I apologize for the title; had to do it.
I'm interested in making a build that is focused on Sundering with a sub-focus on Overrun and Bull Rush. I'm thinking Barbarian is the main class to focus on. I'm also interested in including at least 2 levels of Fighter with the Siegebreaker archetype, as it seems to complement the build well. Below are some elements that I've collected that I'm interested in including in the build.
I also want to give a shoutout to Exguardi and his Doorbreaker Guide. You can find the discussion here and the link to the guide is in the initial post. It was very helpful in finding a lot of the elements mentioned below.
Traits: Destructive Blows & Muscle of the Society
Feats (need to cut some):
Power Attack
Improved Sunder
Improved Bull Rush
Improved Overrun
Greater Sunder
Greater Bull Rush
Greater Overrun
Barreling Overrun
Spiked Destroyer
Charge Through
Merciless Rush
Destroyer's Blessing
Raging Throw
Rebuffing Reduction
Minotaur's Charge
Breaker of Barriers
Untwisting Iron Strength
Perfect Style
Smash
Stunning Irruption
Deific Obedience: Rovagug
Exalted Bullrush
Elephant Stomp
Squash Flat
Magic Items: Impact weapon, Smashing weapon, Belt of Thunderous Charging, Maul of the Titans (probably customized to be something other than a Greatclub)
For Race, I'm interested in some kind of Minotaur, which will negate 1 or two Orc feats above. I'm also interested in trying to work out something with my DM for either a custom Minotaur race with Powerful Charge, in order to qualify for Minotaur's Charge, or get a waiver on the Powerful Charge requirement if using a Minotaur. I could also just re-skin an Orc or Half-Orc as a Minotaur.
Anyway, any advice would be appreciated.
You might also want to check out a breaking weapon, with smashing, that adds 4d6 to your sunder attempts. In a Way of the Wicked campaign, my sundering half giant wields a large sized Breaking, Smashing, Earthbreaker for 7d6 damage on a sunder.
Edit to add: with that title, you may want to consider a Meteor Hammer or a dwarven Dorn Durgar
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I played a 2 handed weapon fighter/barbarian, Lucerne Hammer was able to enter most rooms without using the door.
Oh, the weapon isn't the wrecking ball. The PC is :)
Good call on Breaking; Shattering is the next step up from that even!
For weapon, I'm considering some kind of big hammer; maybe just an Earthbreaker. There's a 3rd party exotic weapon called a Dread Maul that deals 2d8. Considering taking the feat to up the damage to that.
That's... a lot of feats you want. With that many feats on your wish-list, you might be better off picking a class with Martial Flexibility, so you can pick which maneuver you need at the time.
If not, then a Lore Warden fighter would be great for the flat bonuses for all combat maneuvers. The Martial Master archetype stacks with this, but you won't get Flexibility until level 5, although you still get tons of regular bonus feats.
RaizielDragon wrote: Magic Items: Impact weapon, Smashing weapon, Belt of Thunderous Charging, Maul of the Titans (probably customized to be something other than a Greatclub) This is the weapon you want.
It'll be the last post on the thread, my last post, anyway. On the first page.
Are you, by any chance, allowed to take any 3.5 and/or 3.0 Feats? If you are, I can get your DPR over 1000 before level 10, which, of course, is probably why you probably aren't.
It is a lot of feats. I'm not planning on fitting all of them into the build, necessarily. A straight Fighter could maybe almost do it, but a Barbarian is better at Sundering and breaking objects since he get's a Str bonus as opposed to just an att/dmg bonus, so I'd like to try to fit in some Barbarian as well.
Could maybe go with a Mutation Warrior to get the best of both worlds though. Still wouldn't get some of the nice Rage Powers, but would be able to get most of the feats I listed.
Yeah, I'm thinking a Barbarian 2 / Fighter (Mutation Warrior, Siegebreaker) 18 is the way to go. The 2 levels of Barbarian get me Rage and the Overbearing Advance rage power.
Mutation Warrior lets met get Mutagen, Greater Mutagen, Grand Mutagen, and one other discovery from the supplied list.
Siegebreaker gets me extra damage on Overrun/Bull Rush, temp HP, and stacking an Overrun on top of a Bull Rush. The level 4 and level 8 features will be kind of a waste though, unfortunately.
