OOC discussion thread
Flag planting post.
Monk position has been filled. ;)
Between 4 and 6, I'd say. That's Karl's typical run. I'm pretty sure the mod is balanced for 4. I read somewhere that it was a Pathfinder Society module, *and* it's Paizo, so there's a good chance that a 6PC party would steamroll 3/4ths of it, while also being in very real danger of a TPK at least twice. :D
This new version of Yang Jing doesn't have the trapfinding aspects, but he definitely has the "lock one target (preferably a spellcaster) down" skillset.
So we're missing the Face, the Trapfinder, the Healer, the Tank, and any/all of the Arcane Caster roles (actually, *any* caster roles at all).
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Just thinking aloud here...
For tanks, interesting tournament attendees would be:
- Vigilante (fist-i-lante) (has skills and could be face, too)
- Iron caster fighter
Also some sort dragon disciple would be nice for magic/tanky gish.
Inspire courage would have great synergy with the dakka-dakka Zen archer. So a bard could be fun. Buffs and control and (face-)skills and maybe some combat options, too.
How many players are we expecting?
We'll be minimum 4, maybe 5. Just sent the board link to player 4.
Inspire courage would have great synergy with the dakka-dakka Zen archer. So a bard could be fun. Buffs and control and (face-)skills and maybe some combat options, too.
I'm gonna get my all-bard party sometime. I don't know when but I have faith that it's gonna happen. :)
*A* Bard can be nice to have along. Especially for public tournament-type things (having the crowd on our side could be helpful). An entire party of bards is just asking for trouble. Multiple paternity suits, if nothing else.
I think this mod might use performance combat, let me check.
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Yep, you can get morale bonuses or penalties (max +/-2) based on how well you're playing the crowd. The rules are on the SRD here.
Then I'm definitely on-board with having a bard in the group.
Yang Jing is more an "are you not entertained!?!" kind of warrior than a play to the crowd type. And with a Cha penalty, he's gonna need the help with winning the crowd.
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I’ll take a look if I can cook up something interesting for bard. I just wonder if s/he’s not very combat-oriented, what’s the motivation to take part in a tournament… Cheer the own team to victory?
Geisha/courtier/spy type would also fit the oriental theme.
Or maybe a complete opposite: a chelish diva coming show these foreigners how the fighting is done…
I also have long wanted the all-bard/skald group- but always gotten some weird looks when suggesting it ;)
I have read that the PCs are supposed to be a team already, and that the team was invited to participate. YJ and Hiro connected with each other at the Worldwound, and kinda did a "hey! You've got a similar accent to me! We should hang out!" So your PC, bard or otherwise, could have met us there, and be from wherever.
Karl is a big believer in Big Damn Heroes.
25-point buy
full WBL
We use the background skills rules
House Rules are same as from Strange Aeons, which are the same as these.
The biggest thing to know is that we use an abbreviated version of the Elephant in the Room streamlined feats/combat rules.
And the Scaling Feats rules.
Both are found at that link above.
I also have long wanted the all-bard/skald group- but always gotten some weird looks when suggesting it ;)
Bards are like Clerics in that you can build them to fit any role.
In 35 years of RPG, I have never actually played a bard. But I would for an all-bard game.
Karl is a big believer in Big Damn Heroes.
25-point buy
full WBL
We use the background skills rulesHouse Rules are same as from Strange Aeons, which are the same as these.
Yep, everything YJ has said is correct (also the feat tax stuff).
Re bards, arguably pro wrestlers and luchadors are entertainers more than actual combatants. I have an Intimidate build arcane duelist bard I modeled on the Rock that I really like playing.
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ok, made one crunch-draft of the bard
This would be primarily-support Bard (Duettist) with VMC Cavalier.
On average combat he would start with good hope for +2 atk/dmg/saves (morale bonus) and inspire courage for +6 atk/dmg (competence).
