Alright I will be posting questions soon for y'all so we can start to do some world building stuff. Some will be clarifying, some will be questioning what you've already established and some will be much larger. The bottom line is that as before, don't feel like we have to take anything from Pathfinder lore at face value - this is our world to create as we see fit.
You can also start polishing crunch and pitch anything for third party or houserules that you haven't already!
We didn't really do any crunch since you said it was all up in the air until afterwards. About the only bit we had was up to 20RP for races.
So feel free to set the terms. I'm looking at mixing Vigilante and Shifter somehow so I wouldn't be adverse to gestalt, and Itzi is going for vigilante with guns - there's archetypes for it but being able to outright gestalt might help. :)
Gestalt would certainly be interesting - particularly with just two characters. It doesn't fix the action economy, but since I imagine this story will be designed for just two that shouldn't be a problem.
Oh yes, right, let's revisit this, then...
Yeah, since you're both planning on doing Vigilante anyway, let's go ahead and put Gestalt on the table. That'll give you some more options while keeping you both (fairly) close to the same power level. Otherwise....20 Point Buy, starting level 3, 3000gp to start. Background skills are in play, elephant in the room feat taxes are in play. And I don't care about alignment restrictions for classes, so throw those out the window.
Itzi, if you're looking to go Gunslinger, I'd recommend the Legendary Games version over the Pathfinder one. I can share the PDF so you can look through it in detail, but the gist is the chassis changes to be 3/4 BAB, d8 HD, 6+Int skills, and it gains (scaling) Gun Training at level 1st instead of 5th, and it has a ton more deeds and awesome archetypes. Totally not a requirement, but I personally like it a lot more so figured I'd share it as an option.
Alrighty then ...
Crunch, here I come. ;)
Edit: I just picked up that supplement, so I'll be going over it in a couple of hours. :)
Gonna be bad and say can we start at 4? That's the point I get wildshaping and all the fun that goes along with that. I can work without it but we wrote Ahreni being a shapeshifter into the background, so it would be nice to have it. :)
As I said, if not its no worry.
Vig//Shift - should be fun! :D
Sure, that works for me!
Yay! Happiness and shapeshifting! :)
Im on GMT, so Itzi and I cross over early afternoon my time/morning his (PST? Whatever west coast uses). Also means I'm heading to bed now so you won't see any more from me till tomorrow.
I'll start getting crunch together at work tomorrow.
A rough draft of my crunch is up. Feel free to look it over and point out mistakes (I'm sure they exist).
Some notes ...
I haven't chosen traits yet. Any suggestions, Ahreni?
I haven't purchased equipment yet either, are we going with standard WBL? Will I be able to upgrade the starting firearm to masterwork before beginning? Also, will there be any limitations on starting equipment other than cost?
I also need to fill out more of the fluff information.
Just a heads up to everyone. I'll be at Kublacon this coming weekend (Thursday through Monday). I'll have internet access, but I'm not sure how much free time I'll have to post. If I know me, I'll still try to get out at least a post a day if it's warranted, but ... *shrugs*.
Is it cheesy to suggest we call ourselves 'The Eyes' (I's) based on our names. Ah-ren-i and Di-ga-di? :)
I'll take a look later and see if I've got suggestions.
Looks like normal WBL based on what Yorick posted above, but that was before I got us bumped to 4th ;)
Im on GMT, so Itzi and I cross over early afternoon my time/morning his (PST? Whatever west coast uses). Also means I'm heading to bed now so you won't see any more from me till tomorrow.
Cool, good to know - I'm EST so I'm right smack in the middle of the two of you which ought to be perfect.
I haven't purchased equipment yet either, are we going with standard WBL? Will I be able to upgrade the starting firearm to masterwork before beginning? Also, will there be any limitations on starting equipment other than cost?
Looks like normal WBL based on what Yorick posted above, but that was before I got us bumped to 4th ;)
You can definitely upgrade the starting firearm. Cost is the only limitation on starting equipment, though as I said during recruitment, I also don't want crafting feats just because it gets silly with how much you can do.
I was going to say standard wealth by level - but I'm open to doing ABP and reducing it a bit if you both would rather that?
Just a heads up to everyone. I'll be at Kublacon this coming weekend (Thursday through Monday). I'll have internet access, but I'm not sure how much free time I'll have to post. If I know me, I'll still try to get out at least a post a day if it's warranted, but ... *shrugs*.
Cool, appreciate the head's up! I'm not imagining we'll start gameplay that soon, but I do hope to have my new laptop on Thursday and be able to start posing some questions for world building, so there ought to definitely be some things when you get back from the con!
I'm not sure about ABP - I like that you get room for all the fun and interesting items, but it doesn't translate so well with things like weapons...
I'll go with whatever Itzi prefers :D
WBL works for me.
