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| 7 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
I have had some issues in the usage of the Swarm of Fangs spell during PFS play. Though, this question is not PFS specific. The spell is in the Monster Codex under Troglodyte.
The issue is this; I have had two GMs declare this spell unusable as they said the spell requires and is missing a stat block for the fang swarm.
Was this spell intended to have a statblock or does the spell work exactly as I believe, similar to a flaming sphere? I would appreciate an official response in either case.
Creatures caught inside the swarm’s area of effect take 2d6 points of damage. The fangs deal damage to all creatures sharing their area when they first appear, and at the end of their movement each round.
They don't give stats, so it doesn't have stats. Spells are not targetable by normal attacks unless they give stats (such as wall of ice). As such, this spell is invulnerable to any form of attack that's not something designed to counter a spell (such as dispel magic).
Hardly unusable. It's actually worse than flaming sphere and is a higher level spell to boot.
They don't give stats, so it doesn't have stats. Spells are not targetable by normal attacks unless they give stats (such as wall of ice). As such, this spell is invulnerable to any form of attack that's not something designed to counter a spell (such as dispel magic).
Hardly unusable. It's actually worse than flaming sphere and is a higher level spell to boot.
eh...It's got a few advantages over Flaming Sphere/Aggressive Thundercloud. Namely, no saving throw, no SR, 40 ft move, doesn't have to stop on the first creature it touches. Still, pretty weak for a 3rd-level spell.
I do agree with your point though.
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They don't give stats, so it doesn't have stats. Spells are not targetable by normal attacks unless they give stats (such as wall of ice). As such, this spell is invulnerable to any form of attack that's not something designed to counter a spell (such as dispel magic).
Hardly unusable. It's actually worse than flaming sphere and is a higher level spell to boot.
I agree that it is far from an overpowered spell. And, despite the fact that it does appear to work just as it is written I have had two whole tables agree that it is 'broken', as in not finished.
The only problem I have seen with this spell so far is that it doesn't specify what kind of damage it deals and whether DR applies or not.
We assumed that, as it is not elemental or force damage, DR would apply.
All swarms do untyped damage that does not bypass any DR, unless stated otherwise, so I would assume this is the same.
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All swarms do untyped damage that does not bypass any DR, unless stated otherwise, so I would assume this is the same.
The problem is... it is not a swarm as it is not a creature. Its more like the english word swarm than the Pathfinder keyword swarm. It does not follow any swarm rules nor does it have a statblock. It just is merely a set of numerous flying teeth. And, the rules regarding untyped damage being declared in a spell means it is untyped magic damage.
Honestly, the spell works like a combination of Black Tentacles(Unnattackable, animated, conjured, untyped magic damage) and Flaming Sphere(mobile, flying, magic damage(elemental fire), move action to change position). It is a conjured spell effect that does untyped damage.
The problem is... while those I play with have no problem with Black Tentacles not being attackable, they have had issues with Swarm of Fangs being unattackable.
For those who are in the same straights as I, especially since the spell is worded a bit odd as it references a creature type without producing a creature, it would be nice to have a clarification.
I agree that a line of clarification would be good. At the very least something like the line of black tentacles that specified the spell is not targetable by normal means.
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Swarm of Fangs:
You summon a swarm consisting of thousands of animate, flying teeth in a 10-foot-by-10-foot cube. These fangs attack all creatures within the swarm’s area. You can summon the swarm so that it shares an area with other creatures, and you can move the swarm up to 40 feet each round as a move action. If you choose not to move the swarm, it automatically moves up to 40 feet to envelop the nearest creature (including you) if it has not already done so.
Creatures caught inside the swarm’s area of effect take 2d6 points of damage. The fangs deal damage to all creatures sharing their area when they first appear, and at the end of their movement each round.
The swarm summoned by this spell cannot be damaged, but they can be dispelled as normal.
I think just adding the bold line to the spell description would handle the confusion.
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| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
There has been some movement on the home front.
The spell seems like it wants to be a variant on summon swarm, so one would think it needs a statblock, but I ssee how you could read it as being a spell effect (and thus not having distraction or the like); only the continued use of the word swarm seems to hint not to do that. Definitely a good FAQ candidateHi Mark,
In the Monster Codex there is a spell Swarm of Fangs. I was wondering if the spell is supposed to have a statblock for the swarm it summons or if the swarm is supposed to be undamageable like Black Tentacles?
Given this, I'd like to once again push for a FAQ for this spell. Whether it be a statblock or act like a creation spell, I do not mind. I'd just like to be able to use this interesting spell.
I thank everyone who takes a moment to click FAQ and any who, higher up the rungs, takes a look at my request.