Hideouts & Hoodlums: Justice Society of America

Game Master Scottenkainen

Hi all,

I am looking for at least four players interested in playing Hideouts & Hoodlums here. For those who don't know, H&H is a retroclone game that simulates a pretty specific time known as the Golden Age of Comics. You're probably familiar with at least some superheroes who debuted back then -- Superman, Batman, Captain America...

I want to start a campaign in May 1941, using established comic book characters who had already been published by that cover date. I'll help build the stats for any Hero someone wants to play. You are not limited to superheroes -- there were a great many fighters and magic-users published back then too. Characters from comic strips or the pulps that were reprinted in comic book form are also acceptable. Character classes from the supplements, the newsletter, and including the yet-unpublished Supplement III are all optional, so Heroes can be mysterymen, paragons, speedsters, explorers, cowboys, or scientists too.

To read up on H&H, go here - https://sites.google.com/site/hideoutsandhoodlums/. If you need help researching characters, ask here; there are too many sites out there to start recommending already.

~Scott/Editor

What's it a clone of?

I'm willing to try this. I don't have access to the books, but I'd love to support other systems here. I'd be interested in playing the Sandman (Wesley Dodds), who I guess would be a mystery man. I just want to run around with a gas mask and sleeping gun. I don't need the prophetic dreams that were later attached to the character. I'd also consider playing Dr. Fate if you are interested in having some magic in the game. I guess I just like serious face masks.

H&H is built on Swords & Wizardry, which is itself a retroclone of the OD&D, 1974 rules. Various versions of S&W include more or less from the supplements that followed.

I'd be happy to have the Sandman played. Will look into statting him shortly while we wait for more players.

As to what I'll be looking for in terms of posts...I don't want to set a minimum number of posts per week, as it really depends on what kind of posts you contribute. It's important to keep momentum going in a campaign, but one long post once per week could hold more intentions than one line of dialogue posted daily.

~Scott/Editor

I've worked out that the Sandman would be an 8th level Mysteryman by May 1941. This works out extra well because the date I chose is still 7 months before Sandman changes his costume and ditches the unique mask.

~Scott/Editor

Count me in! Let me do a little research and I'll get back to you with a superhero character I'd like to play.

I'll go with the Flash (Jay Garrick)... Speedster class I'd assume?

I'll go with the Flash (Jay Garrick)... Speedster class I'd assume?

You assume correctly! Wow, my first chance to playtest the Speedster class finally.

Now we need at least two more players! Though, with six more, we could have the entire JSA...

~Scott/Editor

I am intrigued by this game. Do you still have room?

I'd like to play Hour-Man if you still have room.

Yes, I have room, you're both in, and I just met my player quota to get started! Hour-Man approved. His class would be Superhero. I need to start working on stats faster...

~Scott/Editor

After doing some digging I'd be interested in playing either Dr. Fate or The Spectre. But I think Dr. Fate might be a little easier being as the Spectre's powers weren't really established until after the 40's and even then they've been really vague and variable as to what he can do.

Okay, we're definitely playing a Justice Society of America campaign!

We're going to start here on the Paizo boards at the beginning of May. In the next three weeks, everyone has time to study up on their characters and we will be hashing out stats. I can tell you right now that the Flash is a 6th-level Speedster (think monk), Hourman is a 7th-level Superhero (think cleric, sort of), and Sandman is an 8th-level Mysteryman (think thief). Need to think about Dr. Fate's level still (obviously, though, think magic-user).

How much 1940s All-Star Comics has everyone read? Can we hew closely to the original stories, or does everyone know them too well?

~Scott/Editor

I don't really know much of anything about the storylines. Nor do I have direct access to the comics. I can try to do some digging on the internets and see if I can find them to bone up on the material. Otherwise I really only have what wikipedia and other sites tell me.

I started reading comics in the '70s, so I know about the Justice Society but I wouldn't recognize any of the storylines.