Then haste etc to buff further and saving finale/liberating command etc. to keep allies out of trouble
Can give teamwork feats for everyone. Standard action dazzling display, with a chance of panicking the enemies.
Not much in the way of AC, but mirror image / greater invisibility hopefully avoids getting hurt. If enemies get too close, decent attack and damage with Desna's shooting star.
Quite lost with the background and personality, still.
Other option would be to lose some support and gain some combat prowess with a dip or two. But I think Hiro and Yang have that covered.
Yep, pretty sure we have DPS on lock. XD
I suggest leaning support.
GM, for multiclass characters can I use fractional save bonuses and BAB?
Yep, fractional BAB and saves for multiclassing.
Hi, I'm player 4. Thinking about an Iroran mostly-cleric with some Knowledge skills and a lot of healing, depending on what else we have.
GM, for multiclass characters can I use fractional save bonuses and BAB?
Weclome, Player 4!
This link should help. The page is from a different campaign, but it's Karl's usual house rules list.
Also:
25-point buy
Full WBL
We use the background skills rules (as indicated on the linked page above).
ok, made one crunch-draft of the bard
This would be primarily-support Bard (Duettist) with VMC Cavalier.
On average combat he would start with good hope for +2 atk/dmg/saves (morale bonus) and inspire courage for +6 atk/dmg (competence).Then haste etc to buff further and saving finale/liberating command etc. to keep allies out of trouble
Can give teamwork feats for everyone. Standard action dazzling display, with a chance of panicking the enemies.
Not much in the way of AC, but mirror image / greater invisibility hopefully avoids getting hurt. If enemies get too close, decent attack and damage with Desna's shooting star.
Quite lost with the background and personality, still.
Other option would be to lose some support and gain some combat prowess with a dip or two. But I think Hiro and Yang have that covered.
Yeah, as Hiro said, DPS (and single-target lockdown) are pretty handled.
I believe both Hiro and Yang Jing have Boots of Speed as well, so 10 rounds of self-Haste/day for each, means you can do other stuff the first round or two without fear. If you're tossing out Good Hope/Inspire Courage early, I can replace a few potions of Heroism. Yay!
As for background, happy to brainstorm with you, just let me know. We can hop on Discord (text or voice) or DMs here, or whatever works for you.
For both of you, just because we have "gaps" in the party, don't make characters you won't enjoy playing just to "fill gaps." We don't necessarily want 4 high-DPS martials as a party, but then again, if the enemy is all dead by the end of round 1, we call that "preemptive healing." :-) And Karl loves "cool story" gaming, so let's have fun!
Happy to help with crunch or background or whatever, for anyone.
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I'm a bit lazy with Discord, and being in EEST timezone, my active hours might differ from others. Not impossible idea, tho.
Random background ideas regarding the tournament:
- participated in the tournament as a brash youngster, and failed. Vowed to return and win one day. Time passed, realised he's too old now to beat anyone by himself - but knows he can strive others to victory
- there must be some price for winning it? Wants/needs it desperately, so gathers a team to win
- a personal enemy is in the tournament, this is a opportunity to rid of him
- are there any political machinations behind/around the tournament. Could be a person of interest in Goka(?), meddling in to ensure the teams victory
- misunderstood artist from the western lands, seeing this as an excellent opportunity to make a performance of a lifetime
Tie-ins to Yang & Hiro:
- met in Worldwound (some reason to fight in the crusade)
- or in Tian Xia (childhood friends, or just gathering a fighting team)
Feel free to comment on any of that.
As for crunch: would there be any teamwork feats you'd like? like outflank is classic, but pretty useless if there's only one in melee.
EEST isn't *that* bad, as long as you're not also a "morning person." It's about 4:30 pm for you as I type this, which is 9:30am for me. And Karl and I tend to be active on the boards during what most people would consider "the work day" in US Eastern time.
Anyway, to your background/questions.
