Klar rules questions collection: Best of


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

1.Where's the FAQ/Errata for the Klar?
2.Under what conditions is the Klar treated as a shield
3.under what conditions do the armor spikes on the shield behave as armor spikes
4.under what conditions is the Klar treated as one handed
5.under what conditions is the Klar treated as light
6.how many objects is the Klar 1,2 or 3 (Klar, armorspike&shield, armorspike&shield&Klar)
7.what feats interact with its use
8.does using the Klar as a weapon prevent the shield bonus
9.can the shield and weapon break separately
10.can you hold things in the Klar hand?
11.should it just be treated as a slashing armor spike?
12.do you need to make a shield bash with the shield to activate shield slam, or is the Klar a modification of the shield bash
13.under what conditions can it be two handed
14.under what conditions can it be finessed
15.is it considered a shield for the purpose of denying abilities that can't be used when a shield is active.
16.can you chose to use it as a weapon without strapping it on as a shield.
17.does it need to be strapped on as a shield
18.does it have spell failure chance
19.does it have armor spikes, shield spikes or both.
20.if it doesn't have shield spikes can they be added.
21.does proficiency in the Klar grant proficiency in light shields and armor spikes?
22. if so, does it matter if they are part of the Klar or not?
23. how does the Klar interact with slashing grace?
24. when grappling with a Klar, can it be used as a light weapon "spiked shield"
25. can it also be used as an "armor spike"?
26. Does armor spike bonus damage from armor and two Klars stack?
27. It's not a double weapon is it?

That's all I can find with a two hour scan sorting through everyone's rules debates on the Klar. I think it's a cool flavorful weapon, but I'll be damned if I could explain how it works to a DM without them thinking I'm hiding something.


It's a Klar. As far as I know...

http://pathfindertrue20.wdfiles.com/local--files/equipment/klar.JPG

It's a big knife with a massive skull, skull-shaped piece of wood, or skull-shaped piece of iron that provides a handguard bigger than the knife itself. It's a weapon, so it doesn't benefit from armour enhancements, shield special qualities, or shield modifications. It's a one-handed single weapon, so can only be finessed with a feat or class feature that provides an exception to normal finesse rules, and can be two-handed whenever for the 1 1/2 strength bonus.

Klar wrote:
Benefit: A traditional klar counts as a light wooden shield with armor spikes. A metal klar counts as a light steel shield with armor spikes.

You ready it as a weapon, and it provides a +1 shield bonus to AC. If you attack with it, it stops providing a shield bonus, unless you have Improved Shield Bash, until the start of your next turn. It has all the protective drawbacks, such ACP and ASF, of a light shield given the description above.

The klar is mainly good at low levels for TWF or TWF Shield Bash builds when you don't have ideal feats or equipment, though it does move into the curiously loveable Thunder and Fang TWF fighting style. It used to be a light weapon, and is not quite the boy it used to be since it was changed to a one-handed weapon.

Sczarni

ErichAD wrote:
That's all I can find with a two hour scan sorting through everyone's rules debates on the Klar. I think it's a cool flavorful weapon, but I'll be damned if I could explain how it works to a DM without them thinking I'm hiding something.

I have a 10th level Klar-user in PFS, so I feel your pain. The simplest way to explain the Klar to a GM is that it's a Light Spiked Shield that does 1d6 slashing damage rather than 1d4 piercing damage. I'll see if I can help answer these questions for you:

ErichAD wrote:
1.Where's the FAQ/Errata for the Klar?

There is none. Yet.

ErichAD wrote:
2.Under what conditions is the Klar treated as a shield

It is a light spiked shield.

ErichAD wrote:
3.under what conditions do the armor spikes on the shield behave as armor spikes

Never. That is a misprint. The Klar has been printed in 4 different sources, and only in Ultimate Equipment is it described as having "Armor Spikes". In every other printing they are "Shield Spikes".

Some users claim that the most recent printing (Ultimate Equipment) trumps all previous versions, but there is no general rule that supports this. If you're extremely pedantic and simply wish to debate rules to no end, then "Armor Spikes" it is. If you genuinely want to use a Klar, then go with "Shield Spikes".

ErichAD wrote:
4.under what conditions is the Klar treated as one handed

Only when a medium-sized wielder uses a large-sized Klar.

ErichAD wrote:
5.under what conditions is the Klar treated as light

It is a light spiked shield.

ErichAD wrote:
6.how many objects is the Klar 1,2 or 3 (Klar, armorspike&shield, armorspike&shield&Klar)

It is one object.

ErichAD wrote:
7.what feats interact with its use

Too broad of a question. Almost any feat that could interact with weapons or shields.