I am still tinkering with levels -- I want to nudge the Flash up to 7th level and am thinking of having Dr. Fate start as a 10th level Magic-User.

Here is partial stats for Sandman:
Name: Sandman (Wesley Dodds) Class: Mysteryman Race: Human
Strength: 15 (+1 dmg in melee) Intelligence: 18 Wisdom: 16 Constitution: 17 (+1 hp/HD)
Dexterity: 18 (+1 to hit at range, -4 to be hit) Charisma: 14 (5 SCM, +1 loyalty)
Level: 8 Experience Points: 75,000 Alignment: Neutral
Hit Points: 35 Armor Class: 5 or 3 Move: 60 ft.
Class Abilities: Climb (11 in 12), intimidate (force morale save 1/hr), notice things (2 in 4), +3 signature move (+3 to dmg when punching), invisibility (2 in 4), track (10 in 12), pilfer (2 in 4); law enforcement reaction never better than neutral
Race Abilities: Bonus to notice things (increased to 6 in 10), -2 to be hit in dim light
Saves: vs. missiles – 5, vs. poison – 5, vs. plot – 6, vs. science – 6, vs. magic - 7

I know virtually nothing about superheroes (past or present) beyond the more common names, so re-using plotlines would be fine by me. All I know about the Flash is what I read on wikipedia :D.

Name: Flash (Jay Garrick) Class: Speedster (Quick) Race: Human
Strength: 16 (+1 to hit in melee) Intelligence: 15 Wisdom: 16 Constitution: 18 (+1 hp/HD)
Dexterity: 18 (+1 to hit at range, -4 to be hit) Charisma: 14 (5 SCM, +1 loyalty)
Level: 7 Experience Points: 74,000 Alignment: Lawful
Hit Points: 37 Armor Class: 2 or 0 Move: 840 ft.
Class Abilities: Invisibility (2 in 4), takes no dmg instead of ½-dmg when saves, save vs. missiles allows missiles to be caught in mid-air, surprise 7 in 10, 3 notice things checks/turn, Mirror Image (like spell) 1/day, Gust of Wind (like power) 1/day, run underwater at same speed as on land, base AC of 6, 2 attacks/turn for 1d12+1 dmg; cannot use pills or potions
Race Abilities: Notice things (2 in 6), -2 to be hit in dim light
Saves: vs. missiles – 4, vs. poison – 6, vs. plot – 7, vs. science – 7, vs. magic – 8

Nothing posted so far is set in stone; I'm still tinkering with Ability Scores, for instance.

Here's Hourman so far:
Name: Hourman (Rex Tyler) Class: Superhero (Mighty Man) Race: Human
Strength: 17 (+1 to hit in melee) Intelligence: 16 Wisdom: 14 Constitution: 16 (+1 hp/HD)
Dexterity: 15 (+1 to hit at range, -1 to be hit) Charisma: 12 (4 SCM)
Level: 7 Experience Points: 72,000 Alignment: Lawful
Hit Points: 50 Armor Class: 8 or 6 or 4 Move: 60 ft.
Class Abilities: Wrecking things (3d6 vs. doors – D, vs. chains, generators, robots – W, vs. cars – 4, vs. trucks – 7, vs. tanks – 10, vs. battleships – 13, vs. dams – 15), powers (per day – 2 1st, 2nd, 3rd;1 4th, 5th), true strength of 31 (+2 to dmg, lift 1 ton w/out power use), costume armor (base AC 7 vs. 6 HD or less if save vs. plot failed, otherwise base AC 9)
Race Abilities: Notice things (2 in 6), -2 to be hit in dim light
Saves: vs. missiles – 6, vs. poison – 6, vs. magic – 7, vs. science – 7, vs. plot – 8

Most of my golden age comics is refracted through more modern comics. I've read some of the Sandman Mystery Theater comics, but don't remember them at all. I read all of James Robinson's Starman, a lot the JSA comic when Geoff Johns was writing it. I think I read a few All-Star Squadron comics by Roy Thomas when I was really young. Beyond the stuff in Starman, I don't know much. I assume that Sandman started off as a Shadow knockoff. I just liked the mask.

