner.)

Forgive me if I don't see the issue with Nerfing casters. If anything, its an easier way to balance the system than making every non-caster step up a notch.

And magic did use to have consequences. Certain spells did cost you XP and/or levels. Material Components use to matter.

I really am of the camp that if you want the Wizard to cast Wish for you, THEN YOU NEED TO GIVE HIM A DAMN GOOD REASON TO DO SO. Because it should cost him XP/Levels. It should be at GREAT RISK to him. When you start to manipulate the universe with spells near potent to that of a god then there should be a significant risk vs. reward.

Casters have gotten off easy in the 3.X series. They need to be taken down a notch. And I see nothing wrong with making them pay for the power they want to wield in game.

I think that this goes right along with one of the many problems of the 3.X systems. A FEAT OR RULE IS NEEDED TO DO EVERYTHING. And I mean everything. Standing up, yup there are rules and feats and all sorts of stuff for that. Sleeping, we got feats and rules for that. Sick? What level of sick are we talking about because there are all sorts of different rules for being "sick". Are you sickened, nauseated, or do you have your ass planted on the crapper, while simultaneously projectile vomiting, along with a stream of Hersey's syrup firing our the back end. AND IF SO IF I AIM MY VOMIT AT A SQUARE CAN I MAKE OTHER CREATURES SICKENED ALONG WITH ME. AND BY THE WAY GM, WHAT SHOULD THE SAVE DC BE FOR THEM TO RESIST CATCHING WHATEVER PLAGUE I HAVE?

Seriously I'm surprised there hasn't been a rules set made up for using the bathroom.

The sad/funny thing about D&D is it didn't always use to be this way. There was a point in time where DMs where actually encouraged to use a bit of (DARE I SAY IT?) COMMON SENSE.

Ultimately, while I do agree that if we're going to allow Dragons and Fireballs then we should allow for free weapon drawing and sheathing without a feat, I don't think that's the real issue here. I don't think the issue is about what breaks the realism in the game.

No I think what people are really b!$~$ing about is two things:
-CASTERS and the Expectation of "Class Balance". Somewhere in the last 15 years of gaming people have started to assume that their Fighter should be able to do crazy things on part with the Wizard. Sorry, but that is just stupid. No matter the level of realism, expecting your Fighter to be able to keep up with the Wizard in terms of coolness factor is just silly. Even in the world of Tolkien the Fighters didn't keep up with Gandalf. I just didn't happen.

-Being Feat Taxed to Death: This is the other side of the coin here. Because while I don't think Casters need to be nerfed, I do think the rest of the classes get screwed spending what limited resources they do have just to be 1/10th as cool as a caster. You wind up spending you limited number of feats on stuff just to do your basic job well (never mind being cool at it) or to make up for class weaknesses. Meanwhile the Wizard is just sitting back and breaking reality with his spells.

Unfortunately this is the 3.X world we play in. Use some common sense and stop looking for the publishers to make every single option under the sun. Because unless you're playing in some "Official Gaming Society" then the rules should be fluid, and you should be able to decide for yourself what level of "Realism" you want at your table.

[END RANT]

As much as I just want to say that its my game and my opinion is final at my own table, it still would be nice if we knew how it was originally intended to work. Because when I have to make a ruling on it, I don't want it to seem arbitrary or like I favor a particular class. Also I'm loathe to use 3rd party material because I never know if its balanced compared to core products which I consider a baseline to make judgements. When core products are poorly written like this, and I have to start "assuming", it makes me feel like I'm no better than a 3rd party that's twisting material to fit my own needs.

And you're right, the errata often doesn't come out fast enough, unless its a glaringly HUGE system issue that needs immediate attention.

The problem is that they didn't give much information for either of these Talents. This leaves a lot to be assumed by both the DM and player. Strictly going by the wording for Bomber: These bombs act as alchemist's bombs, except they deal damage equal to the damage dealt by the rogue's sneak attack (the rogue doesn't add her Intelligence modifier to this damage). one would assume anything that brings the save DC into play means its 10 + 1/2 Level? + Intelligence Mod. But is that really the case? Because one could try and argue your Alchemist Level is technically 0 which makes anything Save DC related suck. But that seems stupid. On the other hand you also argue that your Rogue Level is your alchemist level, but nowhere in the talent description does it explicitly state that.

Then there is the issue with Bomber's Discovery. If assuming your Rogue Level is treated as your alchemist level for the purpose of determining save DCs one could also assume that you would also use that to determine what Bomb Related Discoveries you could qualify for if there is an Alchemist level prerequisite. If this is not the case it really restricts what Bomb Related Discoveries you can take. And there is no mention as to if this is a Rogue Talent that can be taken more than once. If you can only take it once then it really sucks because that means every single Rogue will probably pick the Bomb Discovery. But if you allow people to sink multiple Rogue Talents into it then you could get more variety with your bombs.

I just hate it when the write something half assed like this. It has the potential to be good and give something back to the rogue. But its just so poorly written.

I have a question about these talents. It doesn't say so in either Talent specifically, but Does my Rogue Level count as my Alchemist Level for the purpose of determining what Bomb related Discoveries I can take with Bomber's Discovery. Is this a misprint? Also, for things like saving throw DC's do I simply calculate that as would an Alchemist: 10 + 1/2 Rogue level + Intelligence modifier.

Can Bomber's Discovery be taken multiple times: so that you can get several different ways to modify your bombs, are are you only able to take this discovery once?

I like both discoveries, but their wording is sparse and levels a lot to be assumed.

Can we get some clarification please?

Links:
Bomber's Discovery

Bomber

I'm going to say what everyone else here is thinking: Why bother?

Your DM is gimping you from the start, which in turn is forcing you to focus more on a "build" than a character, just so you can mechanically play the game.

Yeah sure you can mitigate it by focusing on SAD classes and builds that work around this limitation, but once again I ask, why bother?

I can understand low magic games where treasure is rare and players are forced to rely mostly on PC ability rather than what Item they can pull out of their bag of holding.

I can understand games where certain classes are restricted or banned for the sake of campaign flavor.

But a 10 point buy. That just sucks, plain and simple.

A couple of points that I want to make:
1st: THE WARLOCK IS NOT A BROKEN CLASS. It never has been and never will be. It is a one trick pony (its Elderitch Blast) and that trick isn't even that good. People seem to think that unlimited blasting is broken. Its not, for the simple reason that Damage becomes less and less important as you go up in level. When compared to what an actual caster can do with save or die, or save or suck spells, damage is pale in comparison.

This is also true of the Warlock's unlimited use of Invocations. Yes they can spam certain ones all day, but when you really look at it, the good ones either last for 24 hours, or are very niche. That's going to mean the Warlock will have a few really good tricks they can do all day long, but outside of those situations where those tricks will be useful, they are not going to have the sheer versatility that an actual caster will have with standard spells.

That much being said you can do whatever you want to the Eldritch Blast, but unless you make it stupid broken, it should be fine. If you keep it limited to one blast per round then I would suggest leaving it as an at will ability. If you decide to limit the number of Blasts a Warlock can do per day considering handling much like the Alchemist Bomb ability with feats that let you get more Blasts per day as well as an ability a character can choose to invest in to attack multiple times per round with it.

This leads me to another point. Rather than turning the Blast Essence and Shape invocations into feats, consider handling those like Alchemist Discoveries while also providing a simple feat (extra Blast Shape and Extra Blast Essence).