ErichAD wrote:
8.does using the Klar as a weapon prevent the shield bonus

Yes, just as bashing with any shield would.

ErichAD wrote:
9.can the shield and weapon break separately

It is one object.

ErichAD wrote:
10.can you hold things in the Klar hand?

Yes, just as with wearing a light spiked shield.

ErichAD wrote:
11.should it just be treated as a slashing armor spike?

See #3 above.

ErichAD wrote:
12.do you need to make a shield bash with the shield to activate shield slam, or is the Klar a modification of the shield bash

Use the normal rules for bashing with a shield.

ErichAD wrote:
13.under what conditions can it be two handed

Medium wielder two-handing a medium-sized Klar: no real benefit, as it's a light weapon.

Medium wielder two-handing a large-sized Klar: -2 attack, 1d8 damage, +50% damage from Strength and Power Attack.
Medium wielder two-handing a huge-sized Klar: -4 attack, 2d6 damage, +50% damage from Strength and Power Attack.
ErichAD wrote:
14.under what conditions can it be finessed

Just as a light spiked shield.

ErichAD wrote:
15.is it considered a shield for the purpose of denying abilities that can't be used when a shield is active.

Yes.

ErichAD wrote:
16.can you chose to use it as a weapon without strapping it on as a shield.

No more so than any other shield.

ErichAD wrote:
17.does it need to be strapped on as a shield

Yes.

ErichAD wrote:
18.does it have spell failure chance

Yes, as listed on the chart.

ErichAD wrote:
19.does it have armor spikes, shield spikes or both.

See #3 above.

ErichAD wrote:
20.if it doesn't have shield spikes can they be added.

It is a light spiked shield.

ErichAD wrote:
21.does proficiency in the Klar grant proficiency in light shields and armor spikes?

Klar proficiency (such as from the Shoanti Tattoo race trait) would not bestow proficiency in light shields, but proficiency in light shields would make you proficient in using a Klar as a shield.

The same analogy can be used regarding weapon proficiency. Being proficient in the Klar does not bestow martial weapon proficiency, but being proficient with martial weapons means you can attack with a Klar and not suffer the usual -4 penalty.

ErichAD wrote:
22. if so, does it matter if they are part of the Klar or not?

See #3 above.

ErichAD wrote:
23. how does the Klar interact with slashing grace?

Just fine?

ErichAD wrote:
24. when grappling with a Klar, can it be used as a light weapon "spiked shield"

Yes. It is a light spiked shield.

ErichAD wrote:
25. can it also be used as an "armor spike"?

See #3 above.

ErichAD wrote:
26. Does armor spike bonus damage from armor and two Klars stack?

See #3 above.

ErichAD wrote:
27. It's not a double weapon is it?

No.


Thanks for the help, treating it as a spiked shield is much simpler.

Regarding it's status as a light spiked shield. Is it's listing as a one handed weapon on the weapon chart a misprint as well?

Sczarni

I was about to answer "Yes", but looking at the Inner Sea World Guide and Adventurer's Armory it's listed as a one-handed weapon (I don't have access to my copy of Varisia, Birthplace of Legends right now).

So, my apologies. Amend my previous breakdown to describing it as a light spiked shield that counts as a one-handed weapon (unless you have Thunder and Fang, which specifically treats the Klar as a light weapon when also wielding an Earth Breaker).

Grr. Simplification failed.


Let me see if I got it all.
-It's a small shield with a unique shield spike that is slashing and one size larger than normal.
-You can hold things in the hand wielding it, but not wield something in that hand or use it to provide +1 hand to a weapon in your other hand.
-you can pass your main hand weapon to the klar hand and use both hands on the Klar.
-It is enchanted, crafted and purchased exactly as if it were a small spiked shield.
-It requires spiked shield, klar, and shield proficiency to use correctly.
-It can be finessed through slashing grace and swashbuckler but takes it's own shield penalty to hit.
-you can use it to make shield bash attacks or Klar attacks

Did I miss anything? I'm starting to think the weapon suffers from using other items to describe how it should be used.

Sczarni

There's no such thing as a "small" shield. If you describe it like that, people will get confused.

It's a martial weapon, just like every other shield.

You shield bash with it, just like every other shield.

Yes, you'd take its ACP on attack rolls if non-proficient, just like other shields.

Yes, you'd take its ACP on attack rolls with Swashbuckler's Finesse/Slashing Grace, just like attacking with a light spiked shield while using Weapon Finesse.

It does more damage than other shields, and it's slashing.

You can hold (but not wield) other items in that hand (just as though you were instead wearing a light spiked shield).

About the only thing that deviates from the norm is that it's a one-handed weapon (unless you have Thunder and Fang).

Clear as mud, right?

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Klar rules questions collection: Best of All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.