Regardless of their ruling I would never allow someone to upgrade the Str rating of a bow. That has to do with how the bow was physically constructed and could never be increased without building a new bow. At best you could use the old bow for materials.
As for upgrade the magic items I would definately allow it.
Regardless of their ruling I would never allow someone to upgrade the Str rating of a bow. That has to do with how the bow was physically constructed and could never be increased without building a new bow. At best you could use the old bow for materials.
As for upgrade the magic items I would definately allow it.
It may not be pretty, but as a mechanical engineer I can think of several ways this could be physically possible. And that's in a world w/o flying hippos.
It may not be pretty, but as a mechanical engineer I can think of several ways this could be physically possible. And that's in a world w/o flying hippos.Regardless of their ruling I would never allow someone to upgrade the Str rating of a bow. That has to do with how the bow was physically constructed and could never be increased without building a new bow. At best you could use the old bow for materials.
As for upgrade the magic items I would definately allow it.
I'm curious as to how? If it makes sense enough I'd probably change my ruling.
Although it doesn't matter too much as one of the enchantments that people have found on the more powerful magical bows in my game is the ability to adjust it magically. Plus at least in my current group the bow is an under used weapon.
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It may not be pretty, but as a mechanical engineer I can think of several ways this could be physically possible. And that's in a world w/o flying hippos.
I'm curious as to how? If it makes sense enough I'd probably change my ruling.
...
From another Mech. Ing.:
One could add different strata of hard yet flexible woods threw metal ring binding or even permanent adhesives, following a length scale distribution. Or applying small chosen metal rods along the length of a bow. Special coatings and/or dipping of the original wood could make it tougher.
These might even be combined and look nice. Imagine some multi-wooden layers of variant reflections and colors twisted over with a bronze spiral and steel rings.
If you start considering the options of small pulleys you could get many more options...
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It may not be pretty, but as a mechanical engineer I can think of several ways this could be physically possible. And that's in a world w/o flying hippos.I'm curious as to how? If it makes sense enough I'd probably change my ruling.
...
From another Mech. Ing.:
One could add different strata of hard yet flexible woods threw metal ring binding or even permanent adhesives, following a length scale distribution. Or applying small chosen metal rods along the length of a bow. Special coatings and/or dipping of the original wood could make it tougher.
These might even be combined and look nice. Imagine some multi-wooden layers of variant reflections and colors twisted over with a bronze spiral and steel rings.
If you start considering the options of small pulleys you could get many more options...
The bone-and-sinew bows, as opposed to the 'stick of wood' bows could be theoretically softened, disassembled, and reconstructed with even sturdier sinew, or some new alchemical strengthening formula, or just 'tighter,' to add some pull to it.
It's possible that more layers of sinew, wound even tighter, could be layered over the pre-existing construction, as well, but that sounds like it might get clunky-looking if attempted more than once...
But, in a fantasy world, even a pre-existing wood bow could be alchemically strengthened, or magically transformed into a stronger form of wood by some process that's not even a spell, just something that druids know how to do, or something.
There might even be some fantasy-wood that does this sort of thing over time, becoming sturdier and less flexible to a low-strength user, unless kept treated properly, allowing a user to deliberately accelerate the process if his strength increases, to 'up the strength' of the bow.
Plus there's always a possibility of a druid coming up with a spell that allows him to shape wood in a non-destructive fashion.
Since most of these processes require alchemy, magic, special woods or taking apart, reassembling and tightening a horn/bone/sinew bow (which sounds pretty labor-intensive), I'd be inclined to not make the cost-savings as good as just paying the difference, but still keep the upgrading process cheaper than just buying an entirely new bow at the new strength rating.
It follows that if I can upgrade a masterwork +1 strength bow to a masterwork +2 strength bow
then
I can upgrade my masterwork longsword to a adamantine masterwork longsword? Or can I upgrade my longsword to a masterwork longsword?
Recall that this was originally a Pathfinder Society question, not a rules question, so the answer was only intended as to what a player can do in Pathfinder organized play.
I believe that the magic can be upgraded to a similar/better item but the physical item can not. I respectfully disagree with Josh on this but it is his call. He has allowed upgrading of +1 strength bows to +2 strength, to +3 strength, etc. I just think it is a slippery slop that we shouldn't go down.