I like how you are trying to fuse the Binder into the Warlock. I think this is a good idea that can definitely use some refinement.

Ultimately the Warlock is an underpowered one trick pony of a class. I like what you are doing but it needs more refinement.

Good luck

Run DARK SUN on the world of Athas.

No Gods. Gods can't exist because the world of Athas is incapable of supporting divine accession.

Clerics get their power from worshiping Elemental powers. Druids are similar.

The only beings that can grant divine spells like gods are the Evil Sorcerer Kings. And all their Templars are loyal to them.

or

Option number 2. Get a copy of D&D Unearthed Arcana. Disallow divine magic period. And play with the "Injury System" that replaces hit points. The gist of the system works like this.

-There are no Hit points.
-Whenever a character takes damage divide the damage by 5 rounded up. This is the Damage Value of the attack. You then make a fortitude Save vs a DC of 15+ The Damage Value. If you succeed you suffer no ill effect. If you fail consult the following:

Failed by 1 to 9: Hit suffer a cumulative -1 penalty to Fortitude saves to resist injury.
Failed by 10 or more: Disabled
*If a character is disabled and suffers a hit they start Dying.

Dying characters must make a Fortitude Save vs a starting DC of 10 (+1 to the DC per round) in order to remain alive. If they fail a Fortitude save at this point they die. If they succeed by 5 or less they survive but their condition does not improve. If they succeed by 5 or more but less than 10 they become stable, but remain unconscious. If they succeed by 10 or more they become conscious but disabled.

Classes I'd like to see

-Warlock: NO THE WITCH IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. It is a 1/2 BAB, Intelligence Based Caster (which I think should have been a Wizard Alternate class). So that means if your favorite character was a 3.5 Warlock and you want to convert to Pathfinder, you either A.) have to complete redesign the character concept around Intelligence, or B.) You're S#$% out of Luck.

I want at will Spell-like abilities, I want an at will Energy blast, and I want it mixed in with making different Pacts with different entities.

-Doctor/Combat Medic: There is a definite HOLE in the healing classes that needs to be filled. Yes the cleric is a better Magical Healer. But more often in movies or literature the "Healer" isn't casting a healing spell, they are bandaging up the wounds of their comrades. Currently there is nothing to use to this character concept.

The Chirurgeon archetype gets part of the way there, but it doesn't go far enough (IMO).

-An Engineer/Artificer: I want a class that is good at Building and Repairing things that can accomplish Spell like effects but with gear head/technology based abilities. I was hopeful to see something like this come out in the most recent Technology Guide and I was disappointed to find nothing of the sort...

-Binder: Pact magic. Yes please. Hell, maybe even fuse it together with the Warlock.

-I would love a dedicated shape shifter. Maybe something modeled along the Synthesist Archetype, but as a full base class, where as you gain levels you can add Eidolon evolutions to YOURSELF, and still have the flexibility to change those evolutions (kind of like the Martial Versatility thing the brawler has going on).

There are still a lot of different character types that have yet to be represented by any of the existing core, base, hybrid classes. If any more new classes come out I would like to see Paizo pioneer NEW CLASSES with new abilities.

I honestly don't know. If I was the DM, I'd rule that you could take the extra discovery feat, but only to take discoveries that the Mutation Warrior Archetype allows you to take. RAW is unclear, so it probably needs to be clarified at some point, I think.

See If I allowed it, this is the restriction I would place on it as well. That you can only take discoveries drawn from those available to the Mutation Warrior.

The feat says discovery class feature. The fighter gains mutagen discovery class feature. And since it's not replacing Discovery class feature it doesn't tie into the whole "if a feature replaces a feature and is similar it counts as that feature." This is how I'm understanding this.

I can understand where you are coming from with this. The only thing I would say is that both abilities allow you to gain "Discoveries", but the Mutation Warrior has a much smaller list to draw from. In this case you can't replace the "Discovery" class feature because the fighter doesn't have that. They replaced Armor Training and gave him a "Discovery Light" class feature. And when compared side by side, one could say Mutagen Discovery is similar to the standard Discovery class feature.

Long story short: EDITORS AND DESIGNERS NEED TO BE VERY CLEAR AND SPECIFIC WHEN DESIGNING ALTERNATE CLASS FEATURES AND NAMING THINGS

I think it's no

This would be my initial thought as well, but the word Discovery is in this class feature, and its a more limited version of the standard "Discovery" class feature. So I'm looking for some type of clarification or reasoning as to why it would or would not meet the feats prerequisite.

I can see where you're getting that interpretation and why. The first thing you need to do is divorce yourself from any bias you may have, because that will greatly influence how you "read" the feat's description.

As written, the feat only grants your proficiency with 1 weapon each time the feat is selected. Which it should. If you need 1 specific weapon for a build that falls outside the preview of your class, paying 1 feat for it isn't that much to ask.

If you want to be proficient with more than 1 martial weapon, well there always Multi-classing for that.

The reason why I lean towards what is written in the book is that it specifies 1 type of weapon, NOT 1 group of weapons. Had it said "Group" rather than "Type" I would be on board with your interpretation. But that's not what it says. Also if we go by the word "Type" then that wold mean you would gain proficiency with all Martial Weapons of that TYPE (Slashing, Bludgeon, and Piercing) which would be way over powered for 1 feat.

On a side note, if you're going to take the Knife Master, burn the Feat, make your weapon the Kukri, and also pick up the scout archtype. Have fun shredding anything that walks into your path :)

[ACG][Archtype: Mutation Warrior][Mutagen Discovery class feature]
Does this count as "Discovery" for the Extra Discoveries Feat?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/extra-discovery

Extra Discovery

You have made a new alchemical discovery.

Prerequisite: Discovery class feature.

Benefit: You gain one additional discovery. You must meet all of the prerequisites for this discovery.

Special: You can gain Extra Discovery multiple times.

-If the Answer to this is yes then it opens up some possibilities. The question here is can "Mutagen Discovery" be counted as "Discovery" for the purpose of meeting the feats prerequisite?

-If the Answer to this is no (which I suspect its going to be) then its not a big deal. (I figure that they are going to classify it as two separate class features that just share a common word).

I like it. I see unlimited nukes/spells as an issue because it means it denies the GM the ability to use attrition, so I'm glad the bombs have limited use.

I agree with Ciaran Barnes that I would like to see demolitionist talents. In particular, I see very few abilities here that involve actually blowing up structures, despite the name of the class. When running a game with an alchemist, we always have the conversation of wishing the alchemist could do things like rig explosives to blow up structures, like a wall or something. We ultimately decide against homebrewing some solution because the alchemist's bombs are basically glorified molotov cocktails. With an archetype called "the demolitionist" I'm expecting something more than the bombs class feature imported to another class. The archetype does deliver (I love mines and explosive disarm), but I actually want to see more.

Perhaps a talent that enables the rogue to spend 5 minutes planting a bomb on a structure that enables him to break the object with a successful engineering check?

Weapons/Spells and abilities that deal damage can still deal damage directly to objects right? You just need to overcome their hardness and still deal enough damage to brink the object to 0 Hit Points.

I guess I just imagined at lower levels he'd be using most of his bombs to blast through doors, set up traps, and towards higher levels when he starts ignoring hardness then he'd start attacking large scale structures...

but here's an idea for you.