And how about 'The Eyes of Light'?
Yorick, I get what you're saying about crafting feats. Would it be too much to eventually consider 'Craft Magic Arms and Armor' for Digadi, considering he's a swordsmith?
If it's still a no, no worries. :)
CMAandA shouldn't be too bad because Ahreni will never use it (unless Digadi gets up to making Wild armour) so it won't break the game too badly - certainly not the way it would in a party of 4+.
How do we want to handle Aasimar SLA replacements? I'm probably going to rebuild her race a bit and was considering just dropping it all-together, but that depends a bit on how I'd be rolling (since some of the table is REALLY good).
@Digadi - nothing specific I can think of for traits. Save boosters maybe? Ahreni will be taking 'Innocent' for one of hers, so maybe something that helps with SM?
Alright, yeah, Craft Magical Arms & Armour is fine.
How do we want to handle Aasimar SLA replacements? I'm probably going to rebuild her race a bit and was considering just dropping it all-together, but that depends a bit on how I'd be rolling (since some of the table is REALLY good).
Since the race builder is on the table anyway, I'd say you can just choose what you want off the Aasimar table if you're going with one of those.
There we go, crunch is done for me.
@Digadi: I'm afraid I picked a racial trait and then 'Resiliant' (+1 fort) and Survivor (+1 init/SM) aiming to show that she's tougher than she looks! Nothing much to help you there.
Upped Aasimar with +2 dodge (4RP) and +10ft base move (1RP) - a general theme of being quicker than normal mortals :)
Need to spend my 6000 - possibly on a way for us to talk while I'm wildshaped? Since I don't do weapons or armour let me know if you need some more money . ;)
Also - slightly cheekily took both Shifters Edge and Lethal Grace. I now add 1/2 my shifter level and 1/2 vig level to damage :D :D :D
Ok, mostly done. For traits, Digadi has Affable and Black Powder Fortune.
He's going for Firearm Striker, so once he fires off his initial wad (reloading? Who bothers with reloading?) he'll be stuck in with Ahreni, hitting with fists.
Gear breakdown:
Improved Digadi's starting pistol to masterwork (300 gp) and gave it a +1 enhancement bonus (2000 gp). I also added a musket at cost (750 gp).
Ammo for both is in the form of 60 basic alchemical cartridges at cost (72 gp). They decrease load time, but increase misfire chance by one. That's offset by Gun Training which decreases misfire chance by one, so it's a wash.
A cloak of resistance +1 (1000 gp) augments his defenses.
Three potions of cure light wounds (150 gp) and a wand of silence with 25 charges on it (2250 gp) round out his expensive stuff.
With a backpack and standard misc. non-magical gear, that puts him at about 6549 gp.
Um, Ahreni? You were mentioning something about having spare money? :) :)
Fluff says that Ahreni's money, some of it at least, is probably Digadi's to start with. She didn't get tossed out of heaven with a moneybag after all!
I'm going to grab an Am Mighty Fists +1 for 2k. Since Digagi needs some more that'll be all for me. I'm assuming we have some sort of home base and can purchase 'normal' things fairly easily. She's also able to shapeshift for 7hrs a day - so she won't be carrying lots of stuff around!
@Yorick: technically Bracers of Armor merge into my form when I shift, how concerned are you about that? In theory Digadi can put them on me afterwards so they still work...
Hmm... exotic saddle... :) If you want to buy one Digadi Ahreni can turn into a Large tiger - so you could actually ride her into battle. :D
So 2K for me. Say 1K to Digadi because he does the mundane shopping. Leaves me with 3k over - lots of cool items just out of budget, so I can live with that!
Hmm... exotic saddle... :) If you want to buy one Digadi Ahreni can turn into a Large tiger - so you could actually ride her into battle. :D
Ok, while I have no doubt that these two are going to get kinky (BTW what are your hard limits, Yorick? ;) ), I didn't realize it was going to begin so quickly.
Or is that just me?
So 2K for me. Say 1K to Digadi because he does the mundane shopping. Leaves me with 3k over - lots of cool items just out of budget, so I can live with that!
Cool. That will leave me with a little for some other potions and/or minor things.
I'm assuming we have some sort of home base and can purchase 'normal' things fairly easily.
Yeah, I would say that's a safe bet for sure.
@Yorick: technically Bracers of Armor merge into my form when I shift, how concerned are you about that? In theory Digadi can put them on me afterwards so they still work...
I'm good with them still working, I'll leave it up to you whether you want them to merge into your form, or be visible as bracers as though you're a maybe "owned" large tiger or whatever.
Hmm... exotic saddle... :) If you want to buy one Digadi Ahreni can turn into a Large tiger - so you could actually ride her into battle. :DOk, while I have no doubt that these two are going to get kinky (BTW what are your hard limits, Yorick? ;) ), I didn't realize it was going to begin so quickly.