-Swiftbrook
Just My Thoughts
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A composite bow can be easily upgraded. IRL, I actually own one that can change the draw weight from 30-45 lbs by simply turning and allen screw to tighten the limbs. The center section is 2/3rds the length of the bow and solid. Each limb is 1/3rd the length, and slightly flexible. Each limb is attached to pivot at 1/3 of their individual length creating a overlap with the center piece. Adjusting the screw gains a 2 for 1 movement of the limb's far end, increasing the draw strength as the internal portion of the overlapping limb is pulled closer to the center piece. The pivot trick plus mechanical screws are all that are necessary to produce a variable strength bow. This is easily producible with medieval equipment.
Now, a laminate recurve is even easier. A) Add another laminate layer. or B) Bring the string tie points closer to center by an inch or two, there by shortening the overlall length of the bow. You wind up with a heavier draw weight for the same draw length.
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I know I'm late to the discussion, but I would like to address the base physical item upgrades previously discussed.
For normal weapons, you cannot "upgrade" them to masterwork (Core, pg. 149, "You can’t add the masterwork quality to a weapon after
it is created; it must be crafted as a masterwork weapon").
The same for armor and shields (Core, pg 153, "You can’t add the masterwork quality to armor or a shield after it is created; it must be crafted as a masterwork item.").
For normal weapons, armor, and shields, you may apply alchemical silver to the weapon as long as it is made of metal and is NOT made of adamantine, cold iron, or mithral (Core, pg. 155, "The alchemical silvering process can’t be applied to nonmetal items, and it doesn’t work on rare metals such as adamantine, cold iron, and mithral.").
Though it doesn't specifically state it, I would argue that you cannot
CHANGE a non-special-material item into a special material (adamantine, darkwood, cold iron, mithral) item. Each of these material descriptions have a statement that only items "normally made of (wood / steel as appropriate) can be made of (the corresponding special material)". In other words, no plating process is allowed, except with alchemical silver. In additional, you absolutely cannot change a non-master item into a special material item (possibly excepting Cold Iron), as all special material items (except Cold Iron) are masterwork items, and as already mentioned above, this is specially not allowed.
For the strength bows, I was ready to say you cannot upgrade the pull to a higher strength. However, I cannot find anything in the RAW preventing it, so I suppose it is allowed. I do know that 3.5 prevented it, but this isn't really 3.5, is it? :)
I have a +2 belt of Giant Strength, can it be upgraded to a +2 belt of Physical Might (Str & Dex)?
Add similar abilities = base cost x 1.5.
For example, if a character adds the power to confer invisibility to her ring of protection +2, the cost of adding this ability is the same as for creating a ring of invisibility multiplied by 1.5.
The item would be worth 5000g, the CL would remain 8, but it still would not be considered a Belt of Physical Might.
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The way we do it in our groups, to avoid confusion over whether you can add magic to an already magicked item is to simply trade up. I haven't read the entire thread, so somebody may have already suggested that. But when we do a trade up, we ignore the usual "sell for half" rule and just trade at cost, so you could trade in a +1 longsword for a +2 longsword and only pay the difference between a +1 and +2 enchantment. You're not getting your original weapon back with additional magic, you're just trading it in on a better one. Seems to make it easier to explain away.
Regardless of their ruling I would never allow someone to upgrade the Str rating of a bow. That has to do with how the bow was physically constructed and could never be increased without building a new bow. At best you could use the old bow for materials.
As for upgrade the magic items I would definately allow it.
I would agree as well.
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
I think this should be moved to the PFS section. By regular rules you can just add the ability needed, but PFS has its own crafting rules.
PS:I hit the FAQ button by accident.
You absolutely can upgrade items.
You can make a +1 weapon into a +5 weapon.
You can make a flaming weapon into a flaming burst weapon.
You can make a belt of giant strength into a belt of physical perfection.
You can take a staff and add a new spell to its repertoire.In each case, you simply pay the difference in gold. You still must have the appropriate magic item creation feats and must make the appropriate magic item crafting checks, however.
+1
This is how I've always run magic item creation, and it makes players happy.
It's generally more interesting for characters to have fewer pieces of powerful gear by adding onto what they already own than to pile a lower level item onto every body-part.