Simply replace Precise Bombs (Ex)

At 3rd level, a demolitionist gains the precise bombs alchemist discovery as a bonus discovery.

This ability replaces Trap Sense +1

WITH...

Delayed Bomb (Ex)
At 3rd level, a demolitionist gains the Delayed Bomb alchemist discovery even if he does not meet the prerequisites.

Benefit: The alchemist can place a bomb so that it explodes a number of rounds after the alchemist ceases contact with the bomb. This delay can be any number of rounds as chosen by the alchemist, up to a number of rounds equal to his level. If at any point the alchemist reclaims possession of the delayed bomb, he can end the timer and prevent the bomb’s detonation. A delayed bomb detonates immediately if any other creature attempts to touch or move it, or if the bomb’s contents are removed from the vial (such as if the vial breaks). The bomb deals damage as if it scored a direct hit to any creature in the square with the bomb when it detonates, and splash damage (see Throw Splash Weapon) to all adjacent creatures as normal. An alchemist cannot have more than one delayed bomb at one time. If he creates another delayed bomb, the previous bomb becomes inert. Dispel magic can neutralize a delayed bomb, as can a successful Disable Device check (DC equals 10 + the alchemist’s level + the alchemist’s Intelligence modifier).

This ability replaces Trap Sense +1.

Also people have been checking the D20PFSRD right?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/discoveries

Because there are a lot more discoveries (Paizo Published) than what is listed in the Advanced Class Guide, Ultimate Magic and Ultimate Combat. And also I hope everyone read that last part under Bomb that Demolitionist can use Rogue Talents to take Bomb related discoveries and they treat their Demolitionist Class Level as their Alchemist level for the purposes of qualifying for those discoveries...

Anyway hope this helps

I really like the concept, but only criticism is helpful, so here goes.

I don't like how you've turned each +1 of Trap Sense into a class feature. Each +1 is not worth a class feature. Also, I think that keeping Trap Sense would be thematically appropriate.

What I would do is create a list of Demolitionist Talents (or whatever name you like) that is comprised Rogue Talents and Alchemist Discoveries of your choice, plus several new ones of your design. If there are abilities you think are so important to the class that you don't want choosing them to be a talent tax, then put those in place of Trapfinding, Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, and Improved Uncanny Dodge. I would keep Trap Sense.

Just my opinion.

I can see where you are coming from with this. The issue ultimately stems from the Rogue's Lack of Class Features, and this is an issue with D&D 3.0 thru Pathfinder.

-But lets for a moment look at another class that has replaced a similar ability with class features: The Alchemist. Several of the archetypes fully replace Poison Resistance with either 1 ability or several.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist

-One could argue that most of the abilities here, barring the replacement of sneak attack with the bombs class feature could all be rolled into Rogue Talents and picked ala-carte. But the same could be argued for just about any of the classes with Rogue Talent, Discoveries, Hexes, ect...

So when I designed these class abilities to replace Trap Sense, I tried to make them so that they would scale up already existing abilities that the archetype gave it. Especially once I got beyond 10th level. So while it looks like I gave out a lot for a simple scaling ability, all I've really done is made that ability more powerful as the archetype advanced. So beyond Level 10 the class really gains nothing new that it can do, it just gets better at what it already can do.

And I do see your point about traps sense fitting thematically. From my perspective the Demolitionist, while capable of disarming traps by hand, prefers to blow them up instead. Thus he never really develops that up close and personal relationship that more "Hands on" Rogues nurture. And the uncanny dodge abilities seemed inappropriate because a Demolitionist is more likely to lob bombs from a distance at his attackers rather than close in for flanking maneuvers in melee.

Ultimately what you could do is separate these abilities into Rogue Talents. The Alchemist does this with nearly every single class feature. Simply make Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny dodge Rogue talents, the latter of which requires you to have the Uncanny dodge ability. Same with Trap Sense.

I hope this explanation has given you insight into my thought process :)

AK-

Simple and fairly well done. Added to my list of homebrew I like.

If you want to flex those design muscles some more, consider what you would need to do to remove the bombs per day limit.

I'm glad that you like it Cheapy. Its funny how you always seem to be the first to notice my posted stuff.

You could just removed the bombs per day limit if you really wanted to. The Warlock in D&D had an at will spell like ability and with the right Dark Invocation he could turn it into an area of effect ability.

I prefer keeping the limit on the number of bombs per day, because then it "seems" more balanced to DMs and players. People tend to freak out over an unlimited Xd6 area of effect ability, as if its over powered. Its a rookie mistake. Meteor Swarm while a powerful spell pales in comparison to Summon Monster IX, which pales in comparison to "Wish".

But any DM with experience in high level play would laughing allow you unlimited uses with bombs because ultimately, damage is not as big a factor at higher levels.

15.) "Um... this bottle I'm holding.... What is it? Uh... um... You know what FSCK IT!!!" [Throws bomb/Alchemist's Fire at questioners and runs]

Rogue Archetype: The Demolitionist

“There is no problem that cannot be solved through the careful application of high explosives.”

The Demolitionist is an expert in explosives. With a bomb he can take out a wall, wreak havoc amongst his enemies, and set deadly traps for the unsuspecting. They are not the kind of Rogue that stabs you in the back, they are the kind that puts a bomb in your room before you go to bed at night, or lobs one in your general direction during the heat of battle. While they lack the variety of infusions that an Alchemist may possess, they are every bit as deadly with the bombs they make, and most are happy with knowing just enough alchemy “to be dangerous”.

Explosives Training.

Bomb (Su)

Demolitionist are experts at swiftly mixing various volatile chemicals to create powerful bombs that they can hurl at their enemies. A demolitionist can use a number of bombs each day equal to his class level + his Intelligence modifier. Bombs are unstable, and if not used in the round they are created, they degrade and become inert—their method of creation prevents large volumes of explosive material from being created and stored. In order to create a bomb, the demolitionist must use a small vial containing an ounce of liquid catalyst—the demolitionist can create this liquid catalyst from small amounts of chemicals from an alchemy lab, and these supplies can be readily refilled in the same manner as a spellcaster's component pouch. Most demolitionist create a number of catalyst vials at the start of the day equal to the total number of bombs they can create in that day—once created, a catalyst vial remains usable by the alchemist for years.

Drawing the components of, creating, and throwing a bomb requires a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity. Thrown bombs have a range of 20 feet and use the Throw Splash Weapon special attack. Bombs are considered weapons and can be selected using feats such as Point-Blank Shot and Weapon Focus. On a direct hit, a demolitionist's bomb inflicts 1d6 points of fire damage + additional damage equal to the demolitionist's Intelligence modifier. The damage of an demolitionist's bomb increases by 1d6 points at every odd-numbered demolitionist level (this bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit or by using feats such as Vital Strike). Splash damage from a demolitionist bomb is always equal to the bomb's minimum damage (so if the bomb would deal 2d6+4 points of fire damage on a direct hit, its splash damage would be 6 points of fire damage). Those caught in the splash damage can attempt a Reflex save for half damage. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the demolitionist's level + the demolitionist's Intelligence modifier.

Demolitionists can learn new types of bombs as discoveries, in place of learning a rogue talent (see the Discovery ability) as they level up. A demolitionist may only select discoveries that are related to bombs, and they treat their demolitionist class level as Alchemist's levels for the purposes of determining which discoveries they qualify for. A demolitionist may not select any rogue talents that use sneak attack, unless the have gained sneak attack from another class.