Haha, I was thinking that same thing. Yeah I actually don't have any hard limits, but I'm very pro-consent in games so rest assured that I will do my best not to ever put your character in a position where they don't have a choice or anything like that. If there are any things you both would like to avoid, though, totally let me know. I'll also be taking cues from how your characters act as well for things like tone.
My laptop was supposed to arrive tonight, but didn't. It should be here tomorrow. I'll review crunch / backstory stuff so far and pose questions, and then get into other questions, probably over several posts through the next week. Enjoy the con in the meantime!
Both Niko and I feel the same way regarding consent. We've discussed limits in the past and are reasonably aware of each other's story boundaries.
~~~~~
I was looking through Ahreni's crunch and noticed that her claws count as magical. Ah.
My original thought was Digadi would be safe with DR 10 if she decided to get a little freaky. Yeah, not so much. ;)
That might work out for the better, though. It would help conceal that aspect of his nature from her if she accidentally claws him up in a moment of passion.
~~~~~
The con will be a lot of fun. Is it weird to say that despite having many Pathfinder games to join, I never play at conventions? I've watched many society games being played and there always seems to be very little actual role-playing going on. Maybe it's the nature of the beast. But for me, the story is the thing and con society games always seem to lack that.
*shrug*
I've always wanted to play a con game, but ever since I started doing PBP I've found I like it more for the amount of story that goes in. When I was GM-ing for my IRL group it just felt like it was always combat or people getting on each other's backs. These days I mostly play solo stuff with my wife so there's plenty of room for story stuff there.
And yeah - if Ahreni gets a bit too passionate then Digadi gets scars - sorry about that :P
re Saddles. It was a (semi) serious point. Next level I get another aspect and one option in the near future would be to become an owl, then it wouldn't take much to enable Digadi to ride on her and do fly-by strafing runs. So it's a viable combat tactic - you perv! :P
Yeah, con games are definitely not the same. Partially it's because of the time constraint, partially it's the number of players, and partially it's because this hobby tends to attract those of us that are really nerdy and not always the best socially (especially around new people).
I'm mostly into more narrative-focused games for that reason, like the PBTA games or Forged in the Dark games, because I want the mechanics to get out of the way so we can focus more on the story, and encourage more from the players (which is also what I'm going for with this game), but I still wish that in-person had the same possibility of weight that play by post does. I've seen some truly amazing characters and seen them grow and change and develop on here that my in-person games have never come close to.
A big problem is spotlight of course - the GM has to let everyone shine, which generally means letting no-one really shine. Just the way it is really. :)
@Yorick: have you ever read Sergei Lukyanenko's 'Night Watch' series? Its where I got the inspiration for the metaphysics of Good and Evil in our pitch. I'm happy to flesh it out a bit if that would help.
[On holiday from school for the next week so I'll have more time to do stuff like this for a little while!]
I haven't! But I'll check it out for sure.
i'm going to spend tonight reading back through everything you've both written so far and accumulate a bunch of questions for you, but if you have any additional things to share about the what you've envisioned for a world, I can factor that in ahead of time as well!
Actually, before I ask any wider questions, I'd like some more clarity around The Inevitable Incident. Here are some specific questions that I have around it, but please feel free to bring in other things that will help as well.
1. Digadi - you resent your grandfather pulling you into the war. He's on the side of The Order. So, did you fight for The Order's side? If so, what does it mean that your mother dedicated your life to the light?
2. The Inevitable itself that was killed, how big of a deal is that? What's their role in this world? Also, how did Digadi kill it? What was Ahreni's actual role and intent during this? Why did she claim responsibility? Why was killing it such a big deal for Digadi?
3. Ahreni refers to herself as trying to (still) be Digadi's guardian angel, despite her having fallen and being (somewhat?) to blame for what happened. Was she actually his guardian angel? How common is that? Etc.
I'll leave q1 to Digadi :)
2. Quite a big deal - Law is the arbiter between light and dark and even the most evil dark or most 'do-gooder' light wouldn't kill an inevitable if it told them to stop. It's one of the absolute laws - they are the umpires and if they intervene you should let them. (Obviously tricking the Inevitable Bureaucracy into assigning one to Digadi was quite a feat - but that's why he's the big bad!)
Ahreni knew/thought that it would kill Digadi because Outsider > mortal in her mind. So she willing broke the law of non-interference to fight the inevitable, assuming that Digadi would do the sensible thing and run away! When he didn't she claimed responsibility because him being accused would have meant summary execution. Mortals break the absolute laws they get dead - no questions asked, everyone (non-mortal) agrees. Outsiders break it they face a fate which could be worse than death (and Ahreni should have been killed, except for her friend on the council).
