Hi all
I admit I@m struggling with this one. I love teh game setting the designers came up with, but the actualy adventure as written is not exactly helpful in how to run it.
Can you guyes help me out a bit? What do your characters actualy want from this game? Lorgan came up with the idea of a lost village that his mother used to live in, and that's one possible way forward. Is there antyhing else any of you want to accomplish?
Cubicle 7's source material puts a lot on the GMs shoulders. It's funny, every GM I've played AiME with has asked the players this same question at some point: What do you want to do?
I would ask, Is your heart still in it? If the other game is your muse now, then it's probably better to let this one go. Our characters had adventures and accomplished things. We all had fun. Faem can follow the sunset home with her head held high.
Thanks for the validation, I fel much better about myself! I *love* Middle Earth and have done since I was like 7 so I don't want to give up on this game. I'm just struggling to provide adventure for you without knowing what your characters are investded in. I'm game to continue if you are.
(Separately, I'm having resvations about the 5e and PF gaming model but that's a different thing)
I'd be interested to learn your concerns. For me, 5E was a good system to get back into gaming with. I more or less gave up gaming for 30 years and found pathfinder intimidating. Now that I've played pathfinder I prefer that complexity and flexibility.
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I think it wasn't until I strated GMing that it made me realise the issues. As a player, 5e and PF even more so offer great number of options and ways to build your character. It wasn't until I sat on this side of the table that I saw the limitations. Partly it's expectation that the GM carries the game forward. Good players will do stuff to try and help with that, create backstories that give motivation to move forward and be proactive, but the rules aren't focused on that. Personality and motivation are basically optional. That leaves the GM with a lot to fill in, it's no wonder so many of the APs are basically a railroad, this happens and then this happens and then this happens.
The other thing is the dice rolls, and this goes double for PF2 with its ridiculous DCs. If you fail the roll, or critical fail, that's it. The game requires you to get through that door? Well sorry, missy, if you don't hit the disable device DC to unlock it, then the whole party is stuck here until you do. Trying to work out who killed the professor? Oh too bad, you blew the perception and sense motivee rolls so you get nothing. It's a shame, there were some great clues there. Or in combat, we all rolled and we all missed. Oh well, next round.
Dice rolls should mean something. Even if you roll badly, something should happen. It might not be what you *wanted* to happen, but game should move forward somehow. If you look at the BitD game I'm running, you'll see that every dice roll is significant in some way. And for some reason, that gives the players huge scope to take part in building out the game world, creating NPCs from scratch and telling the GM what's going on, rather than it being on the GM to make all those decisions. I don't quite understand why one of those things follow from the other, but it does. It did in our tabletop BitD game as well.
D&D is combat simulater with story and RP nailed on afterwards. The dice *determine* the narrative: if you roll high enough, you get through the door. If you don't, roll again and again and again until you do.
I'm moving more an more towards games where the divce *shape* the narrative: if the game requires that you get thru the door, a bad roll doesn't stop you. It means you pay a price for getting past the door. In this system, the question isn't "can you solve the murder?" Instead it becomes "can you solve the murder in time to stop the bad guy getting away and/or from framing *you* for the murder?" In the first, if you roll badly you've got no idea what's going on. In the second, bad rolls still mean you work out what's going on (so you *stay invested in the game*) but dammit you were juuuuust too late to stop the bad guy. Maybe the next bit of the adventure will now involve tracking them down and clearing your name. So even sucky rolls move the game forward.
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I totally get that. And it's an impossible task for a GM to both manage a successful game and have a life. There's one guy, Tareth, who seems to do it well, and I don't know how he does it. He puts an incredible amount of time into all of his games.
You did a good job here getting players that were invested in characters and rp. I apologize for occasionally not rising to the moment with Faem. But that's the reality - sometimes our heads and hearts just aren't in it, and then there's some comfort in letting dicebot do the work. I think, too often, there are players who either spread themselves too thin or are simply not creative writers, and all you ever get from them is a sentence and a roll. That's what drives me nuts as both a player and GM.
Cubicle 7's source material puts a lot on the GMs shoulders.
I'd just second that and say it doesn't get any easier at higher levels. In fact, it just gets worse. First, because there are almost no higher challenge enemies to be found in the materials. The Loremaster's Guide doesn't go above challenge 6 enemies. There are one or two other higher level monsters scattered among the entire AiME library. Even the Lord of the Nazgul is only a Challenge 13 monster. Combine that with PC's that can usually punch well above their level (except for straight Scholar) and GM's are forced into a lot of improve to make challenging combat encounters after level 5 or 6. (As a side note: I think this is largely due to the fact that the materials and adventures really weren't meant for 5E, but The One Ring. AiME kind of feels like a last minute effort to take advantage of 5E's popularity by writers that didn't alway understand the workings of 5E.)