A demolitionist's bomb, becomes inert if used or carried by anyone else.

This ability replaces Sneak Attack

Throw Anything (Ex)
All demolitionist gain the Throw Anything feat as a bonus feat at 1st level. A demolitionist adds his Intelligence modifier to damage done with splash weapons, including the splash damage if any. This bonus damage is already included in the bomb class feature.

Precise Bombs (Ex)

At 3rd level, a demolitionist gains the precise bombs alchemist discovery as a bonus discovery.

This ability replaces Trap Sense +1

Explosive Disarm (Ex)

At 5th level, a demolitionist can attempt to disarm a mechanical or magical trap by detonating it rather than disarming it with a Disable Device check. As a full-round action, a demolitionist may expend one of his bombs to make a ranged touch attack against a trap, using the trap's Disable Device DC as its AC. If the attack misses, the bomb's splash damage activates the trap. If the attack hits, the bomb deactivates the trap without setting it off. The demolitionist must both know the location of the trap and be able to reach the trap's trigger with a ranged touch attack in order to use this ability.

This ability replaces Uncanny Dodge from 4th Level.

Directed Blast (Su)

At 6th level, a demolitionist can detonate a bomb so that it splashes in a 20-foot cone rather than affecting a radius. The cone starts at the demolitionist and extends away from him in the direction he chooses. The demolitionist designates one creature in the squares affected by the cone to be the target of the bomb and makes his attack roll against that creature; all other squares in the cone take splash damage. If the demolitionist has the explosive bomb discovery and throws an explosive directed blast, the cone of splash damage is 30 feet long instead of 20 feet.

This ability replaces Trap Sense +2.

Land Mine (Ex)

At 8th level, a demolitionist can turn his bombs into land mines. Setting a land mine is a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity. The land mine fills a single 5-foot square, and can't be placed in the same space as another trap, land mine, or magic trap. The demolitionist can arm the land mine with any bomb he is eligible to use, and the effects of this bomb are immediately transferred to the land mine. Creating a land mine uses up two of the demolitionist's bombs per day. The DCs for Perception checks to notice the land mine, Disable Device checks to disable it, and saving throws to avoid its effects are equal to 10 + 1/2 the demolitionist's level + his Intelligence modifier. All demolitionist land mines are mechanical traps with the qualities Trigger: location and Reset: none. Land mines last for 1 day per demolitionist level or until they are triggered, whichever comes first.

This ability replaces Improved Uncanny Dodge

Staggering Blast (Su)

At 9th level, a demolitionist's bombs become particularly overwhelming when they explode. Whenever a demolitionist scores a successful critical hit with a bomb, the creature directly struck by that bomb is staggered for 1d4+1 rounds. A successful Fortitude save (DC equals the bomb’s Reflex save DC to avoid splash damage) reduces the duration to 1 round. The effects of this ability stack with a frost bomb’s staggering effect, but not with the effects of the Staggering Critical feat. Additional hits from a staggering blast add to the effect’s overall duration.
This ability replaces Trap Sense +3

Mine Engineering (Ex)

At 10th level, a demolitionist's expertise in improving explosives allows him to create land mines with minimal expense. Creating a land mine uses up only one of the demolitionist's bombs per day.

This ability replaces the Advanced Rogue Talent for Level 10.

Demolition Specialist (Ex)

At 12th level a demolitionist becomes a specialist of taking down structures with his explosives. Any time a demolitionist deals damage to an object his bombs automatically ignore half of that object's hardness.

This ability replaces Trap Sense +4

Powerful Bombs (Ex)

At 15th level a demolitionist's bombs become quite powerful. He treats any 1s that he rolls on his bomb damage dice as 2s. Also a demolitionist's bomb's splash damage increases to half of the bomb damage rolled.

This ability replaces Trap Sense +5

Swift Mining (Ex)

At 18th level a demolitionist can set land mines with astounding speed. It now only takes the demolitionist a Move Action to set a land mine. Setting the land mine still provokes a attack of opportunity.

This ability replaces Trap Sense +6

Explosives Mastery (Ex)

Upon reaching 20th Level a demolitionist becomes a Master of Explosives. He treats any 1s and 2s that he rolls on his bomb damage dice as 3s. Also anyone caught in the bomb's splash damage radius takes the full amount of the bomb damage rolled, as if they had been directly hit by the bomb. Finally the demolitionist's bombs are so precise that they completely ignore an objects hardness when dealing damage.

This ability replaces Master Strike
_______________________________________________________________________

I was surprised to find that no one has really thought to do this with the rogue. Especially since we have an Alchemist that traded bombs for Sneak Attack dice. Anyway, my goal here was to create a Rogue Archetype that specialized in bombs rather than sneaking up from behind and dealing damage.

Yes this archetype is a hybrid of the alchemist archetypes Grenadier and Trap Breaker.

But I wanted to combine them in a way that would be more effective overall. (Also if everyone is going to keep stealing from the Rogue, I thought it was time Rogues had an archetype that stole some stuff back)

Anyway, enjoy the archetype, tell me what you think.

AK-

1.) I understand that the 3.5 Warlock is not open content and I even stated this in my original post. While the name Warlock, and his flavor text methods of Invocations are copy written the mechanics behind "Spell like Abilities" are not. The only thing Paizo cannot do is replicate the Warlock class word for word as is. They would have to come up with something like they did for the Samurai, Ninja, or Swashbuckler.

There is nothing stopping them from creating a caster that uses Spell Like Abilities at will. There is noting stopping them from calling an ability and Arcane or Eldritch Blast. They may even be able to call it a Warlock and have is system be based and a Eldritch "Grit Pool".

So as I said earlier, I understand the Warlock is not open source. I am not asking for a direct translation. WHAT I AM ASKING FOR is a caster that uses spell like abilities at will, rather than spells.

2.) Why don't I just use a homebrew option if I like it so much. Fact is that I do, but you know what, its homebrew. And I'm sure there are plenty of people that have translated it on their own as well. You know what the problem is with homebrew? You can't use homebrew if you want to play in PF society. You can't use homebrew in almost any game buy your own unless you have friends or DMs that really trust your mastery of the system in terms of class design.

No to mention a trend I have noticed is that people are increasingly using fewer and fewer 3.5 materials period. Some table tops don't want to use or allow 3.5 materials at all. And while the counter argument to that would be "well then just play 3.5" that then forces us to chose between playing an outdated and busted 3.5 system or playing something that is a little more balanced and up to date.

The fact is that while I can convert it on my own (and have already done so) there is still nothing OFFICAL that is like the warlock for Pathfinder and there are those of us THAT WANT something like the Warlock officially for Pathfinder.

As for marrying the damn thing, maybe I already have, but that's personal and between me and my wife. Thanks :P

On a completely different note, yes I would love to see new classes with entirely new ideas for mechanics, like Binders, as well. While I understand that the new classes have new unique abilities and Mechanics a good deal of them seem to be a What if I mix class A with Class B, rather than a completely new concept like a Binder.

How about an Engineer style class that could produce different effects based on what he built? Something completely non magical, but focused on imparting devices with Extraordinary abilities. While I'm sure the "new classes" are interesting I'm sure there are those of us who want to see Paizo tackle entirely new concepts and mechanics for classes that the current ones cannot fit into.