3. Yes she was actually his guardian angel, outsider with more power than him (at the time) whose job was to guard him against significant threats/machinations by the Order etc. Common - not hugely. Since Digadi is who he is I imagine the light took notice of his being dedicated to them and decided that he was worth an unusual level of protection. Since she isn't dead Ahreni still considers him her charge to look after - but the sensible part of her is aware that she's nowhere near as good at that as she was when she could fly, summon flaming swords etc.
------------------------
As I perceive it there are three major kinds of people/sentient beings.
Outsiders - light, dark and lawful in particular. Chaos - doesn't matter too much either way but probably works better without so law can stand as arbiter without a mirror of its own. They are literally of the Balance, they can't be swayed or change sides and their devotion is complete and perfect. They instinctively know and almost always obey the laws that preserve the Balance as a whole.
Inducted Mortals - will cover all divine spellcasters (right down to Paladins and Rangers), any arcane casters who cast planar stuff (so probably all of them barring maybe occultists) and other people with 'supernatural' abilities - like Shifters, but probably not Samurai and Fighters. They are aware of the existence of the light and dark, know the rules and that the factions exist and are aware roughly of their own alignment. Some are probably proactive (the Path and the Order), others just try to ignore it and get on with their lives but they all know of the Balance and have a role to play. Flipping one of them to light to dark or vice versa is significant to the Balance.
Normal people - non-magicals, standard NPC's etc. Blissfully unaware of the whole situation, only significant if flipped to light/dark in large numbers (i.e. inciting a riot which loots and lynches would be a dark shift because of the number of people involved - but the one man who talks them down would create a bigger light shift in response).
Most animals etc probably sit in the grey area between - true neutral, like they are generally. Significant ones will have their own leanings.
Sorry for the splurge - hope its helpful.
P.S. In my imagination at least no-one wants to destroy the balance. The Order would like a 70/30 or 80/20 tilt in their favour, and the Path would like a 70/30 their way, but no-one wants to go 100/0 because it wouldn't be good for anyone. The Balance itself or Law in its role as arbiter, would probably react very strongly if it was too unsettled (say more than 75/25 either way) so we're not talking 'apocalyptic end of the world' - no-one wants that, we're talking fine shades of grey and who gets the advantage in a chess match that spans centuries. :)
Digadi's grandfather had always intended for him to be instrumental in the increase of the Orders power and influence. Digadi wanted no part in it and refused outright. He'd seen too many of the things the Order was responsible for from an insider's point of view. He had wished to live a simple and satisfying life as a swordsmith like his father before him.
He had no knowledge that, while an infant, his mother had inacted an ancient ritual pledging him to the Path. Her request was so sincere that it had earned him a hidden guardian - Ahreni. What eventual effect that dedication might have isn't clear. The one person that might know the purpose of it - his mother - isn't really sane anymore. She wanders in places and times in her own mind and rarely recognizes people in this world anymore.
Digadi wasn't even aware of Ahreni's presence until the showdown with the inevitable. Not wanting this beautiful being that seemed to come to his aid out of nowhere to be harmed, he broke his own code and managed a perfectly timed shot with a musket and felled the threat.
Only later on, after the angelic being had left without another word, did he begin to suspect (incorrectly) that that was the sole purpose of her arrival. A well-planned Order plot to stain his soul with murder. He blames the mysterious woman for his self-perceived fall from grace. He still follows the way of the Path, but he now feels that he will never achieve the place fate had planned for him. His mother's sacrifice will be in vain.
Excellent! And this prompts many more questions.
Either/Both of you
1. You said the Inevitable Bureaucracy was tricked into assigning Law to go after Digadi, and that the Big Bad was behind it - is the big bad you're referring to Digadi's grandfather?
2. How many inevitables are there? Ballpark is fine, just trying to get a sense of how common they are.
3. With the factions vying for majority and not complete destruction of the balance, what are their end goals? By which I mean, what does each faction "get" with their authority? As an ideology thing, what kinds of things do The Order and The Path of Light believe? It seems like it isn't as much an Order vs Chaos thing and would lean more towards Good vs Evil, but where it's within a balance, I'm uncertain what kinds of things each is actually striving for. I do dig the idea of light shift / dark shift, and ordinary people being able to affect it, I'm just looking for more on what the implications are for either side having a strong majority.
4. Related: How much do ordinary people know about this? How common is it to have an interaction with an angel or demon? How "part of normal life" is this war for people who aren't affiliated with either The Path or The Order? Even for those within, how certain are they about their beliefs, not just in terms of faith but in terms of experience.
5. So far we've only talked about humans and outsiders. Are there other races you imagine populating this world? And again, don't feel obligated to stay tied to Pathfinder canon or even established creatures, we can always make up new things, subvert the common tropes, or maintain some of the classics.