Alternatively, I could do Barbarian 2 / Fighter (Mutation Warrior, Siegebreaker) 2-3 / Brawler (Mutation Mauler) 15-16. My Mutagen would continue to get better, since Mutagen levels stack (though this only affects the length of time the Mutagen lasts which is kind of negligible). I wouldn't gain access to the Grand Mutagen, which means I'd be giving up an extra +2 Str, Con, and Dex. I'd also lose out on a feat. I would gain unarmed damage, extra melee damage from mutagen, flurry, and maneuver training, which are all useful. If I do 3 levels of Fighter, I'd get Armor Training, and since Mutagenic Mauler loses AC Bonus, I can use Medium or Heavy armor without worrying about losing out on an AC bonus, and Armor training let's me move full speed in Medium armor. Brawling might be a reason to stay in Light armor, though not sure. I'd only be at 2d6 unarmed damage, which is what I could do with a 2-handed weapon as well, so wouldn't have to depend on unarmed damage.
That's a pretty sweet custom weapon Scott. Will have to have my character look into commissioning one. I don't think I'd have room for the feats to make one myself.
I doubt I'd be allowed to dig too deeply into 3.5/3.0 feats if the intent is to break the game. I'd love to hear whatever your suggestion is though :)
I should also point out that my main interest in Sundering was just to break through walls, bust down doors, etc. Though Sundering weapons/armor with a bunch of extra damage that carries over thanks to Greater Sunder sounds like a fun way to boost damage; if a little cheesy.
Did somebody order cheese?
If you can take 3.5 Feats, then rather than Master Craftsman and Craft Magic Arms and Armor, you might just take the Ancestral Relic Feat, which lets you develop your item at market cost.
There is a 3.5 Feat called Combat Brute. If you destroy your opponent's Armor or Weapon, you get an extra attack as a Free Action.
There is another 3.5 Feat called Deadly Concussion. If you destroy your opponent's Armor or Shield by Sundering it with a Blunt Weapon, you inflict again as much damage upon the wielder.
There is a 3.5 Feat called Pushback. You get a free Bull Rush with every hit.
There is the Pathfinder Feat Greater Bull Rush which gives all your Allies an Attack of Opportunity when you Bull Rush your opponent out of a Threatened Square.
There is the Teamwork Feat Paired Opportunist. If you or any of your allies gets an AoO, you all do. If you get your Teamwork Feat via 1 level in Cavalier or 3 levels in Inquisitor, you can get around the need for all your allies to have the same Teamwork Feat.
There is a 3.5 Feat called Shock Trooper. If you Bull Rush one opponent into another, you get a free Trip attempt on both.
Then there are Improved and Greater trip and Vicious Stomp.
The 3.0 version of Improved Trip grants a Free Action Attack as your opponent goes down rather than an Attack of Opportunity.
The 3.0 version of Improved Sunder lets you do double damage when Sundering your opponent's weapon. That partially stacks with the Maul'. You would do quadruple damage instead of triple. But Deadly Concussion would fully stack with both, making it effectively octuple damage!
Between the sundry feats I mentioned you may make multiple cascading free action attacks doing quadruple, even octople damage, knocking people down, bull rushing people into each other, maxing out your attacks of opportunity, leaving a horrific trail of twisted metal and flesh.
Yeah, that sounds pretty cheesy :) I guess there's a reason old stuff isn't allowed :D
Wow. Just saw Shrapnel Strike. +BAB on break checks seems pretty amazing. With that, I could eventually break through a 3-ft thick hewn stone wall :)
Why is Maul of the Titans so heavy? I jsut saw that it's 160lbs. If it's just a Greatclub, it should be 8lbs. Is it supposed to be a larger-sized weapon than Medium? Or is it just heavy from all that magic in it?
Minotaur (Krynn-Style):
Type: Humanoid (Ogre, Giant, or Monstrous, depending on your campaign)
Strength: +4
Constitution: +2
Charisma: -2
Natural Armor Bonus: +2
Speed: 30 ft.
Size: Medium
Automatic Languages: Common, Minos
Bonus Languages: Dwarven, Giant, Gnome, Orc, One Other
Senses: Low-Light Vision
Because my minotaurs are Appalachian Mountain Men sorts, they have 'hillkind' - +2 to Intimidate, Perception, and Climb. Talk to your GM about what would be appropriate for a minotaur race in his game.