You can make a belt of giant strength into a belt of physical perfection.
I am not sure you can upgrade it like that. You can upgrade a belt of giant strength to a belt of giant strength, incredible dexterity and mighty consitution. They can in effect have the same properties but still not be the same. The Caster Level is different for the two items.
And before someone says, "What's the difference?" I'll have you know that the check to make a belt of physical perfection is much harder AND saves against destruction (sunder and damage) are much different.
You can make a belt of giant strength into a belt of physical perfection.
I am not sure you can upgrade it like that. You can upgrade a belt of giant strength to a belt of giant strength, incredible dexterity and mighty consitution. They can in effect have the same properties but still not be the same. The Caster Level is different for the two items.
And before someone says, "What's the difference?" I'll have you know that the check to make a belt of physical perfection is much harder AND saves against destruction (sunder and damage) are much different.
So I intend to craft a belt of giant strength +4 for the party. It has a CL of 8th (and thus a DC of 18 since I don't have the spell prerequisite).
I spend 8,000gp (that the fighter gave me) on the components necessary to make the belt. Then I find a quiet work shop area and get to work. I take a 10 on my Spellcraft check for automatic success and am not otherwise rushed, so it takes me 16 days (good thing the king gave us a month's leave after saving his daughter).
Half a month later the fighter gets his belt.
Five years down the line, we are much more powerful and no longer beholden to a king. Having recently picked up some new arcane knowledge on our last adventure, I now want to see if I can improve my old friend's magical belt. With his permission, I take the belt and after investing 69,000gp of my own money (the difference in cost) as well as 128 days in laborious research and crafting (the difference in time), I am now ready to make my Spellcraft check. The DC is 36 as I have none of the prerequisite spells (wasn't much of a buffer). Not having a high enough Spellcraft modifier to take a 10, I make the check by rolling.
The GM rolls secretly on my behalf. Because he rolled a natural 1, and because that is far below the target DC, I've failed the check and it remains a belt of giant strength +4. What's more, I've accidentally and unknowingly turned the belt into a cursed item. Had I succeeded in the check, I would have had a fully functional Belt of Physical Perfection +6 with a CL of 16.
I return it to my fighter friend with the sad news of my failure. Upon our next adventure, we all come to a nasty surprise when we discover the truth of the belt's horrifying curse.
***
What's wrong with that? It's all perfectly within the rules AND it's fun and exciting. If you look closely at the item creation rules, you would know that the Belt of Physical Perfection is just a Belt of Giant Strength, a Belt of Might Constitution, and a Belt of Incredible Dexterity crammed into one item. It even uses the 50% price hike formula for the latter two belts shown in the magic item creation guidelines!
Why wouldn't I then, be able to take a Belt of Giant Strength +2, add the properties of a Belt of Incredible Dexterity +2 and end up with a Belt of Physical Might? The game designers did it. It's all right there in the rules.
I disagree. I think that regular rules are what I was detailing above. Its RAW and RAI for regular rules, but not sure if it would count at all for society. I do agree that i'd like to see this thread moved to PFS section as it was originally asked pertaining to PFS.I think this should be moved to the PFS section. By regular rules you can just add the ability needed, but PFS has its own crafting rules.
PS:I hit the FAQ button by accident.
A belt of physical might is nothing but a belt with two physical stat modifiers on it. The belt does not have two modifiers because you call it a belt of physical might. It becomes a belt of physical might because it has two stat modifiers. There are no rules against adding a second or 3rd physical stat modifier.
If you look closely at the item creation rules, you would know that the Belt of Physical Perfection is just a Belt of Giant Strength, a Belt of Might Constitution, and a Belt of Incredible Dexterity crammed into one item. It even uses the 50% price hike formula for the latter two belts shown in the magic item creation guidelines!Why wouldn't I then, be able to take a Belt of Giant Strength +2, add the properties of a Belt of Incredible Dexterity +2 and end up with a Belt of Physical Might? The game designers did it. It's all right there in the rules.
I know we don't often agree, but +1. That is how I upgrade them in my games also. There is nothing forcing me, even by the rules to upgrade all that stats at one. I can have a belt with a +4 strength, and +2 dexterity.