>I assume that Sandman started off as a Shadow knockoff.

Close enough.

Here is a first try at statting Dr. Fate:
Name: Dr. Fate (Kent Nelson) Class: Magic-User (Full Wizard) Race: Human
Strength: 14 Intelligence: 18 Wisdom: 15 Constitution: 16 (+1 hp/HD) Dexterity: 14
Charisma: 13 (5 SCM, +1 loyalty)
Level: 10 Experience Points: 640,000 Alignment: Neutral
Hit Points: 45 Armor Class: 9 or 7 Move: 60 ft.
Class Abilities: Counterspell (2 in 6 vs. lvl 9 or lower), spells (4 1st, 2nd; 3 3rd; 2 4th, 5th)
Race Abilities: Notice things (2 in 6), -2 to be hit in dim light
Saves: vs. poison -- 4, vs. magic – 4, vs. missiles – 5, vs. plot – 5, vs. science – 6

IMPORTANT NOTE FOR LATECOMERS: Just because the first four characters claimed are all JSA members does not mean anyone new coming in needs to play an established JSA member, or even a DC comics character. We can mix things up as much as we want (though I will probably still be having all played Heroes become members of the Justice Society of America).

~Scott/Editor

SCMs (Supporting Cast Members):
Sandman – Dian Belmont (girlfriend since 2/40 and back-up Sandman since 11/40), D.A. Belmont (Dian’s father and NY District Attorney)
Flash – Joan Williams (girlfriend since college and partner since 2/40), Major Williams (Joan’s father, retired Army major)
Hourman – Mr. Bannerman (owner of Bannerman Pharmaceuticals and Hourman’s boss), Jimmy Martin (kid sidekick and President of the Minute Men of America club since 8/40), Regina Bannerman (Mr. Bannerman’s niece and romantic interest for Hourman since 8/40), Mrs. Martin (Jimmy’s mother), Thorndyke (newsie and Minute Man since 10/40); nemesis: Dr. Snegg (since 6/40)
Dr. Fate – Inza Cramer (confidant since 5/40 and girlfriend since 4/41); nemesis: Wotan (since 5/40)

When are we planning on starting? And should we bone up on the comics to know the source material better?

I would always encourage people to read more comic books. I will add the caveat that this is going to be retcon-free, so reading titles written after 1941, like All-Star Squadron or JSA, might mess you up more than help.

I was going to start the campaign in two and a half weeks, at the start of May. However, if we are done and ready sooner than that, and I have the time for an early start, we may.

A few more notes...Hourman's powers are going to be dependent on him taking his Miraclo pills, just like in the comics. However, we're not going to change the duration of powers and saw they each last for an hour. Rather, if a power's duration ends earlier than an hour, it will be because Hourman had taken his pill earlier in the day and it just wears off "now". Also, Hourman starts out with a large Supporting Cast. Unless I seriously bump up his CHA (which I wasn't planning on doing), he's already maxed out on cast members. Now, he can add more Supporting Cast Members later, but will have to ditch some of his old ones to free up space.

Dr. Fate may have been born in the 17th century. Apparently, some comments in the earlier comic books support that, but have been ruled out by later retcons that we're ignoring here. So it's up to you.

This would be a good time to be asking me any questions people have about how H&H works...

Eventually, you're going to have to buy equipment -- stuff like cars, homes, etc. You can get as specific or as general as you want. I'm not going to make you inventory your entire wardrobe down to your socks.

~Scott/Editor

Do you know of anywhere I could read up more about Jay Garrick? I have tried a couple of Public Domain Comics websites, but couldn't find any "Flash Comics". My local library system doesn't have a copy of "The Golden Age Flash Archives" books :(. Other than that I've managed to pick up a few bits of minor info from wiki-type websites but nothing in much detail.