Digadi
1. What's Digadi's grandfather's relationship like with Digadi's mother?
2. Digadi’s Father died from “Unexplained Violence”. Can you elaborate a bit on what you mean there? Is it unexplained in that Digadi was never told what happened, or unexplained like it was something bizarre like a cult ritual? Why does Digadi resent his father?
3. Digadi has an Infernal Taint that gives him magical resistance that you explain as being similar to Tieflings, though less “severe”. In this world, is it still a heritage thing? If the taint is something obvious to others, how do they feel about it? Is there any kind of stigma? I’m thinking of things like the racism against Tieflings. And how does it manifest for Digadi himself? Is it just the resistance or is there any visible tell-tale sign. Likewise, same manifestation question for his father. Also, do Tieflings still exist in this world, by which I mean, is there a sort of "sliding scale" of how "tainted" someone can be, and does it actually mean anything as far as like, how removed someone is from the original demon pact or whatever, or is it just chance?
4. Would Digadi have sort of lost his way with any murder, or is it specifically because it was an inevitable? Does the Path of the Light strive to not kill? Do they ever think it's sometimes necessary?
Ahreni
1. How common is being exiled from Heaven or Hell? And, are these other planes, and if so, are there even more planes beyond these three?
2. Do Outsiders die aside from being killed? Do they age? How old is Ahreni (ballpark is fine)?
3. You mentioned divine / occult spellcasters being Inducted mortals. Assuming that Divine magic comes directly from the relationships with Gods / Outsiders, where does other magic come from? Is it more like ancient tomes and rituals, is it ley lines in sacred locations, is it scientific and discernable, is it more using what's inside you, is it more like the Force, etc.
4. Related, how common is her newly found shapeshifting power?
5. What's the religion actually like as far as Gods go? Are there pantheons or single gods on each side, is it different for each, are there actually multiple religions?
Both
1. Yeah, Digadi's granddad. He used up a significant favour to make it happen.
2. Inevitables - probably less the angels and devils etc. They're the balancing force, not a major player in their own right. Maybe about 80% of either Light or Dark...
3. End goal... well the more the Balance moves then the more powerful that side becomes and the more they can reshape the world as they wish it. So if the Path end up very strong then society will be reshaped towards a crazy Utopia where everyone smiles all the time and loves everyone else etc because they gain power from positive emotions like love, happiness etc. Think Hermea (with all the associated wierdness). If the Order won you'd end up with a sort of Cheliax/Galt cross where everyone is looking out for themselves and its very survival of the fittest - of course the Path would be the fittest since all their power sources (misery, fear etc) would be present in abundance. The important thing is that either way they still want people around, so no apocalypses either way.
Within those broad churches you probably have zealots who want to completely wiped out the other side etc to the moderates who think Light and Dark need to get over themselves and just get along, but the leadership generally takes a more nuanced view and may well shut down their own side doing something too over the top.
A slight shift either way might do things like effect the weather - lots of sunshine when Light is up for example...
4. There's probably stories about it, likely couched in your classic mythological tropes but generally people don't have any idea beyond basic morals that 'Good' and 'Evil' are actually tangible forces in the world. Interaction with outsiders is probably much like it is in our world - people may claim to have had them, but how easily they are believed would vary a lot. For those who have been inducted they'll be absolutely certain. I imagine being inducted means being exposed to your particular force somehow - that would be how you are 'marked' by that power - so no way of doubting after that. Of course there would be people who have powers but aren't inducted - they wouldnt be sure at all. May even not know.
5. I'm fine with whatever. The source material is set on earth, so humans only but I'd say core races and maybe the plane touched (Aasimar, Tieflings and possibly Aphorites) races. Personally I can live without gnomes and dwarves so I'd happily just have Humans, Elves, Half Elves and Halflings but hey. :)
Ahreni:
1. Not common at all. Probably not unheard of but rare in the extreme. Vorellion is a fairly significant player in Heaven but a major part of his pitch to save Ahreni's life was that being banished would be more of a punishment than simply dying. I imagine there must be precedent but its probably not done often since, for outsiders, it would be worse than death and therefore only applicable for exceptionally grave crimes.
2. Age in-so-far as time passes for them and they gain experience etc, but no they don't age. When they die they return to the essence of their alignment and may/may not be reborn again in the future (pretty standard to Golarion cannon there - easiest that way I think :))
3. No idea. :) Guess it depends what world we want. Arcane/Occult magics could easily be 'legacy forces' left over from unidentified earlier ages which can be tapped if you know how. Or its all just flavours of divine magic? Could be the Force... Very open to other thoughts here...
4. I'd say Shapeshifting is a specific subset of magic, so probably uncommon but not unknown. A scholar might know of some references to it and maybe a famous shifter. Normal people might have a folk story or two, but seeing someone actually shifting would be a "WTF!" moment.