So if the interest is in Sunder, specifically for smashing things, I would say go Barbarian 20 (in whatever flavor you like). Because with Strength Surge and Shrapnel Strike, you could tack on barbarian level and BAB to Strength checks to break stuff. Which would let you punch through a 3-foot stone wall. Naked. And the DR would protect you from the shrapnel too. Don't forget to throw on Stunning Irruption from the same book to complete the Kool-Aid Man aesthetics. More importantly, the combination of the two would let you begin smashing things much earlier rather than waiting until higher levels for it to become effective.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2szs2?Level-5-Pounce-Need-help-with-a-Siegebrea ker#1
Here'sa thread I started on a similar build recently. The big difference being that I was very focused on Shield Slam. Here's a build outline for my first seven levels, I'll prolly continue with Ulfen Guard:
1 Ranger 1 Power Attack/ Spiked Destroyer
2 Ranger 2 Shield Slam
3 Bloodrager 1 Imp. Bull Rush, Extra Rage-->Retrained Greater Overrun
4 Siegbreaker 1 Breaker Rush
5 Siegebreaker 2 Breaker Momentum Improved Overrun
6 Siegbreaker 3 Mutagen
7 Ulfen Guard 1 Improved Shield Bash, Extra AoO
I ran this by my current GM and he found it acceptable:
Monstrous Humanoid (3RP)
-Includes Darkvision 60ft
Medium (0RP)
Nomral Speed (30ft) (0RP)
Paragon (+4 Str, -2 Int, Wis, & Cha) (1RP)
Standard Language (0RP)
- Common & Giant (racial language)
Sprinter (1RP)
- +10 speed on charge/run/withdraw
Fast (1RP)
- +10 speed (40ft total)
Gatecrasher (2RP)
- +2 on checks to break/Sunder
Relentless (1RP)
- +2 overrun/bull rush
Natural Attack (1RP)
- Gore (1d6)
Powerful Charge (2RP)
- Double Gore damage dice on charge
TOTAL: 12 RP
I mainly wanted Powerful Charge in order to qualify for Minotaur's Charge. So I could cut some of the extraneous stuff like Sprinter, Fast, Gatecrasher, Relentless, and downgrade from Monstrous Humanoid to just Humanoid, and that would make it 4RP.
Hm. I never realized that Strength Surge was +level. I always thought it was a flat +10; not sure where I got that from. I will look into including more Barbarian levels. I still have a lot of feats that I want, so fitting in some levels of classes that grant those might still end up being part of the plan.
Is there any way to get other class levels to stack with Barbarian for purposes of Rage Powers?
Found something interesting, and wanted everyone opinion on it:
Exalted Bull Rush: Prerequisite: Str 13, Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack, BAB +1.
Benefit: You can charge into a foe and use your body to damage him, while simultaneously pushing him backwards. When you make a Bull Rush, you also make a normal melee attack roll. (This is considered a charge.) If your attack roll succeeds, you deal melee damage. The damage is 1d3 if you are unarmored, 1d4 if in light armor, 1d6 in medium armor, and 1d8 in heavy armor. You add 150% of your Strength bonus to this damage.
Minotaur's Charge: Prerequisites: Strength 13, Improved Bull Rush, Powerful Charge.
Benefit: When you hit an opponent with a charge attack, you might also initiate a bull rush as a free action. This does not require you to move into your opponent’s square and does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If you successfully push your opponent 15 feet or more, he is also knocked prone.
With these two feats together, would the following work:
Charge opponent, using either a regular charge attack or a Bull Rush. We will use a Bull Rush for this example. Since making a Bull Rush, Exalted Bullrush also has you make a melee attack roll (that counts as a charge). If melee attack roll succeeds, deal damage based on armor (as per Exalted Bullrush), then make a Bull Rush attempt because of successful charge attack (thanks to Minotaur's Charge). Because you are making a Bull Rush attempt, you also get a free melee attack that counts as a charge (thanks to Exalted Bullrush. Repeat until you miss on one of the non-Bull Rush attacks (a failed Bull Rush doesn't end the chain, because you get the free attack just for attempting the Bull Rush). If you had started the chain with a regular charge attack instead of a Bull Rush, you would still have started the chain if the charge attack was successful, because it would have generated a Bull Rush attempt (thanks to Minotaur's Charge) and the attempt would generate another charge attack roll.
Seems kind of cheesy, and uses 3rd party material, but it does depend on connecting consistently. Eventually a 1 will be rolled and the chain will end.
Each Bull Rush generated during each iteration could be adding damage as well. Merciless Rush lets you deal Str mod damage on a Bull Rush that is successful by 5+. Crushing Rush (or level 2 Siegebreaker) gives you a free Overrun attempt on a successful Bull Rush, and Overbearing Advance deals Str mod damage on a successful Overrun. So each attack has a potential for +2xStr mod damage if you can keep passing Bull Rush and Overrun checks.
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