Second, most of the C7 adventures are very railroady and don't provide a lot of additional details. (I don't know why, but I really hate the ones that require the PC's to get trapped and 'rescued' by the eagles. They use that quite a lot.) If PC's wander off the beaten path, you've either got to drag them back or you're winging it with very little source material to help you out. So in the game I ended up running, I've just had to wing things and rely on my old MERP materials or improv to flesh out layouts, little historic details, and other elements. I think in that game, I've only actually used a few pages of actual C7 material beyond some NPC names and maps. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, it certainly does take time.
If you are up for continuing, I'm happy to do so. Guthrim's general goal would be to help his people and others in need. It seems like he's done a little to establish himself as willing to stand against the shadow and rally others to do so. I think his really big goal would be to eventually help establish a new settlement that reclaims his families old lands east of the forest. (Not really all that achievable until after the War of the Ring, but he doesn't know that. :) ) At the very least he needs to know if Grimm is alive or dead. :)
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And now I just realized that Guthrim is Tareth.
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And now I just realized that Guthrim is Tareth.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
"There's this one guy, maybe you've heard of him? Name of Tareth. Nah, you probably don't know him, but lemme tell all of you about this guy, who you don't know. He's almost as good as whoever it is that's playing Guthrim...." =)
GM Sarah, the system you've been looking for your whole life is called Dungeon World .
The tldr description of it is BitD, but even more rules-lite, and not so...depressing always ever. It's fantasy (and it even has rules for other settings. One time we were in SPACE! and I was playing a vampire* and it was AMAZING!)
Also DW uses 2d6 for dice roll, so things are a little more balanced.
Give it a look-see and tell me what ya think.
*The GM actually didn't wanna let me play a Vampire because one time this one guy he knew did it but was a total munchkin jerk about it. But everyone else in the game was shooting plasma guns or was a battle robot or things, so it seemed like since everyone else was going all RIFTS about things, then it would be more okay. It turns out the class wasn't munchkin-y, and was a LOT of fun to play. Indeed, I dare say that I've always wanted to play a vampire, but no other system does it right -except- for DW.
And now I just realized that Guthrim is Tareth.HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
"There's this one guy, maybe you've heard of him? Name of Tareth. Nah, you probably don't know him, but lemme tell all of you about this guy, who you don't know. He's almost as good as whoever it is that's playing Guthrim...." =)
I should've guessed. There aren't 5 people on all of Paizo that know Middle Earth as well.
And now I see that you, GM Sarah, are in Tareth's campaign. Well, don't I feel like an idiot. You know, I GM'd that game for a short while.
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*The GM actually didn't wanna let me play a Vampire because one time this one guy he knew did it but was a total munchkin jerk about it. But everyone else in the game was shooting plasma guns or was a battle robot or things, so it seemed like since everyone else was going all RIFTS about things, then it would be more okay. It turns out the class wasn't munchkin-y, and was a LOT of fun to play. Indeed, I dare say that I've always wanted to play a vampire, but no other system does it right -except- for DW.
I was completely unaware of this add-on for DW with the Vampire class, and can only say that my life has been incomplete until this moment.
D&D is combat simulater with story and RP nailed on afterwards.
This comment reminds me of the bit in Big Bang Theory when Amy pointed out how irrelevant Indy is to the plot of Raiders of the Lost Ark...
Sorry to all for my intermittent radio silence. I'm still here and still interested in pursuing this game, but I understand the difficulties. My attempt at running this (before I lost 2 of the players) worked because I ignored most of the suggested adventure as-written and ran my own thing. I have an especial hatred of deus ex machina -just because Tolkien did it, doesn't make it right.
I have to say that your world-building (particularly your interpretation of Radagast) has been first class and I'd love to see more of it.
And now I just realized that Guthrim is Tareth.
Ha, I've donte this more times than I can count, I'm glad it's not jsut me! :)
@everone - thanks for your support. I'd like to keep this game going if we can. ultimately the theem of the Mirkwood campaign is failure - you aren't the ones who are going to defeat the Shadow, all you can do is buy some time. Bt that doesn't mean you can't havve some fun and some wins along the way. I think if you could each give me a goal you want to accomplish that would help a lot :)
@Agnar - thanks, I will take a look at DW. I think though that what I'd real;ly like to try is something like Fate, where there's not even any classes - there's just aspects, so even character creation is roleplay. Also, you only have to track 4 "moves" (overcome obstacle, create advantage, attack, defend). I think the potential for it to go wrong is *HUGE* - you'd absolutely need to have teh right group, and everyone would need to buy in to the setting. But if it went right, I think it woud be *amazing*
And now I just realized that Guthrim is Tareth.
Ha! Glad we got that all sorted out. :)
Sarah: I share your desire to give FATE a try as I'm trending toward fewer rules rather than more myself these days. (I went through my crunchy phase a decade or two ago when all my group played was GURPS, Champions, or 3E and eventually PF.)
