AKSHA's page

Good day forum:

Back from the drawing board; I offer the following build.

Feats;
Dodge, Wind Stance, Lightning Stance
Step Up, Following Step, Step Up and Strike

Before attacking, this rogue can follow an opponent using Step Up and Strike. This movement does not provide a stealth check because the rogue is being observed. But the rogue still has a standard action and move action available.

The rogue can then attack the opponent with the standard action and move away with the move action.

The move action is the second action involving movement this round. Using Lightning Stance the rogue has 50% concealment and can make a stealth check with the move action.

I don't think the cloak lets you hide.

Cloak of Displacement, Minor

Aura faint illusion; CL 3rd

Slot shoulders; Price 24,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.

Description

This item appears to be a normal cloak, but when worn by a character, its magical properties distort and warp light waves. This displacement works similar to the blur spell, granting a 20% miss chance on attacks against the wearer. It functions continually.

Construction

Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, blur; Cost 12,000 gp

It works similarly to blur... not exactly. It grants a 20% miss chance, not concealment.

That concealment grants you a 20% miss chance and the ability to hide does not mean that a 20% miss chance grants you the ability to hide. A--->B does NOT mean that B----> A

I can't argue with that. One more idea for the trash bin.

Thanks guys.

I could see this working as long as they are not in an area of bright light. From the PRD:

Quote:

A creature can't use Stealth in an area of bright light unless it is invisible or has cover.

and here is the section for allowing stealth with 20% concealment:

Quote:

In an area of dim light, a character can see somewhat. Creatures within this area have concealment (20% miss chance in combat) from those without darkvision or the ability to see in darkness. A creature within an area of dim light can make a Stealth check to conceal itself. Areas of dim light include outside at night with a moon in the sky, bright starlight, and the area between 20 and 40 feet from a torch.

So, if you are in an area of bright light, you need cover, not concealment to stealth. But I would allow this to work in other lighting conditions (dim, etc) as long as the opponent does not have darkvision or something like it (blindsight, etc..)

Edit to add: These rules are in the PRD under Additional Rules, Vision and Light

“Against most creature finding cover or concealment allows you to use stealth” (Core 106).

The feat Step up and Strike (ADV 170) allows a rogue to take a single melee attack at highest attack bonus when successfully using the feats Step up (Core 135) or Following Step (ADV 160).

A hide check can be attempted with any movement so that it does not require an action (Core 107).

Using Following step a rogue can move up to 10 feet along with an adjacent opponent. It is impossible to use stealth while attacking (Core 106), but if the rogue does not attack, a stealth check is possible assuming the rogue can make use of concealment.

The Cloak of Displacement, Minor (Core 507) provides 20% concealment continually.

Based on this combination a rogue should be able to cover 10 feet to stay adjacent to an opponent and take a stealth check providing the rogue does not attack beforehand or as part of the same action.

If the adjacent opponent then provokes an attack of opportunity and the rogue has not exhausted his attacks of opportunity, the rogue then gets an attack of opportunity from stealth at his highest attack bonus.

As far as I can tell this consumes your ability to take an immediate action this turn. You still have your standard and move equivalent actions available. I think you still have the option of taking a full round action. I think you can still 5 foot step in the round that you used the step up maneuver.

AKSHA wrote:

There are two talents (Core Rules 68) Minor Magic and Major Magic. Taking these two talents gives me access to a first level wizard spell which I can cast twice a day. The caster level is my rogue level. I do not have two talents before fourth level unless the rogue spends a feat to get an extra talent.

If I understand this correctly, taking these two rogue talents makes me an arcane spell caster equal to my rogue level. The chief benefit of this interpretation is that if I take Major Magic I do not have to take Master Craftsman (Core Rules 130) in order to craft magic items as a pure rogue.

No, it is not a simple. Of course this is matter to ionterpretation but:

srd wrote:

Minor Magic (Sp): A rogue with this talent gains the ability to cast a 0-level spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. This spell can be cast three times a day as a spell-like ability. The caster level for this ability is equal to the rogue's level. The save DC for this spell is 10 + the rogue's Intelligence modifier. The rogue must have an Intelligence of at least 10 to select this talent.

While the description states "ability to cast a spell" it also specifies that it is used as a spell-like ability so it is subject to interpretation. I would rather stay that taking this talent does not make the Rogue arcane spellcaster as merly getting spell-like abilities does not make one.

Quote:

Taking Major Magic should subject me to a -4 Penalty to my saving throw vs. a Feeblemind spell (Core Rules 281).

Should not, at least according to above possible interpretations. Arcane spellcasters suffer the penalty but creatures with spell-like abilities do not (note that in 3.0 creatures with "arcane spell-like abilities" suffered the penalty as well). The same would apply to The Robes Of Archmagii.

I don't know if the spell-like ability caster level does count as prerequisite for item creation feats but I haven't found any rules contradicting it in Item Creation feat general...

I guess not being a spellcaster at all answers the item creation question. The rogue will not have the requisites for an item creation feat without Master Craftsman.

Thanks for shooting me down. It was informative.

There are two talents (Core Rules 68) Minor Magic and Major Magic. Taking these two talents gives me access to a first level wizard spell which I can cast twice a day. The caster level is my rogue level. I do not have two talents before fourth level unless the rogue spends a feat to get an extra talent.