Suggestion/Request: Would Paizo be willing to Design a new Class as something akin to the 3.5 Warlock?

I know this is play test area, but after examining the PDF I noticed that this particular type of class has not been addressed. Since Paizo is still in the design stages of this book, I felt as though now might be the time for us to ask them if they would be willing to consider this.

The Warlock was a very popular class in the 3.5 era. A caster that uses a limited number of spell like abilities rather than spells and has an unlimited number of uses of these abilities per day. Now I understand that the Warlock is no open source material and thus cannot be officially converted but could we not try for something similar in nature to this class.

We already have a ton of variations for the arcane and divine casting routes. So far on the arcane side we have the Wizard, the Witch, and the Sorcerer. For the Divine team we have the Cleric, the Druid, and the Oracle. Then we have the 3/4 team of Bard, Inquisitor, Magus, and Alchemist.

So far these have all been different variations on the same mechanical themes but we've yet to see something different in the casters. I understand its easier to balance this way as everyone essentially uses the same rules for casting, but its not like spell like abilities are a brand new concept, monsters have been using them since the Monster Manual was printed.

So if you're going to create a book of new classes, my suggestion is rather than just meshing together some things we've seen before, why not give us something new. Something different. Currently there is no class that does this in Pathfinder, and I for one, would love to see one.

and I have a feeling there are those of us in the community that would like to see this as well.

It is merely a suggestion, to the Paizo staff, if they are going to be introducing all these new classes.

I'll toss in my 2 copper:

Here's a reason why play testing matters: Dungeon's & Dragons 3.0 thru 3.5 and the crap tastic ways WoTC slapped together their material. Do you know how much useless crap there was in those splat books? Do you know just how over powered some of their stuff was.

Lets take the 3.5 Sorcerer for example. From 3.0 to 3.5 D&D tried to argue the spontaneous spell casting was SO BROKEN AND POWERFUL that the Sorcerer didn't need anything else in terms of class abilities. It is a well known fact that the Sorcerer was one of the worst classes in the game and that Spontaneous casting was nowhere near as powerful as it was assumed to be. Even after all the "play testing" data came back from 3.0 they still didn't bother updating the class.

While play testing may give biased results, they still tell the developers weather or not something is working mechanically in play which can be very different from how it appears on the design table.

Paizo's solution may not be perfect, but at least the community as a whole has some influence on how these classes come out. And I think many of us despite our gripes with certain design decisions, feel as though the classes in Pathfinder are a better reflection of what the community as a whole wants to play, rather than a set of prescribed classes that the designers think we want to play.

Here's an idea I had for helping the Monk be more of the "Mobile Combat Monster" that they are described to be.

Make Flurry of blows work like this:
-A Monk can use Flurry of blows (which is still a full round action) AND still move up to their speed

-Move "Mobility" from the Monks list of 6th level Bonus Feats to the ones that they can take at level 1.

-If you want to give them an ability to help them hit things how about allowing them to spend 1 point from their Ki pool to add a +1 Enhancement Bonus to hit and damage which lasts for a number of rounds equal to the Monks level + Wisdom Modifier. Four every four levels they gain beyond 4th the enhancement bonus increases by +1. At a +2 Enhancement bonus they can start adding weapon properties to their unarmed strikes. If using an Amulet of Might Fists then they can devote all points spent from their Ki pool to adding weapon properties to their unarmed attacks. (Similar to how a Paladin or Magus use their Bonded weapon abilities).

I'm not going to go into a full blown RAR correct write up for these abilities here but you get the gist of what I'm talking about. The first two suggestions could easily be added/changed in future printings. The Ki pool ability might require more finessing to fit into the Ki pool entry of the CRB.

Personally I feel as thought the monk was a 1st edition class ported to 3.0 and it still carries a lot of baggage from those days. If a new edition of Pathfinder is released I think they should turn the Monk into a straight martial artist class (without alignment restrictions) that specializes in unarmed combat, and make the "Monk" a mystical archetype (with being partial lawful a requirement of the archetype).

I have bESM d20 and bESM 3rd edition.

In my opinion bESM d20 concept was fine. But when mixed with the Attribute system things stopped working so well. Also I really liked the flexibility of the original bESM system, where as the d20 bESM railroads you into taking preset classes for the most part.

I'm actually looking into working in a direction opposite from yours by eliminating the class system in general and going with a strictly Character level driven system where character points are gained at every level to buy everything from BAB, to Hit Dice, to save improvements, ect.

That way you could still get the same D20 feel, but with a system that allows you to completely custom build any character using the Attribute system.

Sorry: Class = Soul Knife
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife

Mindblade is part of its class abilities as is the quick draw ability at level 5.

Perception check vs. the Rogue's slight-of-hand to get the suprise round, otherwise its initiative.

If the victim fails the perception check then its a suprise round and Underhanded counts...

Does Perception even come into play. The Mind Blade is not only undrawn, it is Unformed meaning that it is not even there to be perceived until it is drawn as a free action.

And if we are going to bring the Perception rules into play this brings up other questions. Underhanded grants a +4 bonus to the Sleight of Hand check to conceal the weapon. Since an unformed mind blade is technically not even there does that mean the PC gets an additional +4 bonus (which is untyped) as per the Sleight of Hand skill regarding an extremely small object.

A lot the questions arise from what the mind blade actually is. Technically the Mind Blade isn't even there until the PC draws/forms it, which at 5th level is executed as a free action. And a Free action translates into time as a nearly effortless instantaneous action.

So for me, a weapon that is not there, until the instant that you are attacked with it, would require no perception check on the part of the victim as there is nothing there for them to perceive.

Here is the scenario.

Lets Assume we have a level 3 Rogue/Level 5 Mind Blade
The relevant stuff here is as follows:
-Sneak Attack 2D6
-Rogue Talent: Underhanded
-Ability to Form Light Mind Blade and Throw it 20 feet.
-Ability to Quick Draw the mind blade as a free action as per the mind blade class ability.

Here is the general setup.
-Unsuspecting Victim assumes the PC is unarmed. The PC has no weapons on them. The "Mind blade" is not formed at this time. The NPCs are under the impression that the PC is unarmed.
-The PC then uses "Under Handed" assuming that since the mind blade is not formed, and his victims have already assumed he's unarmed, that would mean that they are not aware of his "hidden weapon".
-The PC will draw his mind blade as a "free action" as per the mind blade quick draw class ability and attack.

Here are the questions:
1.) Since the Victim has assumed that the PC is unarmed (because the mind blade was not initially drawn) and the PC was assumed to have no weapons on them, does that Justify a "Surprise Round" where the victim would be Flatfooted when the PC draws the mind blade and attacks? Remember the Mind Blade is being drawn as a free action.
2.) Does the "Underhanded" talent come into play? Remember that since the PC had no "weapons" on them he was assumed to be unarmed. Is an unformed Mind blade considered a weapon that the Victim was not aware of?

If this all works in theory (which I don't see any reason why it shouldn't) then the situation should play out like this.
-The unsuspecting Victim, is aware that the PC has no weapons on them, is not aware that they are a mind blade, and thus assumes that they are dealing with an unarmed PC.
-The PC, sent to assassinate this victim, has his mind blade, which is unformed until he is ready to strike. When he does strike, the mind blade can be drawn as a free action.
-Once the Mind blade is drawn and combat initiates, the victim is assumed to be caught by surprise as they had assumed the PC had no weapons on them. This would mean that they are flat footed. Also since the PC is using a weapon that the victim was unaware of the PC will deal Maximum Sneak Attack Damage.