I've owned the FATE books since their first Kickstarter. But haven't had enough enthusiasm from my local group to really give it a go. Just like BitD, I agree it would take a little getting used to, but after that it could be really fun. I've thought about doing something in the PbP format, but haven't had the time or desire to do all the front work needed to set something like that up.
If one of the games I'm currently running ends up winding down, I'll have to go back and look through my FATE, Spirit of the Century, and Achtung Cthulhu stuff to see if there might be something interesting there. I also thought a FATE/Deadlands would be pretty interesting. It would be nice to actually try giving something a go one of these days.
I think I shared some general IC goals for Guthrim, but if you want something a bit more specific and immediate, he'd be interested in trying to find out the reasons behind this sudden surge in troll attacks. As well as possibly establishing Woodsedge as a potential Sanctuary and Amaleaod as a contact/patron. I guess those would be Fellowship Phase actions, but if Grimm is gone, then I've got a lot fewer things to do during that aspect of the game.
Thanks Guthrim, I did see that but it got lost in the other dsicussions :)
Spoiler: Grimm has survived, he's out of action for now but will recover in the Fellowship phase. I think your gola of a new settlement works well, we will start looking into that soon. In terms of why ther'es so many trolls, that's less of a mystery. As Beorn and (spoiler - another NPC yet to arrive) have notied, Dol Guldur is starting to reopen for business and is attracting evil thigns.
Faem/Agnar - are there any goals taht you are intrested in pursuing?
If one of the games I'm currently running ends up winding down, I'll have to go back and look through my FATE, Spirit of the Century, and Achtung Cthulhu stuff to see if there might be something interesting there. I also thought a FATE/Deadlands would be pretty interesting. It would be nice to actually try giving something a go one of these days.
FATE/Deadlands, did you say? XD XD XD
I had a look at the FATE system a while back, and would definitely be interested in giving it a go at some stage.
Lorgan would definitely be up for helping Guthrim reclaim the ancestral lands of the Woodmen. If he can find the village where his mother grew up in the process, that's an added bonus.
It's not that Faem is a non-traditionalist looking to upset the apple cart, she's just trying to learn more about why the world is the way it is, and if there is anything she can do about it. She doesn't suffer fools lightly. Working-class grit is her foundation, and she owes no fealty to Man or God.
Faem does, however, believe in supernatural evil, and she is driven to seek it out and expose it to the world.
The concerns of Woodmen mean little to Faem, except where they coincide with her desire to get to the the root of things.
Hello
I'm ata wedding this weekend - my first real social event since March 2020 - so I will be not posting until Monday.
This game still active?
Hi all, just to let you know that Sarah's been in hospital: it's not Covid, she had an accident. The good news is she's OK; she's keen to get back to posting (genuine quote: "I'm bored out my f***ing skull here, tell me a story!") but struggling with pain management and other dull RL things.
So, if you're open to hanging around then this game will probably carry on after a slight delay.
Hello.
I am back and if you want to keep this game going then let me know and I will post somthing in gameplay :)
I'm still here.
i'm really sorry but I'm having pain mangment issues and sitting for too long and typing isn't helping. I'm going to have to let this game go, I can't GM by posting from my phone :(
@Sarah, I'm sorry to hear that but not surprised given what you've told me :(
@Everyone: the talk earlier about other gaming systems has prompted me to want to give the Fate system a try out. Would anyone else be interested in giving it a go with me if I offered to run a one-off game? I'd probably set it in the 40K universe: it's been a while since I gamed there and I'm familiar enough with its tropes that I'm reasonably confident I can adapt it to the Fate system.
Let me know.
Lorgan: I'm certainly interested in giving Fate a try. I've been too busy to try GMing another game, but I could probably be a player. I'm not too familiar with 40K beyond a few basics, but I'd be willing to give it a whirl.
OK, Atlas has also replied to say tentative yes so I'm going to give it a go. I'll put up a quick write-up of the rules and chargen stuff and post the link here. It will probably be tomorrow.
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Lorgan: I'm certainly interested in giving Fate a try. I've been too busy to try GMing another game, but I could probably be a player. I'm not too familiar with 40K beyond a few basics, but I'd be willing to give it a whirl.
Most of what I know about 40K has come from playing the video games. If you haven't picked up Dawn of War I & II on Steam I highly recommend.
Gn Sarah, don't forget to mark this game as inactive.
I agree, the computer games are really very good.
Wastrel, is there room for one more? I don't know anything about the system and I haven't been too interested in learning something new, but after reading your description in the Discussion thread I am fascinated.
You're very welcome to join! I'm glad it was comprehensible; I had a slight fear that I was subjecting everyone reading it to sanity damage...
@Sarah, you're welcome too.
Gn Sarah, don't forget to mark this game as inactive.
And done! Sorry it ddint' go where we wanted it to :(