5. I'd imagine very broad church. Probably any kind of religion you can imagine, but since almost all religions have a light/dark duopoly in there somewhere its fundamentally all window dressing/metaphors for the actually fundamental truth of Light/Dark. Jesus would, for example, likely have been a powerful Path Inducted, trying to inspire people to live better lives, who was effectively deified after-death. Also very open to other thoughts here. :)
3. End goal... well the more the Balance moves then the more powerful that side becomes and the more they can reshape the world as they wish it. So if the Path end up very strong then society will be reshaped towards a crazy Utopia where everyone smiles all the time and loves everyone else etc because they gain power from positive emotions like love, happiness etc. Think Hermea (with all the associated wierdness). If the Order won you'd end up with a sort of Cheliax/Galt cross where everyone is looking out for themselves and its very survival of the fittest - of course the Path would be the fittest since all their power sources (misery, fear etc) would be present in abundance. The important thing is that either way they still want people around, so no apocalypses either way.
Ahhh okay.
So I was imagining that Law vs Chaos didn't work because The Order still abide by the rules and neither side wants total domination, but perhaps the way to look at it is more about how Heaven/Hell would teach/guide humanity. With it swinging more towards the Order, it's very much (as you said) survival of the fittest, very based in conflict with those around you, very competitive, while with more of The Path in abundance, it's more about personal study and betterment and sort of "community".
That makes it, rather than Good v Evil or even Law v Chaos, closer to "Internal Struggle vs External Struggle", in a way that I think would be pretty interesting? It would mean that while both sides could have zealots, both sides could have questionable motives, that neither side would be inherently "wrong" or evil, which leaves a lot of wiggle room for interesting characters on either side of the conflict.
As far as you two go:
- Digadi conflict begins with him blaming external factors (the Outsider, his grandfather), and having committed an act that he perceives to be more fitting of someone within The Order. Yet his struggle can also be seen to embody that of someone on The Path - learning to grow and atone and come to terms with what he's done. Which side he ends up on depends entirely on the actions he takes, so Free Will is still very much in play.
- Ahreni was exiled for a perceived act of selfishness. Heaven says, "okay, if you want to see what those kinds of actions get you, here, go live like that" And whether she recognises it or treats it that way, it's possible that it is a test, to see what she will actually come to value. And as with Digadi, she could end up allying herself with either side, depending entirely on her journey and how she reacts to what happens.
In either case, both characters would find themselves in those kind of moral situations. The quintessential example that I always cite is, you know, the Bible says "thou shalt not steal", but what do you do when someone dies if you don't? How you weigh those kinds of decisions is something that I'd be super interested in.
I don't know - how does that sound to you both?
I'll circle back around to the magic stuff later because I have Ideas.
You've summarised Ahreni's situation well. The big thing for her is that she is now an unaligned soul - so she could go Light or Dark equally - but since she's still a Light outsider (more or less) she represents a huge opportunity for the dark to actually shift the unshiftable.
The importance of those moral decisions is a big part of this for me, what do Digadi and Ahreni think is right (especially given that they fight crime together)? What is too far? Is it more for one of them than the other? How do they compromise over such things? All excellent questions.
I suggest keeping track of alignment quite tightly - we almost need points or something for each decision. :D
Answers to Digadi's questions:
1) Maionarre is estranged from his daughter. He had planned for her to follow in his footsteps, but she chose the path of a wife and a mother over that of power. He was partially consoled at the idea of a grandson to take her place in the plan. Now doubly denied, he resents her even more.
2) Digadi doesn't know exactly how his father died. Simply the fact that the body wasn't viewable told him all he needed to know. He didn't resent him, he just didn't want to tread the path of swordmaker - as his father was before him. It's now a compromise - he spends a small amount of time working on weapons for the social elite to brag about and the rest of his time working on guns.
3) His heritage is not readily apparent. Having mixed blood would be a heavy social stigma and he avoids putting himself in a position where it would be demonstrated. I imagine that Tieflings do exist, but they would be reflective of a much more recent crossbreeding. Digadi doesn't remember his father having any outward sign of tainted blood so he's not sure how far back the mixing took place.
4) Any murder would have produced the sense of failure. The fact that it was an inevitable - a physical agent of planer balance - was just the cherry on top. Followers of the Path do kill when necessary, but Digadi was holding himself above the conflict. Now that he has taken a life he feels as if a big hole has been punched through his principles.
Talking about alignment ...
Has anyone ever played any of the games base on the Basic Role Playing rules system? It's a classless percentage based skill system. Everything's a skill and every time you succeed at most skills there's a chance that they'll increase at the end of the adventure.
There's a subsystem that even incorporates group standings into it.