If I understand this correctly, taking these two rogue talents makes me an arcane spell caster equal to my rogue level. The chief benefit of this interpretation is that if I take Major Magic I do not have to take Master Craftsman (Core Rules 130) in order to craft magic items as a pure rogue.

Taking Major Magic should subject me to a -4 Penalty to my saving throw vs. a Feeblemind spell (Core Rules 281).

Major Magic should qualify me to wear and benefit from the Robe of the Archmagi (Core Rules 527) starting at 4th level. The robe only requires that I be an arcane spell caster. There is no class or level requirement.

Major Magic should qualify me to take Craft Wondrous Item (Core Rules 120) at 4rd level since I cast my wizard spell as a 4th level caster and Craft Wondrous requires only a 3rd level caster.

Major Magic should qualify me to take Craft Magic Arms and Armor (Core Rules 120) starting at 5th level since I then cast as a 5th level caster which is the only requirement of that feat.

Thanks in advance for all comments.

Magic Item Creation

Towards the bottom of the table you find this:
No Slot Limitation - Multiply Cost by 2

Thank you Mauril. I should have read more closely. This solves a thorny riddle for me.

Thanks Vigil.

Are you referring to the Amulet of Proof Against Detection and Location? It mimicks the nondetection spell. Page 500 of the core rulebook.

This is true. Also true, the nondetection spell says nothing about blocking detect magic.

What might save the poor stealth character is the notion that you need line of sight to use detect magic on an opponent and the fact that you are currently hidden prevent this.

The Scabbard of Vigor uses the belt slot, too. The Scabbard of Keen Edges, however, is slotless. So, it's item by item.

Also, you can double the price of an item to make it slotless.

Excuse me Vigil. That is interesting for you to say. Please tell me if this rule is specified in either the Core Rulebook or the Advanced Player's Guide.

To answer you question. Yes the feats allow you to bypass anything that is not excluded with special rules.

Now a couple of comments. The total DC for the cloak you listed would be Base 5 with a +15 for the caster level with a +5 for not meeting that caster level. So the DC is a minimum of 25 Spellcraft Check. At 3rd level the best you can probably do is 3 ranks, +3 trained, +6 ability, +3 Skill Focus, +2 Magical Aptitude, +1 Trait for a total of +18 to the roll. Crafter Fortune Spell could give you another +5. But to get there you started with a 20 ability, have a +2 INT item, spent max skill ranks, spent three feats, and then STILL have to come up with the money and time at that level for the costs. If you fail the roll the money is gone and you may have a cursed item if you fail by enough. So in your example a PC is 100% dedicated to making magic items AND the DM gave WAY to much money to the character for his level.

So taking a step back the problem you outlined is not the ability to make the item, but there are other issues related to that example.

Something to think about is SHOULD a player be able to make magic items? Back in the day you could make anything your DM allowed by ninth level or so. In more recent history you could make some stuff at low level and others at high level but you had to spend feats, money, time, and XP to do so. Under Pathfinder you can make things with money, time and feats but the result is not a sure thing. Make something within your control and ability and you are fine... try and push the edge of what you can do and you risk severe danger.

Remember that cursed items are now much more dangerous then in the past. And a roll like that should be done by the DM so the player does not know if he succeeded or not. And removing a caster level 15 cursed item is now much harder to do... even harder for a character dabbling in the realm of magic he does not understand.

If you do not want a player to be making magic items then have that discussion with the...

I suggest you strictly adhere to a policy of requiring a character to meet the CL to make a magic item. Without any XP cost the CL is the most important barrier to making any given magic item.

Make a rogue with high intelligence. Let that rogue take one level of Oracle. For the level of Oracle take Focused Trance. Now this rogue can add 20 to any intelligence based skill check.
Let us assume the rogue can only do this once a day. This is not a problem. You can only work on one magic or mundane item per day.
Add to this the spell Crafters Fortune for a +5 to craft check.
This is if you want to make swords, or spyglasses which you would then sell for the gold to finance your magic creation. But wait there is more.

Don’t make these other items. Make poison. The feat Master Alchemist lets’ you make poison very fast. Thanks to this feat poison is the fastest thing you can make to multiply your gold, faster than magic items.
Now also take the Leadership feat and get yourself a cohort. The cohort takes the feat Cooperative Crafting. Your poison creation is twice as fast.

Because of your bonuses to the craft check, there is no poison between the Core Rulebook and the Advanced Player’s Guide that is difficult for you to make. Selling this poison over time will bring you a king’s ransom in gold.

If you can make your own magic items, gold is no longer a barrier.
You have to make a check to progress on the magic item, yes? Your Oracle power to add 20 to the die roll works for this too.

Without the CL as a barrier a low level character can make himself a robe of the Archmagi.

According to the Advanced Player’s Guide the Scabbard of Stanching is a belt slot magic item.

According to the Core Rules book the Belt of Strength is also a belt slot magic item.

This seems to suggest that one cannot wear a magical scabbard and a magical belt at the same time.

Is this what the game designers intended?

According to the Advanced Player’s Guide the Scabbard of Stanching is a belt slot magic item.

According to the Core Rules book the Belt of Strength is also a belt slot magic item.

This seems to suggest that one cannot wear a magical scabbard and a magical belt at the same time.

Is this true?