Help me with a fire kineticist / oracle

Hello,

Please bear in mind it's very much an optimization post and so the roleplaying aspects will be added later ^^

I'm about to start a new campaign (going from level 1 to 20) and I wanted to play a Fire Kineticist. I've already done it and it was loads of fun, so I wanted to resurrect my old build.

It's pretty basic: Elf Earth/Fire kineticist STR 16 DEX 12 CON 18 INT 10 WIS 12 CHA 10, with armor in earth and Flying flame, grabbing Thermal Nimbus and Fire Junction in order to be in the thick of things and swing a huge flaming sword while all opponents are writhing in my flames.

Ah, good times.

Anyway, I was really excited about it - until the DM told us that we could use Free Archetypes. And there the nightmare began. And that's where I need your help.

I really want to double down on the fire aspect, so I decided to go with fire oracle dedication. Incendiary aura first round and then thermal nimbus + impulses to set everything and everyone on fire.

BUT

Here's the headache.
- I need 14 in CHA to grab the oracle dedication
- Ideally, I would want to have STR 16 DEX 12 CON 18 INT 8 or 10 WIS 10 or 8 CHA 14 at character creation to get both armor in earth for AC and the required CHA
- There are no ancestries that make it possible, except for Azarketi (which are kind of weird thematically and weak mechanically)
- Even if it were possible, not being an elf means I'm stuck with a 20 feet move while sporting armor in earth (though that can be fixed at level 3 with fleet, but still a bit annoying)
- Our games are pretty deadly so I cannot waltz into the frontline without some kind of AC/mitigation
- I want this build to be online quickly, because we are playing the whole campaign and I don't want to wait a whole year or more to do my things, so waiting until level 8 to get oracle dedication is a no-no.

The only thing I've found so far is to go Wood/Fire instead of Earth/Fire, be a catfolk and get STR 14 DEX 14 CON 18 INT 10 WIS 8 CHA 14 with hardwood armor. This gives me 1 less AC than armor in earth, no bulwark and no armor specialization, but at least I have a maxxed out AC, some mitigation tools through wood, and can undertake oracle at level 2 to get online at level 4. I'm not overjoyed about the 8 WIS on a bad-WIS class, though.

Any other thoughts ? Something I might have missed ?
Thanks a lot ^^

First: Any ancestry can choose to take two free ability boosts instead of the "standard" boosts/penalty. You may have to "settle" for Str +3, Dex +1, Con +3, Int +0, Wis +0, Cha +2 however (if you don't like the catfolk version).

Second: A PF2e kineticist isn't really a melee tank. It's more of a (potentially) versatile blaster/control/support. Remember that impulses require a free hand, so a two-handed weapon is not a good idea.

Third: Instead of Flames mystery oracle (Cha caster, divine list), you might want to consider Flame order druid (Wis caster, primal list) for the free archetype (dwarf/ifrit with Str +3, Dex +1, Con +4, Int +0, Wis +2, Cha -1 might work for a kineticist with free archetype druid; minotaur could also work, gaining reach from being Large and a decent unarmed attack).

The only ability flaw you can really get away with taking is INT given how many ability scores you want to have at once, which is the real problem with what you're trying to do. That means you're looking at a pretty small list of things that really help you, but Yaksha, and Yaoguai are all giving you things you need for what you're trying to do. Those give a possible starting array of STR 3, DEX 1, CON 4, INT -1, WIS 0, CHA 2.

If you don't like those, just take the 2 ability boosts and no flaw alternate option that every ancestry has, and accept that you're going to not be able to get everything you want until level 5 when more boosts come online. That's the nature of low level play when you want to spread out this much. Or eat a -1 WIS, but I don't really think that's a good idea.

Also bear in mind that if you take Cursebound actions, the Flames curse cannot be prevented or mitigated by any means. Thermal Nimbus doesn't protect you from that damage. And remember that RAW you get to choose if you're in an emanation that is centered on you or not, so you want to exclude yourself from Incendiary Aura (otherwise that persistent damage sets you on fire).

First: Any ancestry can choose to take two free ability boosts instead of the "standard" boosts/penalty. You may have to "settle" for Str +3, Dex +1, Con +3, Int +0, Wis +0, Cha +2 however (if you don't like the catfolk version).

Second: A PF2e kineticist isn't really a melee tank. It's more of a (potentially) versatile blaster/control/support. Remember that impulses require a free hand, so a two-handed weapon is not a good idea.

Third: Instead of Flames mystery oracle (Cha caster, divine list), you might want to consider Flame order druid (Wis caster, primal list) for the free archetype (dwarf/ifrit with Str +3, Dex +1, Con +4, Int +0, Wis +2, Cha -1 might work for a kineticist with free archetype druid; minotaur could also work, gaining reach from being Large and a decent unarmed attack).

Thanks for taking the time to answer. It doesn't help me, though ^^

- I know ancestries can take two free ability boosts, but they cannot reach STR +3 DEX +1 CON +4 and CHA +2 at once. For that, I need an ancestry with 3 boosts and a penalty. As for reducing my CON, it's probably the last thing I should do since it governs everything, from my saves to my to-hit to (sometimes) my damage to my HP.