I know we don't often agree, but +1. That is how I upgrade them in my games also. There is nothing forcing me, even by the rules to upgrade all that stats at one. I can have a belt with a +4 strength, and +2 dexterity.
A belt +4/+2 is a homebrew item, however, and I would check with the GM first before crafting it.
I as a GM personally would not hesitate to allow such a thing (or to allow it to be upgraded to a true Belt of Phsyical Might later on).
In the meantime I would simply list it as "Belt of Giant Strength +4 (doubles as a Belt of Incredible Dexterity +2)" on the player's character sheet, or some such.
I know we don't often agree, but +1. That is how I upgrade them in my games also. There is nothing forcing me, even by the rules to upgrade all that stats at one. I can have a belt with a +4 strength, and +2 dexterity.A belt +4/+2 is a homebrew item, however, and I would check with the GM first before crafting it.
I as a GM personally would not hesitate to allow such a thing (or to allow it to be upgraded to a true Belt of Phsyical Might later on).
In the meantime I would simply list it as "Belt of Giant Strength +4 (doubles as a Belt of Incredible Dexterity +2)" on the player's character sheet, or some such.
It is homebrew, but the rules support it. I just don't see the the difference between adding +2 twice, and adding the +4 once. In the end you get the same item.
What's wrong with that? It's all perfectly within the rules AND it's fun and exciting. If you look closely at the item creation rules, you would know that the Belt of Physical Perfection is just a Belt of Giant Strength, a Belt of Might Constitution, and a Belt of Incredible Dexterity crammed into one item. It even uses the 50% price hike formula for the latter two belts shown in the magic item creation guidelines!
Why wouldn't I then, be able to take a Belt of Giant Strength +2, add the properties of a Belt of Incredible Dexterity +2 and end up with a Belt of Physical Might? The game designers did it. It's all right there in the rules.
OK BoGS + 2, CL 8.
Upgrade to BoGS + 2, BoID + 2, BoMC + 2 = Belt of Physical Perfection + 2, CL 16 right?
Upgrade to BoGS + 4, BoID + 2, BoMC + 2. Is it still a Belt of Physical Perfection + 2? What's the CL?
What's wrong with that? It's all perfectly within the rules AND it's fun and exciting. If you look closely at the item creation rules, you would know that the Belt of Physical Perfection is just a Belt of Giant Strength, a Belt of Might Constitution, and a Belt of Incredible Dexterity crammed into one item. It even uses the 50% price hike formula for the latter two belts shown in the magic item creation guidelines!
Why wouldn't I then, be able to take a Belt of Giant Strength +2, add the properties of a Belt of Incredible Dexterity +2 and end up with a Belt of Physical Might? The game designers did it. It's all right there in the rules.
OK BoGS + 2, CL 8.
Upgrade to BoGS + 2, BoID + 2, BoMC + 2 = Belt of Physical Perfection + 2, CL 16 right?
Upgrade to BoGS + 4, BoID + 2, BoMC + 2. Is it still a Belt of Physical Perfection + 2? What's the CL?
To the first: Yes.
To the second: At that point, it's a homebrew item and the CL is set by the PC and/or the GM. Generally, I personally would use the highest CL of the component items, though I may make an exception in this case.
Since it ends up being a homebrew item anyways, there is no reason the caster can't make the final caster level whatever he wants it to be, provided he can make the Spellcraft check for it.
That's what GMs are for, to make sensible rulings on gray areas.
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It is homebrew, but the rules support it. I just don't see the the difference between adding +2 twice, and adding the +4 once. In the end you get the same item.I know we don't often agree, but +1. That is how I upgrade them in my games also. There is nothing forcing me, even by the rules to upgrade all that stats at one. I can have a belt with a +4 strength, and +2 dexterity.A belt +4/+2 is a homebrew item, however, and I would check with the GM first before crafting it.
I as a GM personally would not hesitate to allow such a thing (or to allow it to be upgraded to a true Belt of Phsyical Might later on).
In the meantime I would simply list it as "Belt of Giant Strength +4 (doubles as a Belt of Incredible Dexterity +2)" on the player's character sheet, or some such.
Are you sure about that? I'm not terribly up to speed on the rules for crafting wondrous items, but if it similar to the cost for adding pluses to a weapon, then there is a big difference between two +2's and a +4. A +2 weapon, for instance, costs 8000 gp, so two of them would cost 16,000 gp. A +4 weapon costs 32,000. Is it different for wondrous items?