Mind you this whole scenario also assumes that you don't need to conceal a weapon that is technically "Not there" until the PC chooses to form it as a free action.

So what do you think: Does it work?

Combine Explosive Missile (min 4th level) Alchemist discovery with the 1st level Gunslinger Deed Ability called: Dead Eye. The deed ability specifies no action that is used to activate this ability, only that you must be firing beyond your weapons first range increment to be eligible to resolve it as a Touch AC attack. Explosive missile specifically states that you can infuse your ammunition with the power of your bomb, load it, and shoot it all as 1 standard action.

In my opinion, it is amazing for the Alchemist/Gunslinger hybrid.

Unearthed Arcana
Page: 58 (Fighter Variant)
Gain: Sneak attack at every odd level (like a rogue)
Lose: Fighter Bonus feats.

Now mind you this was written for 3.5s Fighter which did not have Bravery, Armor Training, or Weapon Training. Since this only effects your fighter bonus feats you could also mix this class variant with most other Fighter archetypes.

So you get what you want. Full BAB, full sneak attack. All you lose is the bonus feats. Just also remember that PF also increased the number of feats you get from 1 per 3 character levels to 1 every other character level.

Enjoy.

precision damage is not very good because a great number of monsters are immune to it and it does not get multiplied when you crit

Are you playing with 3.5 or Pathfinder rules. Pathfinder removed the immunity to precision based damage from A LOT OF MONSTERS that had it in 3.5. If your DM is still denying you sneak attack damage vs corporeal undead and constructs then THEY ARE DOING IT WRONG.

I will admit that the class needs "work" as most of the Pathfinder changes and classes have given other characters the ability to fill the rogues shoes. Having few skills in Pathfinder, having lower skill point costs, and allowing everyone with ranks in disable device to find and disarm traps hurts. The two poor saves have always hurt.

But here's some information that I think everyone forgets when they say "this class can't do x,y,z on its own so its nerfed and doesn't work" D&D/Pathfinder is a game based on TEAM WORK People b&!~+ about the rogue's "buddy system". Last time I checked, buddy system falls into TEAM WORK.

Personally, and this is my opinion I think the table top gaming community has become contaminated by this MMORPG/World of War Craft/D&D 4E/whatever mentality that if a class can't solo then its sucks. If it can't survive or do its job with minimal to zero support then it sucks. Or that it was designed poorly.

I'm not going to deny the problems with the class. The way the RAW handle Stealth makes it really difficult to play the sneak/scout game anymore. The revision to disable device hurts, and multiple avenue's to trap finding hurt, the NINJA hurts because its a better sneak than the rogue.

But I am sick of the "ROGUE SUCKS PLAY SOMETHING ELSE" bashing.

In case people forgot here's a reminder:
-PATHFINDER may as well have been called D&D 3.75. For the most part everything was designed to be backwards compatible. This means we accepted certain design flaw elements that could be fixed and recognized that some design flaw elements could not be fixed without a heavy revision that would compromise said backwards compatibility.

Personally I remember when Pathfinder gave us the "new rogue" most of us were happy with the improvements. Rogue Talents, higher Hit Die, same skill points but less skills, new favored class mechanic, CAPSTONE. It was like the folks at PAIZO made us a Rogue flavored Sundae, decked out with hot fudge and cherry on top. Now all people do is b!&~% about how much the sundae sucks and needs to be take off the menu.

Here is what is right with the class:
-3/4 BAB with a D8 hit Die
-8+INT skill points per level
-Most Rogue Talents
-Sneak attack and the Pathfinder revision to what is and is not subject to it.

Here's what needs work:
-2 good saves (and I'll say Fortitude). Rogues have always had a weakness vs compulsions, mind effects, ect. They have tricks for getting out of it. Tricks don't mean an automatic good will save. You want to fix the will save issue... ROGUE TALENTS FOR IT.
-The Rogue needs some type of mechanic that allows it to sneak around again because Stealth just isn't doing it. Fix the damn stealth rules and it can start being the point man again.
-I personally believe we need some type of "point pool" mechanic for the Rogue, akin to the whole Ki Pool mechanic. Maybe call it a Luck Pool. Here are some ideas for it:

[Making the Rogue relevant]: Hybrid 3.5/Pathfinder skill system. (Opinions Wanted)

The revised skill system in Pathfinder at first seemed like a welcome idea. It greatly simplified the number of skills in the game, seemed to eliminate redundant skills, and gave every class a fair chance at being good in the cross class skill category. Yet over time it seems that this simplification went too far. One particular issue was that of the Rogue, the 3.5 skill monkey, who, in Pathfinder, seems to have been made irrelevant due to the low cost of cross class skills, coupled with the reduction in the number of skills in the game, and the fact that certain skills (Disable Device) were made useable by any class.

So here are some thoughts I've had.
-What if we went back to a larger skill list like in 3.5 but with some important changes

Thanks for the update. I just have one thing to say: This is the same answer that was given almost 2 months ago on June 9th. I'm not trying to be short or impatient but this seems like a cut, copy, paste & edited answer to your question.

Can they give us any reason as to why there has been such a long delay from June.

I understand the High End backers paid a lot of money to get certain perks, like first crack at the play testing. If its behind in development then I understand that.

I, and I'm sure there's other like me, were just waiting for the open play test for the rest of the public. Now we're finding out that the High End backers may not have even had a chance to play test it, and there has been no communication on kick starter or their forum since early June, which means we may not even get a shot the play testing until September.

So we're curious as to why there has been such a delay, when the material will be released to the high end backers and an approximate time as to when those materials will become open to the public for play testing.

Not trying to be rude, just been waiting for 2 months, anticipating this product.

Thanks
AK

Sorry for thread Necromancy...

A general question to anyone out there that funded PURE STEAM on kickstarter or anyone involved in the design/development process of this product: Has there been any additional information released since early June of 2012, shortly after they reached full funding.

I ask because I have not seen any further updates on their website or their message board. Even the kickstarter page has updated recently.

Any information would be appreciated.

Well here we are again. The 3.5 Warlock. I've got some of my own. The ideas I'm presenting at this time are not the finished conversion. It is a rough working draft. I'm looking for feed back, ideas, and input. The goal is to keep the class backwards compatible while still upgrading it and offering some of the class feature options that pathfinder has become known for.

Here's where we are right now:

Hit dice: Upgraded to D8s
BAB: Still a 3/4 BAB class (+15/+10/+5 at 20th level)
Saves: Poor Fortitude and Poor Reflex. Good Will Power.
Skills: (just update these to Pathfinder)
Skill Points: Remain the same.
Number of Invocations: Remains the same 12 by 20th level.
Alignment: Must be Chaotic or Any Evil.