Teamwork Feat: YJ is a "rush the back line" melee striker. Which means he probably isn't going to benefit too much from Teamwork feats, unless we're fighting one big-bad, and there's another melee PC standing next to/flanking for him. On the other hand, Hiro is *the* ranged DPS guy, and I assume that one or both of the other PCs will be able to keep a ranged weapon in hand. If so, Target of Opportunity might be a good one. Though I'm not sure how many enemies will regularly be alive to need an extra ranged attack made against them after Hiro goes full Flurry on them...
Shake it Off could be helpful defensively.
Stealth Synergy maybe, since YJ and Hiro both have pretty solid stealth, being able to help the other two be sneaky could matter.
And, again, if we're fighting a big-bad, and YJ is threatening the same bad guy as the other party members, giving him Advantage on trip attempts could be *very* significant (his CMB on Trip attacks is solid, but Nat-1s happen 5% of the time...). So Tandem Trip would be situationally VERY useful.
Regarding Background: The tournament happens every 10 years, I think, so the "lost in the past" thing might work. And if he's old enough to have known Hiro's and Yang Jing's parents (or even just one of them - they are the equivalent of having grown up in Beijing and Edo, so weren't childhood buddies), I could see him calling on that network of favors and noble responsibility that never gets explicitly talked about to bring us into his team. One would bring the other, since YJ and Hiro have been traveling together. Which would explain why the two of them came back to Tian Xia at all.
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My first draft had low intelligence and archetype that lost bardic knowledge, so there’s plenty of space for someone to know stuff. But if I need high knowledge, there’s always the cheesy masterpiece Pageant of the Peacock.
For teamwork feats, shake it off could indeed benefit everyone.Blood for the empire is another. But if feels like there is no great benefit from teamwork feats, I can drop the cavalier vmc.
If we're not gang-tackling bad guys, I don't know how beneficial Teamwork feats will be. Especially any that require flanking or "adjacent to" ally positioning. There are definitely some situations where they can be amazing though, so up to you.
I'm a bit lazy with Discord, and being in EEST timezone, my active hours might differ from others. Not impossible idea, tho.
I work nights EST, so my active hours are around 20:00 GMT to 10:00 GMT. XD Odd hours are kinda a thing around here.
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OK, I think I have something. I'll probably reuse an old alias, but the basic character concept is a Tien UMonk2/Cloistered Cleric (Irori)9. Before he retired to a monastery in Tian Xia, he fought demons and their followers at the Worldwound, which was where he met Hiro Kaneda and Yang Jing--he was preparing to return to Tian Xia around the time they showed up there, and swapped stories with them to prepare them for the fight and him for what home was going to be like. He'll have a lot of ranks in Knowledge skills, and will otherwise function as a backup face, a healer, and a limited inspirer of competence with his Verbal Instruction ability.
OK, I think I have something. I'll probably reuse an old alias, but the basic character concept is a Tien UMonk2/Cloistered Cleric (Irori)9. Before he retired to a monastery in Tian Xia, he fought demons and their followers at the Worldwound, which was where he met Hiro Kaneda and Yang Jing--he was preparing to return to Tian Xia around the time they showed up there, and swapped stories with them to prepare them for the fight and him for what home was going to be like. He'll have a lot of ranks in Knowledge skills, and will otherwise function as a backup face, a healer, and a limited inspirer of competence with his Verbal Instruction ability.
That sounds solid. Yang Jing and Hiro didn't arrive together, but they did gravitate together pretty quickly, so as long as your guy was there at the same time as both, it all works.
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I can work with that. As for why he's with the party, Hiro and Yang Jing put out the word that they needed a decent healer for the tournament, and <insert name here> couldn't resist the chance to get out into the field again. It'll take him a little while to get used to life outside the monastery, though....
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Alternative bard background idea: not an entertainer but a military commander. Perhaps an entitled noble, who against all expectations was pretty good at his job. At least liked by everyone, if not the sharpest military mind. Perhaps hears about the tournament from Yang & Hiro, and goes all "Capital idea, boys! Let's go win some fights, show them all what the veterans of the crusade are made of!"