At that point, it's a homebrew item and the CL is set by the PC and/or the GM.
Why would it be a homebrew item? You said yourself that it is perfectly with in the rules to upgrade an item like so.
I contend that all the combined abilities do not equal a BoPP + 2.
If you continue to upgrade the belt piece by piece, it slips in and out of being a belt of physical prowess to a belt of physical perfection and back again, switching CLs per the item descriptions up and down.
"For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell but not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself."
At that point, it's a homebrew item and the CL is set by the PC and/or the GM.Why would it be a homebrew item? You said yourself that it is perfectly with in the rules to upgrade an item like so.
I contend that all the combined abilities do not equal a BoPP + 2.
If you continue to upgrade the belt piece by piece, it slips in and out of being a belt of physical prowess to a belt of physical perfection and back again, switching CLs per the item descriptions up and down.
Oh by default I would never allow someone to go backwards (or even sideways). Once a belt of giant strength +2 is made into a belt of physical might +2, it can only thereafter be made into a belt of physical might +4, +6, or into a belt of physical perfection.
To make it into anything else, immediately makes it into a homebrew item and requires special GM permission. Simply put, anything not in the rulebooks is a homebrew item (which makes all combo items homebrew be default if they aren't in the book).
"For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell but not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself."
You may notice that I've stuck with that rule for all non-homebrew items.
However, if the CL is not listed in the book BECAUSE it is a homebrew item, it falls to the GM (and possibly his player as well) to determine the CL, does it not? Is the GM not the final arbiter of all homebrew items in his game?
To make it into anything else, immediately makes it into a homebrew item and requires special GM permission. Simply put, anything not in the rulebooks is a homebrew item (which makes all combo items homebrew be default if they aren't in the book).You may notice that I've stuck with that rule for all non-homebrew items.
However, if the CL is not listed in the book BECAUSE it is a homebrew item, it falls to the GM (and possibly his player as well) to determine the CL, does it not? Is the GM not the final arbiter of all homebrew items in his game?
It doesn't even have to be a homebrew item if done properly.
Belt of Giant Strength +2 (CL8) gets Might Constitution +2 (CL8)in your world makes it a Belt of Physical Prowess +2 (CL12).
I am saying it just becomes a Belt of Giant Strength +2 (CL8) with the Might Constitution +2 ability and remains CL8.
In your example, if you wanted the item to get Belt of Giant Strength +4 (CL12) and Might Constitution +2 (CL12), it becomes a homebrew item and falls out of the realm of the Core Rulebook.
If you keep the abilities separate and keep the CL 8, it's simply adding additonal abilities as per the Core Rulebook.
IMO, upgrading a Belt of Giant Strength +2 (CL8) with Might Constitution +2 (CL8) and calling it a Belt of Physical Prowess +2 makes it a homebrew item. They are separate items with similar abilities.
Call it whatever you want though. You can add the ability to fly to the belt and call it a albatross. That doesn't make it an albatross.
I am saying it just becomes a Belt of Giant Strength +2 (CL8) with the Might Constitution +2 ability and remains CL8.
If a player really wanted to make a homebrew item that amounted to a weaker Belt of Physical Prowess (perhaps his Spellcraft mod is really low), I see no reason to deny it to him.
In your example, if you wanted the item to get Belt of Giant Strength +4 (CL12) and Might Constitution +2 (CL12), it becomes a homebrew item and falls out of the realm of the Core Rulebook.
Exactly.
If you keep the abilities separate and keep the CL 8, it's simply adding additional abilities as per the Core Rulebook.
Keep in mind that the rules for adding additional abilities are guidelines. As such, they require GM adjudication (much like what I'm doing in this discussion).
IMO, upgrading a Belt of Giant Strength +2 (CL8) with Might Constitution +2 (CL8) and calling it a Belt of Physical Prowess +2 makes it a homebrew item. They are separate items with similar abilities.
Now you've got it! It all comes down to what the GM is willing to do in his games.
Call it whatever you want though. You can add the ability to fly to the belt and call it a albatross. That doesn't make it an albatross.