As an example:
(SomeCity)'s Thieves Guild: 35%
(OtherCity)'s dock workers: 12%
There's no provision for alignment within the rules structure, but it easily fits into the skill system:
Good 17%
Evil 44%
Law 63%
Chaos 94%
Every time you engage in an action that clearly fits one (or two) of the categories, there's a chance you'll increase in that category. Your standing on the traditional alignment graph is easily determined by the relative values of the two opposing categories.
Nice idea. That might be something we could use. :)
Expounding on the alignment idea, the chance you have to increase is inverse to what your current standing/skill level is.
Example:
Law 18% gives an 82% chance to increase a couple of percentage points.
Law 82% gives an 18% chance to increase.
So, as you can see, the higher you get, the harder it is to improve.
That's the basis of it.
BRP is a great system for certain types of games. It's the core system in the original Runequest game as well as Call of Chthulhu.
No reason we can't leverage that part of it for tracking alignment and perhaps group affiliations.
You've summarised Ahreni's situation well. The big thing for her is that she is now an unaligned soul - so she could go Light or Dark equally - but since she's still a Light outsider (more or less) she represents a huge opportunity for the dark to actually shift the unshiftable.
She's a big get because of what you mentioned before, yeah? The idea of being able to influence a lot of people and events, and especially with being inducted herself. To build on your example from before, about the man who talks down the mob being bigger than the mob itself, she's potentially someone who could incite a mob. Plus potentially being able to sway other Inducted.
He'd seen too many of the things the Order was responsible for from an insider's point of view. He had wished to live a simple and satisfying life as a swordsmith like his father before him.
2)He didn't resent him, he just didn't want to tread the path of swordmaker - as his father was before him. It's now a compromise - he spends a small amount of time working on weapons for the social elite to brag about and the rest of his time working on guns.
I'm a bit confused, because these two statements seem to be in opposition with each other.
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I really dig that idea for alignment with the percentages. It also feels like it'll be useful for percentile checks of "How likely is x character to be influenced to do y?" for things that happen behind the scenes.
I'm interested in incorporating something similar. There's also a (relatively) new video game called Vampyr that has you as a vampire / physician who is capable of saving or condemning different districts based on your actions. The game itself falls short in some areas, but I like that premise, and I'll probably break our city down into districts and give them both Order and Path influence and important players. Sort of like the RPG Blades in the Dark, both in terms of how it handles the districts as well as the faction game. I'll need to figure out starting points for sure, but I think there's some really good stuff here.
Also, the Batman comic run "No Man's Land" does this thing where an earthquake separates Gotham from the mainland and while Bruce Wayne is off trying to get congress to send more help, Batman is nowhere to be seen, and with criminals having broken out of Arkham during the earthquake (obviously), various gangs pop up to divide up the city - some run by villains, some by heroes, some by bystanders, and even gotham pd is little more than an organised gang. It's a lot of fun.
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So here's what I had in mind for magic, which sort of unifies how it works but still gives us a lot of options.
The Outsiders are from another plane / dimension / whatever, one that is made up of pure energy. Even here in our world, they may also be mostly or entirely energy, which is part of what makes them difficult to kill, and also separates them somewhat from humanity. I think it's important to stress that these angels / demons are not themselves "human". Whether their natural form is even humanoid or that's something they put on for our benefit can even be subject to debate - it could give us cool ways to have Outsiders look monstrous even if such creatures / races don't otherwise exist.
All magic works by tapping into that realm's energy. There are areas where the walls between worlds are thinner, where Outsiders can pass in and out, which gives us some ley line magic and places of power. For Divine Spellcasters, when they pray, they are infused with some energy by an Outsider who takes from themselves, giving the caster a small pool that they can draw from safely (This same method also works for those with dark pacts like Witches/Warlocks). Those spellcasters who use grimoires are making use of ancient rituals that tear (hopefully temporary!) holes in reality to siphon magic through. And those who study the dangerous sciences (alchemists / investigators) have discovered ways to "bottle" this energy.
I also like the idea that shifters are rare and that no one is really sure where their magic comes from, and that it doesn't necessarily seem to fit the established methods. It gives some more mystery to Ahreni's power, and there are a lot of interesting ways we could take it as it evolves. But the idea that I want to put forward is that this is "somewhat" low-magic and more than that, there are dangers and consequences with using magic, some of which may not even be obvious or immediate.
But I am happy to do something else if you've got something else in mind!
He'd seen too many of the things the Order was responsible for from an insider's point of view. He had wished to live a simple and satisfying life as a swordsmith like his father before him.2)He didn't resent him, he just didn't want to tread the path of swordmaker - as his father was before him. It's now a compromise - he spends a small amount of time working on weapons for the social elite to brag about and the rest of his time working on guns.I'm a bit confused, because these two statements seem to be in opposition with each other.
How dare you point out contradictions in what I wrote. ;)
Ummm... that's uh ... That's clearly not a contradiction because ... uh ...