Note: class features marked with a (*) are new class features detailed below.
1st: Eldritch Blast 1D6, Eldritch Curse*, Eldritch Pool*, Eldritch Power*, Invocations (least)
2nd: Eldritch Power*, Eldritch Resistance*
3rd: Damage Reduction 1/(TYPE), Eldritch Blast 2D6
4th: Eldritch Power*, Deceive Item
5th: Eldritch Blast 3D6, Mettle
6th: Eldritch Power*, New Invocations (lesser)
7th: Damage Reduction 2/(TYPE), Eldritch Blast 4D6
8th: Eldritch Power*, Eldritch Resilience 1
9th: Eldritch Blast 5D6
10th: Eldritch Power*, Energy Resistance 5
11th: Damage Reduction 3/(TYPE), Eldritch Blast 6D6, New Invocations (greater)
12th: Eldritch Power*, Improved Eldritch Resistance*
13th: Eldritch Blast 7D6, Eldritch Resilience 3
14th: Eldritch Power*
15th: Damage Reduction 4/(TYPE), Eldritch Blast 8D6, Energy Resistance 10
16th: Eldritch Power*, New Invocations (Grand/Formerly Dark)
17th: Eldritch Blast 9D6
18th: Eldritch Power*, Eldritch Resilience 5
19th: Damage Reduction 5/(TYPE), Eldritch Blast 10D6
20th: Eldritch Perfection*

Some notes:

My House rules:

The idea for a main bad guy who is a literal mother of monsters.

Either a witch or an Alchemist who a can breed monsters the "Normal" way but gets the best results and loyalties by dosing herself with with potions and mutagens and using herself as cauldron. She then uses the "children" to get what she wants.

Considering what's been going on in the internet of late. My question how likely is it someone or some of you would find the idea offensive?

I find your idea more macabre than offensive. I know I'm not helping you determine weather or not this is right for your games, and I'm not going to, as this is something you and your players need to decide for yourselves. That being said if you decide to go down this route consider using some of the following additional source material from 3.5.

Heroes of Horror: Corruption and Insanity are awesome additional rule sets in these styles of campaigns. Also they have expanded rules for the effects of fear and how to implement fear as a saving throw effect.
The Book of Vile Darkness: While this work as a whole is rather silly it had some good starting points for ideas. Take what you will.

I suggest these additional source materials if you really want to play up the horror behind your concept. Depending upon your campaign style this type of villain might cross the line from just another BBEG to something more disgusting and offensive, so much so, that to the PCs the very nature of what this villain is doing is an affront to their very sanity. It all depends on whether or not you want the concept to be so offensive, in character, that the very knowledge of what this villain is doing to create her monsters would be enough to severely traumatize a PC.

Also you could apply the taint and corruption rules to the main villain so that as she continues this warped practice of breading her monsters she herself is progressively embracing that corruption within herself leading to even stronger monsters being born from her womb due to the ever increasing levels of corruption within herself.

Personally I feel as though you as a GM should already have a good idea as to whether or not your concept will be offensive to your players. If you don't you may want to do some probing. Maybe refer to the horror genre and a similar idea to see how they react to it outside of the game. I personally would not ask flat out if they were okay with this idea as that tends to spoil the surprise should you decide to run with it. Half the fun with these kinds of concepts is the shock value. Still my best suggestion would be to feel this topic out with your players outside of game and once you have a good idea on what there feelings are about it that should tell you whether or not this is an idea for an adventure or an idea to go in the GM note book for future consideration at a later date.

@DarkLightHitomi

You will find that I tend to speak in general terms. My "group" is actually fairly eclectic and ranges greatly in terms of "gamer" experience from the recently indoctrinated N00B to someone who hasn't played since 2nd edition.

Me personally, I'm usually saddle bagged with being the GM. Mostly because I have the most experience and the best imagination when it comes to managing the campaign world. (I've been around since the early days of 2nd edition thru present).

When I do get to play I try to avoid "power games", "meat grinders", and "build competition" groups as I have a lot of issues with people that just play the game to "win" and build the most optimal beast possible using the RAW as I feel as though they are missing the entire point of "Role Playing".

And please don't take it as a trashing of your "style". Its a game, play it however you want. Just be educated enough to realize that not everyone wants to play your style, or my style, or any style but their own.

To reply to your post
A: Unfortunately a by product of the 3.0 to PF era of the D&D system has almost trained people to expect to have a certain amount of bonuses. Especially when 3.5 standardized NPC generation with point buy. True the system will always favor the character with bonuses, the problem is that people expect to have those bonuses now-a-days when playing with this system.

B: In my honest opinion this is the area where D&D/PF has the most issues. The system ranges in its approximation of "real world difficulty" based upon what the "average person" can do from being spot on accurate to completely borked. It really is kinda all over the place with some tasks that should be really difficult being amazingly easy to pull off while other tasks that should be really easy are next to impossible to pull off. But I blame this more on the games design than the people playing it.

C: This is true when you are playing casually. I don't believe the same holds true for any officially sanctioned events. This is to keep the playing field level but it also ties the GMs hands so that the adventure is written as is and played as is. If its too hard for your group in these sanctioned events then the official answer is, too bad. Still this would be the difference from casual play vs a sanctioned event.

Also please remember I come from an older time when the adventures were written to kill you and TPK the party in an afternoon. If anyone here remembers "THE TOMB OF HORRORS" then you'll be able to relate to what I'm saying here. Back then I fondly remember it was literally us (the party) vs the GM whose soul mission that afternoon was getting his perverse high off killing everyone.

D: I agree that not everyone should be able to do everything. Otherwise what would be the point. (You may as well play 4th edition at that point). What I mean is that you need to be able to do your job, your role, with some degree of competency, and part of that competency is reflected in the stats. I agree that there needs to be roles in the party. Its part of what makes this game fun. The fact that you can't do it all and the learning of teamwork to overcome in game problems.

@ Kane I apologize if my response seems hostile, I am mildly autistic and so it is extremely difficult to tell what is a bad or good way to say things to others because the golden rule (treat others as you would have them treat you) no longer applies. Things I say to others would not ever bother me in the reverse situation.

So I apologize if I seemed hostile and negative, please remember that and look more for the logic in my statements as logic seems to be the most consistent in language(though rarely is paid any attention).

Besides I don't see munchkin as a bad thing, just a different style of play, but perhaps that is not how others perceive it. I will start my quest for a different word for those who..."optimize"?.

No worries, and I apologize if I came off a bit harsh there. I prefer sarcasm over rage posting. It tends to lighten the mood while still conveying my point. I did not know about the autism and I am sorry if my response forced you to openly state this on a public forum.

As I stated earlier your method seems sound. I would highly recommend taking an hour and producing several pages of stats generated using your new found method. The statistics over the coarse of say 100 uses of this ability score generation system will start to give you an idea as to weather or not the method is sound in practice. It really is the only way to proof your concept as only through the repeated process of generating the ability scores many times over will any flaws in the method begin to show themselves.

FORE WARNING: Due to the rather hostile and negative connotation of feed back provided by the OP aka DarkLightHitomi in response to my own post, I am going reply in the best manner I know how... COMEDIC SARCASM!!! Enjoy :)

Yeah, no.

If your players will put up with this and enjoy it, more power to them and you.

I would personally rather play a flat 15-point buy than risk having my array hamstring my character concept and get an extra five points to try shoring up the random.

I don't come to the game wanting to find out what I'm playing: I already know what I want to play.

That randomized array up there? Note how the Intelligence score is the second-lowest score.

It doesn't matter WHAT class I had in mind, I'm a skill-junkie, and Int 10 simply will not do. Unless I'm playing a caster based on a different stat, Intelligence is always, always my highest score.

TL,DR: I may eat organic, but I'm not willing to build a character that way.