None of your characters would be on public domain websites, as they are still property of DC Comics. There is my review of the Golden Age Flash Archives vol. 1 you can read in The Trophy Case newsletter issues 1 and 2, but beyond that, your best bet is fanfiction. Or, none of you need worry too much about adhering to established characterizations. Take these four anywhere you want to go!

So...no rules questions? No one is buying equipment? How about picking out spells and powers? Anyone need help with any of that...?

~Scott/Editor

If I remember correctly, the Sandman had some nifty guns, such as one that sprayed sleeping gas. How do I go about getting that? Also, what do we do with the supporting cast members? In my mind Dian Belmont is a bit like Nora Charles in the Thin Man, endlessly interested in Wesley's life as the Sandman, while Wesley disapproves of that interest. I don't really know what the old stories say about their relationship. Based on what I can find, Sandman stories are so good until he changes his costume and Simon and Kirby become the creative team on the book (shocking that those two would improve the quality of the comic, huh?)

Kipper, there is an article on the Flash that appears pretty comprehensive here. I don't know if you already found that or if it helps at all.

Kipper, there is an article on the Flash that appears pretty comprehensive here. I don't know if you already found that or if it helps at all.

Thanks, no I hadn't seen that one yet. I'll give it a readover.

There is my review of the Golden Age Flash Archives vol. 1 you can read in The Trophy Case newsletter issues 1 and 2

RIght, I had forgotten about that. I'll do that.

So...no rules questions? No one is buying equipment? How about picking out spells and powers? Anyone need help with any of that...?

Did you want to assign us $$ to buy stuff with, or should we just get whatever we feel is appropriate for gear/housing/cars (within reason of course! :D). Would you like us to post character sheets here to this thread?

As a Golden Age Fan I just want to say I'll be following this with interest. Unfortunately I'm way too involved with other games to take part.

Lovely and Kipper, you've got two options for buying equipment. One is to pick out what you'd like your Hero to have -- either from H&H, comic books, or online sources about what was available in 1940 -- and I'll approve or disapprove the list afterward. The other is to take $12,000 now and spend it on the starting equipment and trophy lists from the H&H books. $12,000 will get you a lot of low-level trophies or up to two mid-level trophies. Yes, Lovely, a sleeping gas gun is on the trophy lists. Kipper, you can post your lists when you're done and I'll make final tweaks on stats.

Wellard, we'd love to have you lurk!

Madclaw and Normanak, you two still around? It's getting close...

~Scott/Editor

Madclaw and Normanak, you two still around? It's getting close...

~Scott/Editor

I'm still here! I'll start checking the equipment lists.

>Also, what do we do with the supporting cast members?

Lovely, your SCMs are the equivalent of your henchmen in D&D. You can write their dialogue and actions (I still have veto power, but you have more say over their actions than other non-Hero characters). You can always count on them being available to help you out (at least until they miss a morale save). How much you choose to use your SCMs is entirely up to you.

Also, it's worth pointing out that recruiting SCMs is worth XP, so from a meta-gaming standpoint it would pay to fill your SCM slots and keep replacing old ones as the game progresses. You do that just by interacting with characters in the game, I roll for your SCM recruiting roll, and (modified by your CHA) if it's high enough, you've won yourself a new friend!

~Scott/Editor

Speaking of rolling...am I correct in thinking that Paizo doesn't have its own in-house dice roller? Do most people use invisiblecastle...?

~Scott/Editor

4d6 + 1 ⇒ (2, 3, 3, 1) + 1 = 10

{dice}4d+1{/dice} except replace the{} with []

Do we need to outfit our characters with everything or just anything out of the ordinary? Hourman is chemist, does he need to buy supplies or a lab? What about our supporting cast's equipment?

Sorry I've been MIA. Things have been really busy at home recently and I haven't had a chance to look through the book yet. I promise I'll get on it soon.