Anyway, still mulling over, I'll start working to create an alias next.
I'm totally on board with Yang Jing and Hiro *NOT* being the ones who received the invite to the tournament.
It might be interesting if <insert Healer here> were to get the call while he was in the monastery, for some reason, and he couldn't resist the call. He knew he needed help though, so sent a message to Hiro, YJ, and <KarmicAlias>, that "I need your help."
So we all show up, ready to put down demons, and <IHH> is all, "Thanks for coming! So, there's this tournament..."
Yep same. I'm pretty flexible with who, exactly, kicks this whole thing off. Could be amusing that the most unlikely one is called back, and reaches out to his/her friends.
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Yeah, it could be funny if Worldwound veterans rush all the way to Tian Xia to respond to a call for help, only to find out it's about a competition.
Also, meh for the alias. The website has merely changed from showing the ysoki to showing the goblin.
For the background, I feel gravitating toward the commander type. Probably something between Nicomo Cosca (from First Law series) and Daario Naharis (from asoiaf).
BTW, as one option I looking at taking an improved familiar, and one this rather silly creature. I'm not sure how serious gameplay we're planning to do, but would a effin' air-blasting, flying hamster ruin your fun (or the way you're envisioning the story)? I'm not sold on the idea yet, either, but things like that might take this into more anime-territory... And I don't want to go silly if others want more serious drama, etc.
BTW, as one option I looking at taking an improved familiar, and one this rather silly creature. I'm not sure how serious gameplay we're planning to do, but would a effin' air-blasting, flying hamster ruin your fun (or the way you're envisioning the story)? I'm not sold on the idea yet, either, but things like that might take this into more anime-territory... And I don't want to go silly if others want more serious drama, etc.
Yang Jing is built along a pretty serious theme - that of "Ruthlessness is mercy" - and serving the General of Vengeance. He's going to struggle with this whole, "death can happen in the tournament, but it's mostly a 'friendly(ish)' competition" thing.
Which is *not* incompatible with anime. I mean, Goblin Slayer is anime, right?
I suspect it's not really a "light, funny" module/AP, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for lightening the mood. A badass hamster blasting bad guys in the air wouldn't bother me. I was seeing the concept as being more "Crouching Tiger" than "Kung-Fu Panda," but it doesn't have to be "Bloodsport" (though now that I think about it, that movie had some - probably unintentional - amusing moments, too).
All of which is to say, if you want to bring the flying hamster, bring the flying hamster. Just maybe don't expect to be Ash?
The few reviews I read about this mod said to lean into the anime aspect, so I'd expect a bit of silliness here and there.
As far as Hiro goes, I'm not planning to make him too serious. More like a side character who spouts pithy zen nonsense every so often.
As long as your giant space hamster isn't miniature, then I guess it's fine. ;) (No copyright strikes here!)
"Get him, Boo!"
"Wait!? You can see the bloody hamster as well? I'll be damned, I thought it was just delirium from those diabolical wines..."
A bard draft here, for the Cavalier VMC variant (aka no-hamster variant). And I'll need to adjust for the customer feat rules etc.
I should note, without a deadline, I'm terrible at deciding anything :D
"Wait!? You can see the bloody hamster as well? I'll be damned, I thought it was just delirium from those diabolical wines..."
A bard draft here, for the Cavalier VMC variant (aka no-hamster variant). And I'll need to adjust for the customer feat rules etc.
I should note, without a deadline, I'm terrible at deciding anything :D
Looks interesting. I can dig it!
How do we feel about starting Monday?
I'm good with that. We're just waiting on the 2 new PCs and tying all of us together, right?
Monday should work. I do have a bit rough week at work now, but I hope I’ll be able to wrap up the character over weekend.
Fine by me.
If we're *starting* Monday, we'll need completed PCs from Karma and John before then, yes?
This is John's character. I have to transcribe the paper notes and get his gear together.
Almost ready here, some minor shopping left.