[Insert Sarcasm Here]

And lets not forget about overcoming the challenges of being an Intelligence 11 wizard. That gives you something to try for. A problem to overcome while the DM is throwing stuff that is OUT TO KILL YOU your way. Like you don't have enough issues from the DM to deal with now you get to overcome your own in-character personal issues as well.

BUT FEAR NOT: Because hopefully someone in your party generated CAPTAIN UBER AWESOME AT EVERYTHING-EVERYTHING-EVERYTHING because he rolled up three 18s. We'll all just hide behind him and let him pick up the slack while we pick our nose due to our Charisma sitting at a lovely 6.
[END Sarcasm here]

And don't throw around the word munchkin like it means something, because all you're trying to do is incite negative feedback by calling anyone that uses the point buy system a munchkin.

[RESTART SARCASM]: Yep, that mean's I'm a munchkin. Oh, by the Gygaxian Gods how did I ever allow myself to sub come to the darkside of wanting to build the character I envision in my mind rather than the one determined for me by the dice.

WHAT A BAD PLAYER I AM. I SHOULD KNOW BETTER THAN TO WANT TO HAVE FREE WILL. EVIL MUNCHINKER. I MUST BE WHIPPED AND BEATEN OFF THE FORUMS

And how could I be so stupid as to suggest an alternate method of character creation that doesn't even use point buy let alone random generation. How dare I think up a way of generating characters that relies entirely upon ones own imagination and ability to preconceive a character ahead of time. FORE SHAME, WHAT A BAD PLAYER I MUST BE. Evil imagination. Evil wants. I should know better than to desire such things and leave all my choices up to the toss of the dice. THAT IS THE ONLY WAY. THAT IS THE PURE TRUE D&D WAY.
[Once again End Sarcasm Here]

Yes, random stat generation can be interesting. But don't walk around here calling those of us that use point buy systems munchkins who are incapable of loving an organic character. Using point buy is a preference just like using random stat generation. And using point buy doesn't mean we can't love "organic characters". It just means when we come to play we'd rather play want we want, and not what the dice determine we have to play.

@DarkLightHitomi
In closing, your method for random generation is sound. Good Job. Have fun using it.

As for your "forum Etiquette", your tolerance for the "point of view" of others and discussing "points of view" that differ from your own, it needs work. Try reading your own responses to others and just try putting yourself in their shoes. If you even get the remote inkling that you might come off as rude or offensive, then you should really reconsider the wording of your response.

-AK

You are assuming a class needs high stats to play, they don't.

The only actual restriction for class viability is that a spellcaster has to have (spell level plus 10) in the casting stat to cast a spell. There are no other absolute needs to play a class, bonuses are nice but they are just bonuses.

Example; So for a spellcaster the player makes an array with a 9 and the 9 lands on his spellcasting stat he uses 4 of his 5 points to up it to 13 then has at least 7 levels before the stat disallows him to cast something, and has plenty of levels to up his stat and adventures get magic to improve that stat further.

Bonuses are not needed to play a class, they help but are not needed. Anyone who hates to play without those bonuses is a munchkin, which is fine and those munchkins can go play with point buy.

The nice thing about this method is a player can use it if they want even when the GM just says regular point buy.

You are correct that with the exception of casters you don't need bonuses to play the classes and yes you could get buy with playing a character with all 11s.

There is one problem. The D&D/Pathfinder system inherently favors the PC that has bonuses and to a certain degree the encounters are designed assuming that you have a certain average of bonuses at any given level. When you don't have those bonuses the game becomes that much harder and while you maybe having fun playing this character, your companions may not be having fun picking up your slack.

Its one thing to have fun playing. Its another thing to have fun playing at the expense of other people. Its a very narrow wire to walk even with a group that's okay with your sub-par character.

And please don't call people who prefer to play with bonuses munchkins. Fact is a lot of people take pride in their character and that pride is somewhat reflected in their characters stats. The fat kid playing a nimble elf with a dexterity of 19 isn't just doing it for the +4 bonus. He's doing it because its something he'll never be able to do in real-life. Part of the escape, part of the fantasy and the illusion of this game translates into the ability scores. For some people playing average would be just as bad as playing themselves.

All I'm trying to say is that while random can be fun its not for everybody. Point buy has its draw backs too. Long story short, there is no perfect method for generating characters. You go random and you lose the ability to design to concept. You go static point buy and you get into min/maxing.

After much research and debating it is my honest opinion that random ability score generation is nothing short of an early Gygaxian torture method taught to 1st generation DMs to make sure that players understood this one message: "Welcome to D&D. Don't get attached to your characters because their ability scores will probably suck and the traps and monsters in this dungeon have been designed to kill you all anyway."

That much being said. Welcome to point buy when I show up to play a game for 4 to 8 hours I want it to be an enjoyable exercise playing something that I want to play, not an 8 hour crap fest of me dealing with a character that I don't give two copper pieces about because I was railroaded into playing him because the dice decided to have a bad day.

But that's just me. I don't have time to waste on playing something I have no interest in.

When I was younger and didn't work 40+ hours in a week, then yeah, I could spare a day to play in a one shotter with some randomly generated character who I got saddled with.

Fact is a lot of people to prefer to play the character that they see in their minds, not the ones determined by the dice.

And if you think point buy is too limiting and rolling is too random here's an idea for ability score generation that will really blow your mind. Ability Scores Based on Character Concept and Back Ground. Here's how it works.
-You need a group of experienced players who are more focused on playing the characters in their minds and not min/maxing every last little detail for ultimate optimization. That means in they see their character as genius level smart with an Intelligence of 18 then that's what they describe but they are also honest enough to admit that this character wasn't very healthy as a child and thus has a below average constitution of 8. They are willing to take the good along with the bad because the concept it more important.
-You need a GM/DM who knows the people he's playing with and whose good a figuring out their character concept descriptions because ultimately he's the one whose going to decide based upon the character concept outline what ability scores the character is going to get.
-Is it a fair and balanced system. Well the answer is yes and no. Its fair and balanced as long as everyone agrees to be adults and play their character concept. It breaks down the moment you get someone that writes on their character sheet MY CHARACTER IS SUPER-OMEGA-UBER-AT-EVERYTHING-EVERYTHING-EVERYTHING. ALL 18S PLZ/LOLZ. But that person should either be escorted out of the room or not allowed to be involved with this group to begin with.
-Its a very mature and adult method of character creation that caters more to a group of people more interested in playing the characters in their minds and allowing the stats to reflect those characters rather than treating all at the table like children and forcing the characters to be created within preset rules and parameters.

I will agree that there are some class concepts that have not yet been addressed by the existing character classes in play and for which and archetype/alternate class design may not be a solution. Still these classes will tend to be the exception rather than the norm.

For the "Martial Artist/spell caster" I would recommend going back to 3.5 Material like Complete Arcane for the "Enlightened Fist". This is one of those instances where I feel PrCs can actually shine. You have two base concepts and a Fusion PrC class is what I would recommend over designing an entirely new base class.

Fact is that the 3.5 material is largely still compatible as is with a few minor tweaks. Granted once again you have to seriously look at the PrCs before allowing them into your game as some are grossly unbalanced while other are so underpowered that they are near unplayable. Shoring up these design flaws is a good way to practice your own class building skills as its much easier to build and balance a PrC than a full base class.