Regarding equipment, there isn't really any 'special' that the Flash really needs I think, so I've just come up with some major purchases (based mostly on what I can gather from what I've read about the early comics, and I bit of imagination/extrapolation). Where I found equivalent prices in the rulebook I've listed them here:

Car: Fast, Sporty, 2-Seater (1939 Cadillac 61, $1350)
Housing: House in the City ($4250)
Private Chemistry Research Lab ($?????)

You know, Normanak, Kipper, at first I was thinking we didn't need a private chemistry research lab on the starting equipment list, but according to Book II, the inventing and magical research rules, even a 1st-level Hero is entitled to invent things. I'm going to add it to the extension of the starting equipment list in Supplement III. Let's assume one costs $1,000 (half the price of inventing a device that duplicates a 1st-level power).

That said, Supplement II says Speedsters cannot invent things (one of the few limitations for a potentially overpowered class I could come up with; plus Jay was never a very good chemist -- his powers were the result of an unrepeatable accident).

~Scott/Editor

>Do we need to outfit our characters with everything or just anything out of the ordinary? What about our supporting cast's equipment?<

Normanak, I'm flexible here. You can go Kipper's route and only make major purchases, or you can inventory everything. You at least need to tell me about anything out of the ordinary your Heroes or their supporting cast have (non-furniture items valued at more than $100 and any weapons or armor people have).

You can assume your SCMs have $200 to buy items with, plus however much you lend them from your own money.

~Scott/Editor

That's fine. I'll still take the lab ($1000) even if he can't use it to invent anything.

(I was basing the "Chemistry Lab" on the plot of Flash Comics #6. Similarly, the car is from #7, but assuming he bought another one to replace it :D!)

I was thinking about Dr. Fate and how the $ amount I gave everyone for buying trophies doesn't leave him enough to get a very cool magic helmet. So, as a freebie, Dr. Fate gets a Helm of Reading Magic and Languages that combines the feature of a Helm of Teleportation.

~Scott/Editor

>That's fine. I'll still take the lab ($1000) even if he can't use it to invent anything.<

And it'll be useful for if you ever have Sandman and Hourman over at your house. You can have an inventing party!

~Scott/Editor

OK, the Flash’s remaining money will be assumed to be spent on miscellaneous everyday items such as furniture & appliances & clothes and the like, which will not be enumerated individually as I doubt they will come into play very often :D.

Equipment for the Flash’s SCMs:
Joan Williams: I read somewhere that she would occasionally pull a gun in the comics, so...
S&W .38 revolver ($16, 3lbs)

Major Williams: I figure he’s got a few souvenirs from The Great War. Whether they are still operational is another question :D...
Browning M1918 .30 automatic rifle ($45, 12lbs)
Browning .45 automatic pistol ($40, 4lbs)
Flak jacket ($80, 12lbs)
Helmet ($7, 10lbs)

Okay, I'll take the lab for $1000. Also, I'm thinking 3-room apartment, the Hudson touring sedan, pocket watch, tuxedo, dress shirt and shoes and furnishings for the apartment.

Mr. Bannerman lives in a 6-room house, his niece has an apartment and a fancy dress, Jimmy Martin has leather coat, truncheon, brass knuckles, handcuffs and lives with his mom in the suburbs and Thorndyke has a Smith & Wesson .40, bulletproof vest and a flashlight.

Does Hourman have too many SCM's? Ths statblock says Charisma: 12 (4 SCM) and I count 5.

Normanak, I was either going to bump up Hourman's Charisma or give you a freebie SCM (since the comic books make them all canon). You've got some interesting equipment on Martin and Thorndyke...those kids are probably about 10 years old...

~Scott/Editor

A flashlight is a good idea though. I'll add one to Joan's gear as well.

Normanak, I was either going to bump up Hourman's Charisma or give you a freebie SCM (since the comic books make them all canon). You've got some interesting equipment on Martin and Thorndyke...those kids are probably about 10 years old...

~Scott/Editor

Oops!