How about he wanted the simple life of a craftsman like his father, but not actually swordsmithing. Yeah, that's what I meant. See? Not an issue. You just didn't read it right. :)
Question for Ahreni; Has Digadi actually seen her shift, does he just know she can do it without having seen it, or will it be a complete surprise to him? ;)
@Yorick: really liking these concepts! Let's go for it - we're both non-magical (more or less) so a low magic world in general isn't going to be a big problem. The energy realms is good too.
Question: Is it one energy which everyone taps into, or is it two (or more) different kinds? Shades of universal energy could be interesting and would help to maintain the idea of there being a Balance too.
@Digadi: She only got full shifting once we hit level 4, so it depends how long we've been there. If its a while then yes, if we recently 'levelled up!' then maybe not.
How about he wanted the simple life of a craftsman like his father, but not actually swordsmithing. Yeah, that's what I meant. See? Not an issue. You just didn't read it right. :)
Haha, okay, cool
Question: Is it one energy which everyone taps into, or is it two (or more) different kinds? Shades of universal energy could be interesting and would help to maintain the idea of there being a Balance too.
Oooh, good question. Yeah, let's go with shades.
@Digadi: She only got full shifting once we hit level 4, so it depends how long we've been there. If its a while then yes, if we recently 'levelled up!' then maybe not.
Since we're starting at 4 you can also fluff if if you want to that she has "always" had it.
Will be posting what I expect to be the last set of questions tonight, and then I think we can get started! I'm probably going to pillage some stuff from Blades in the Dark for the city (in addition to some standard Korvosa stuff), but if you have any ideas on specifics, please do share them!
And really quickly before then, I'd like you both to come up with up to five more NPCs each (at least 2). They don't need to be anyone important or necessarily significant, and they also don't need to be anyone that your characters already know, just some more bodies to help flesh out the city a bit.
Bernadette - local baker who makes excellent pastries. Ahreni has bad cravings for chocolatey pastry goodness now thanks to her!
Mr Ferdinand Cole - local busybody who takes it on himself to 'ensure proper order in the streets of our community' (aka. the three blocks or so around his home). He takes a level of personal offence at Ahreni's general cluelessness and often attempts to 'educate' her on 'proper' behaviour. He's annoying.
Jeremy, but you can call me Jim! - Local lad with fast feet and a faster tongue. Always happy to run errands, pass messages, anything to earn a few coins. Doesn't tend to explain what he needs them for. Suspects that Ahreni is more than she seems.
Sonaya - local elf who runs a menagerie/pet shop. Ahreni really likes her shop and goes in to pet the animals and chat with Sonaya about the best way to brush cat's fur and other important details!
Eliza - daughter of local scribes, Eliza is something of a romantic and wanders the city in search of stories to record - preferably love stories.
Fanchelle Morg - the avuncular man who supplies Digadi (as well as the local blacksmiths) with all his raw steel. He's quite proud of the fact that he can proclaim to be the supplier of steel for all of Duran's Blades.
'Mama' Trundle - An elderly half-orc that owns the tenement that Digadi rents a flat in. She's in her seventh or eighth decade and everyone calls her 'Mama'. A brusque and straightforward woman that refuses to deal with deceptive people.
Walter Widard - a local Lothario who has noticed Ahreni around the neighborhood and has now set his sights on her as his newest conquest. A handsome but thoroughly revolting man. ;)
Justine Sallay - a local priestess of Shelyn (or whomever fills her domain in this story). She draw, paints, and expounds upon the virtues of the various kinds of love. She's a heavy-set woman in her middle age and is happy to give a hug to any that may need it (whether they ask or not).
Walter is going to get a horrible shock at some point! :D
Perfect!
I'm going to be unexpectedly traveling for work this weekend into next week, so I'm not sure what my availability will be like, but in the meanwhile I'm reading up on Korvosa to get a better sense of building this city out.
Do y'all have a name you'd like to use for the city?
Also, what's the technology level like? Digadi uses a gun, obviously, but how common is that? Is there like, magitech electricity?
Personally I'm not a fan of that sort of thing - I can deal with guns but I tend to prefer them being the higher end of the tech-sphere. I'd suggest that we're playing in a relatively low magic world where people are just about starting to turn on to technology as an option. Say 17th century earth - guns are around, but serious manufacturing and so forth isn't a thing yet.
That work for people, or do you want to go full Steampunk on this Digadi?
That works for me, Ahreni. As much as I do enjoy the steam punk genre, I don't think that's what fits this story.
As far as a name for the city, how about this ... the original settlers were drawn to the stretches of black sand around the mouth of the main river and so began referring to their little abode as Port de Sable Noir. It's still referred to by that name on official documents and records, but everyone just calls it Sable Noir.
And no, I don't speak a lick of french.
Black Black? I don't speak French either but that's what I make it... :)