No, but I can rule that adding a belt +2 to another belt +2 makes a belt of physical prowess (requiring the higher Spellcaft DC to make) as that's essentially what it is. Such a ruling simplifies things for everyone, keeps the game moving forward, and keeps the game within the established rules (which means I don't have to worry about balance implications).
Are you sure about that? I'm not terribly up to speed on the rules for crafting wondrous items, but if it similar to the cost for adding pluses to a weapon, then there is a big difference between two +2's and a +4. A +2 weapon, for instance, costs 8000 gp, so two of them would cost 16,000 gp. A +4 weapon costs 32,000. Is it different for wondrous items?It is homebrew, but the rules support it. I just don't see the the difference between adding +2 twice, and adding the +4 once. In the end you get the same item.I know we don't often agree, but +1. That is how I upgrade them in my games also. There is nothing forcing me, even by the rules to upgrade all that stats at one. I can have a belt with a +4 strength, and +2 dexterity.A belt +4/+2 is a homebrew item, however, and I would check with the GM first before crafting it.
I as a GM personally would not hesitate to allow such a thing (or to allow it to be upgraded to a true Belt of Phsyical Might later on).
In the meantime I would simply list it as "Belt of Giant Strength +4 (doubles as a Belt of Incredible Dexterity +2)" on the player's character sheet, or some such.
I am saying adding a +2 and then making the +2 into a +4, and making it into a +4 the first time still give you the same item at the same price. I worded it badly the first time.
Ok, once again, PATHFINDER SOCIETY QUESTION. I'm using caps to emphasize that although I definately support the use of homebrew rules in homegames if it is going to make everyone have a better time, whether or not you feel like rules should be interpreted a certain way in your game is irrelevant. Sorry to sound mean I'm definately not trying to be, I love homegames and the very fact that you can throw out rules you think are silly. We do it all the time in homegames I've been in, makes it a little more YOUR game, and I love it. But really the OP plays in my pathfinder society group and his question is pertaining to that only, sry to butt in on a good conversation, but if you want to talk homebrew rules you like to use we should make a seperate thread in my opinion. I'd like to get to the bottom of this as a pfs question, so if anyone knows please stick a link in here to a Josh Frost ruling or something so we can kill this one.
We are discussing the rules of the game. Seeing as how this thread was posted in the RULES QUESTIONS section of the forums rather than the PATHFINDER SOCIETY section, and we are all discussing which interpretation of magic item upgrades the RAW supports, we are all very much on topic.
If that isn't what you and/or your player wanted, you should report the thread as being in the wrong forum section so as to get it moved to the right place.
Oh by the way I do think its silly for a belt or headband of stats to have to follow this ruling, and I'd interpret it for a game i ran the same way as you guys, but I'd also have to admit i was homebrewing it when i did unfortunately.
Since belts of dex occupy a specific place on your body (belt) you would pay *1.5 of the cost of a belt of dex to add it to your existing item.
That is what is in the rulebook. I don't see where you are disagreeing with me as far as regular rules. I don't think PFS will allow it. IIRC, they don't allow crafting feats. I have never played PFS so don't quote me on that. It might be easier to copy and paste the OP question over to the PFS section.
...I just think it is a slippery slop that we shouldn't go down.
Slipper slope is a fallacious argument.
[quote=]Slippery Slope Fallacy (Camel's Nose)
there is an old saying about how if you allow a camel to poke his nose into the tent, soon the whole camel will follow.
The fallacy here is the assumption that something is wrong because it is right next to something that is wrong. Or, it is wrong because it could slide towards something that is wrong.
It's like saying "if we allow Joe to walk out his front door, next thing you know he'll be moving to Mexico."
Just because one idea is considered right or ok doesn't mean a similar (yet still different) idea is going to be considered ok.
Making a bow stronger by reinforcing it is a lot different than turning a steel sword into an adamantine sword. In the first case you're just adding material. In the second case, you're replacing the blade entirely.