- As an earth/fire kineticist, I can tank just fine with the equivalent of plate armor (with specialization so some DR on top), same HP as a fighter, great DR/retaliation through spike skin and incentive to attack me. As a wood/earth kineticist, I believe I'm one of the best tanks in the game, period - or at least I was until guardian came, didn't try it so I cannot say. But that's neither here nor there, the point is that to make use of my aura I need to have my opponents in it, plus melee/thrown attacks deal more damage and thus, at least before level 20, it promotes a kind of in-your-face playstyle.

- The whole point of the exercise is to get the flame oracle focus spell (incendiary aura) that comboes exceedingly well with thermal nimbus and my fire abilities. Getting a druid dedication doesn't offer anything remotely comparable.

The only ability flaw you can really get away with taking is INT given how many ability scores you want to have at once, which is the real problem with what you're trying to do. That means you're looking at a pretty small list of things that really help you, but Yaksha, and Yaoguai are all giving you things you need for what you're trying to do. Those give a possible starting array of STR 3, DEX 1, CON 4, INT -1, WIS 0, CHA 2.

If you don't like those, just take the 2 ability boosts and no flaw alternate option that every ancestry has, and accept that you're going to not be able to get everything you want until level 5 when more boosts come online. That's the nature of low level play when you want to spread out this much. Or eat a -1 WIS, but I don't really think that's a good idea.

Also bear in mind that if you take Cursebound actions, the Flames curse cannot be prevented or mitigated by any means. Thermal Nimbus doesn't protect you from that damage. And remember that RAW you get to choose if you're in an emanation that is centered on you or not, so you want to exclude yourself from Incendiary Aura (otherwise that persistent damage sets you on fire).

This is extremely helpful, we don't have the Tian Xia book and I didn't see it on AoN, and it solves very elegantly my problems.

As for cursebound action, of course I won't take any of them, I'm only there for the aura and the added spellcasting ;)

Can you take a rare background like Amnesiac? That might help you get one more ability increase and a kind DM will allow you to spend it where you need it.

I'm doing a fire and metal kineticist with an oracle of fire build as well in a Blood Lords campaign. He's a skeleton. It's my Ghost Rider build. It's not purely optimal, but it is sure fun.

The incendiary aura with Thermal Nimbus is brutal. Massive passive damage to anything that burns.

Apart from the awesome theme, what does metal give you ?

I'm still torn myself between fire/earth and fire/wood.

In both cases, most of my damage will come from my fire aura and fire impulses, so the secondary element is more for defense and utility.

Fire/earth gives me:
- Armor in earth, so if I compare with wood armor, I get +1 AC, bulwark and DR 3 slashing
- Maybe lava leap, though I'm not a big fan
- Spike Skin
- Rattle the earth

Fire/wood gives me:
- Fresh Produce or dash of herbs for downtime reduction and emergencies
- Timber sentinel in a pinch
- Wooden Palissade as a nice wall
- I'm also a big fan of sanguivolent roots, especially in small areas

So basically earth/fire is more tanky and gets earthquake while wood/fire has some healing and utility.

Consider Wylderheart later if you can get access, Vicious Howl at 8 is totally nuts with fire kin because you deal so many separate instances of damage.

Metal gives you a very early, decent wall. Slightly better than Wooden Palisade imo as it also deals a bit of AoE and the height difference mostly won't matter as much. That's about it, however. I'd consider it only if you were gonna be mostly indoors.

Apart from the awesome theme, what does metal give you ?

I'm still torn myself between fire/earth and fire/wood.

In both cases, most of my damage will come from my fire aura and fire impulses, so the secondary element is more for defense and utility.

Fire/earth gives me:
- Armor in earth, so if I compare with wood armor, I get +1 AC, bulwark and DR 3 slashing
- Maybe lava leap, though I'm not a big fan
- Spike Skin
- Rattle the earth

Fire/wood gives me:
- Fresh Produce or dash of herbs for downtime reduction and emergencies
- Timber sentinel in a pinch
- Wooden Palissade as a nice wall
- I'm also a big fan of sanguivolent roots, especially in small areas

So basically earth/fire is more tanky and gets earthquake while wood/fire has some healing and utility.

It's mostly for the theme. I know I talk about optimization, but sometimes I make characters for the fun of it. Once you reach our level of experience, you can make almost anything work fairly well, especially in PF2.

One of the best abilities for metal is at higher level where you can pick up Ferrous Form at will. Acts like body armor and powerful resistance for a lot of stuff, but at the expense of not being healed.

You can also pick up metal and electricity immunity along with fire and cold from the fire line. So you end up at level 17 with immunity to fire, cold, electricity, and metal. That's a lot of AOE spells that can do nothing to you. Then toss on Ferrous Form and you become immune to void and positive along with poison and other conditions.

So at high level when I metal up the skeleton, he'll have a lot of hit points with physical damage resistance and immunity to a bunch of commonly used direct damage spells and attacks.