Ok, once again, PATHFINDER SOCIETY QUESTION. I'm using caps to emphasize that although I definately support the use of homebrew rules in homegames if it is going to make everyone have a better time, whether or not you feel like rules should be interpreted a certain way in your game is irrelevant. Sorry to sound mean I'm definately not trying to be, I love homegames and the very fact that you can throw out rules you think are silly. We do it all the time in homegames I've been in, makes it a little more YOUR game, and I love it. But really the OP plays in my pathfinder society group and his question is pertaining to that only, sry to butt in on a good conversation, but if you want to talk homebrew rules you like to use we should make a seperate thread in my opinion. I'd like to get to the bottom of this as a pfs question, so if anyone knows please stick a link in here to a Josh Frost ruling or something so we can kill this one.We are discussing the rules of the game. Seeing as how this thread was posted in the RULES QUESTIONS section of the forums rather than the PATHFINDER SOCIETY section, and we are all discussing which interpretation of magic item upgrades the RAW supports, we are all very much on topic.
If that isn't what you and/or your player wanted, you should report the thread as being in the wrong forum section so as to get it moved to the right place.
Last time I posted in PFS forums about a rules question it got moved here. I don't think they are answering rules questions for PFS any more.
Keep in mind that the rules for adding additional abilities are guidelines.
Rules are just guidelines...got it.
and keeps the game within the established rules
The rules just being guidelines. I guess you're not picking up on overt sarcasm in my statements.
That's ok. My ADD is kicking in.
Also anything said above that didn't follow the rule that a belt of giant strength will always be a belt of giant strength is in my understanding false.
+1
You just can't do it in pfs play tmk. Also in my opinion any homegame that doesn't follow the rules as written or at least intended is following a homebrew ruling,and should at least be identified as such.
That's all I'm saying! Thank you for putting it so articulately.
Keep in mind that the rules for adding additional abilities are guidelines.Rules are just guidelines...got it.
When it comes to making entirely new magical items they certainly are. ;P
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]We are discussing the rules of the game. Seeing as how this thread was posted in the RULES QUESTIONS section of the forums rather than the PATHFINDER SOCIETY section, and we are all discussing which interpretation of magic item upgrades the RAW supports, we are all very much on topic.
If that isn't what you and/or your player wanted, you should report the thread as being in the wrong forum section so as to get it moved to the right place.
Actually, if you read the whole thread you will see that this was originally in the PFS section and erroneously moved.
Actually, if you read the whole thread you will see that this was originally in the PFS section and erroneously moved.]We are discussing the rules of the game. Seeing as how this thread was posted in the RULES QUESTIONS section of the forums rather than the PATHFINDER SOCIETY section, and we are all discussing which interpretation of magic item upgrades the RAW supports, we are all very much on topic.
If that isn't what you and/or your player wanted, you should report the thread as being in the wrong forum section so as to get it moved to the right place.
Yeah, that is what I found happened to me.
When it comes to making entirely new magical items they certainly are. ;P
The belt isn't an entirely new magical item. Its perfectly within the perview of the rules. ;;PPP
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Ok, once again, PATHFINDER SOCIETY QUESTION. I'm using caps to emphasize that although I definately support the use of homebrew rules in homegames if it is going to make everyone have a better time, whether or not you feel like rules should be interpreted a certain way in your game is irrelevant. Sorry to sound mean I'm definately not trying to be, I love homegames and the very fact that you can throw out rules you think are silly. We do it all the time in homegames I've been in, makes it a little more YOUR game, and I love it. But really the OP plays in my pathfinder society group and his question is pertaining to that only, sry to butt in on a good conversation, but if you want to talk homebrew rules you like to use we should make a seperate thread in my opinion. I'd like to get to the bottom of this as a pfs question, so if anyone knows please stick a link in here to a Josh Frost ruling or something so we can kill this one.
Here it is: Josh's posting and quoted below incase the url gets damaged,
Since Sean indicates that's acceptable by Core Rules, then that's acceptable in Society play.
The best I can find is a post by Sean found here which states yes you can. He clearly indicates that he doesn't make these decisions for PFSOP though.
2. Can a +2 Belt of Giant Strength be upgraded to a +2 STR, +2 Dex Belt of Physical Might? In last week's discussion both sides had their supporters.
And Sean's posting is here. of
I don't make rulings for Pathfinder Society OP, but IMO there's no reason you couldn't upgrade a belt of Str +2 to a belt of Str +2 and Dex +2, in the same sense that you can upgrade a +1 longsword to a +1 frost longsword.
So, you have an official "Yes" it is legal from the guy that was in charge of PFS at the time. That should be exactly what you asked for.