|
the basic idea is here
and though I am pretty unsatisfied with the implementation, i think the raw idea is really cool.
In my campaign, we level with the story (everybody levels at the same time at certain points in the story) - and so this restores a sort of 'xp' reward which i like!
what I want to keep:
-Starting Fame equal to character level + CHA
-Fame increases by +1 when you gain a new level
-Fame increases by +1 when your Charisma modifier increases from level-based ability increases
-Fame increases when you accomplish important deeds - doubled or trebled if done so in style!
-Prestige points are awarded each time your Fame increases - these may be 'spent' on Privileges
-Many of the Privileges in the book are spot on
-Higher Fame grants you access to cooler Privileges with which you may spend your Prestige
what I want to change:
-Fame tiers 10/20/30/40/50 let you spend Prestige on 1/2/3/4/5-pt Privileges respectively
-Privilege 'costs' standardized to fit within this schema
-Prestige points are not hero points, they are not feats. They are political 'get out of jail free' cards. No bonuses to skills checks, no learning spells (wtf!), no picking up class skills or features. Prestige points allow you to obtain Privileges.
ideas?/help?
cheers
I would like to see a system that reflects a PC's standing with different political factions and players. It would be complicated, but for a sandbox-style campaign, it might be worth it (helping one group raises your status with members of that group, but puts you at odds with another faction).
What I don't like:
Prestige Points represent your ability to leverage your Fame.
Calling in favors is only one side of the game - obligations should be part of it as well. It does not necessarily have to be part of a formalised rule system, but it should play a role.
I'm interested to see where this goes.
|
|
maybe a 1-pt Privilege could be to attempt a social check (Diplomacy, Bluff, Intimidate) to influence a (smaller) organization's attitude with respect to you (Hostile, Unfriendly, Indifferent, Friendly, Helpful) - after which, if you want to stay on good terms (Friendly or Helpful) you must spend 1 or 2 days a week on average fulfilling your end of the obligation, else you must make another check each week at cumulative +1 DC lest your relationship status slide one step towards Indifferent.
Naturally, if you are on certain terms with one organization, a rival organization may consider you on similar terms with them as default.
Also, you gain a faction bonus on social rolls.
|
|
greatly simplified!
the whole 'tiers of fame' as separate from 'prestige points' was an unnecessary distinction.
now players just get fame points (FP) for leveling and completing objectives, and can spend them on privileges.
I am going to give them the Leadership feat for free but at half leadership score - if they take the feat they get the full score. But, they must leverage their fame each time they want to recruit followers or cohorts per the rules above - they don't simply materialize out of thin plot.
your input appreciated!
As said before, I am not really happy with the concept of leveraging fame in general, so I took a different approach: Fame becomes Affiliation, which represents a PC's rank in a certain organization. A PC can increase his affiliation if he furthers the organization's goals.
Depending on his rank in that organization, the PC can spend Prestige Points to access the organization's ressources, thereby gaining special benefits (as usual).
Affiliation also influences interaction with members of other organizations (bonuses and penalties on social skill checks, increased/reduced prices, etc.).
This system has a few advantages:
- social interactions are more complex than fame/infamy. PC's can even compete with each other to fulfill their faction goals
- organizations offer different benefits (similar to those presented in the pathfinder faction guide)
- players are not penalized for trying to keep a low profile
- investment and rewards are strongly connected with each other, which makes a lot more sense flavorwise than leveraging the PC's 'popstar' status
Of course, for this to work, organizations need to play an important role in the game and the GM has to work out the organizations in detail, offering different plot hooks.
|
|
shoot me a model.
i am working on trying to combine the ideas in this thread with those here.
unlike going full prestige class (in the linked thread), like you said, i more envision organizations providing access to resources that the PCs can Leverage Fame to gain (recruit cohorts, draw favors, etc).
hashing out relationships between organizations, a function of previous history and the actions of the PCs themselves, will modify social rolls (Faction bonus).
and, assuming the organizations are heroic(-ish) and non-clandestine, i'm totally ok with a little PC rockstar status.
|
|
sample LG/NG/CG revolutionary organization:
Rank - Title
0 - Seeker (informal)
1 - Inductee
2 - Member
3 - Captain
4 - Co Leader
5 - Group Leader
Seeker
You show some potential. You are allowed to go on missions which double as a sort of interview. No special privileges or responsibilities, except maybe an equal cut in loot. The group may vote to Induct you, or a Captain or higher authority may simply promote you during periods of time-sensitive conflict.
Inductee
You demonstrate tremendous potential. You become privy to some low-clearance information about the organization, are allowed to sit in on low-clearance meetings, and if you put in at least one day of work a week, are allowed to enjoy some of the physical amenities of the home base (if any). The group may vote to grant you Membership, or a Captain or higher authority may simply promote you during periods of time-sensitive conflict. However, at any time for any reason, a Captain or higher authority may deem you unfit and request that you leave the group, with or without holding a tribunal.
Member
You have proven yourself to some degree. You become a voting member who is allowed to attend medium-clearance meetings, are privy to medium-clearance information (for example the identities of the membership and structure of the organization), and if you put in at least two days of work a week, are allowed access to some of the other resources of the group in addition to physical amenities. You are entitled to a tribunal if a Captain or higher authority deems you unfit, except during periods of time-sensitive conflict.
Captain
You leadership skills are exemplary. You gain access to high-clearance (officer only) meetings and information (such as what sorts of items are brought to the general membership meetings to vote on), and effectively become a full-time member expected to spend at least half your time working for the organization and providing leadership to the other members. You have advanced access to group resources. During time-sensitive conflict, your word overrules those of your subordinates. This is an elected position.
Co Leader
Your continuous dedication and leadership skills prove invaluable. You gain the highest level of clearance, and are allowed to meet privately with the group leader to discuss strategies not only on how to achieve the group's voted-on objectives but also on how to steer the group as a whole towards new objectives. You have unrestricted access to group resources. During time-sensitive conflict, your word overrules those of your subordinates. This is an elected position.
Group Leader
The buck stops with you. Essentially the same as Co Leader, except your relative position is one step higher.
I'm still working on my concept, but I figure it will be very similar to yours.
This is basically an overhaul of the fame and reputation system:
Affiliation
Factions play an important role in this campaign. You may choose to begin play with an affiliation to one faction at an Affiliation score of 1 + your Charisma modifier. If you complete objectives during the course of play that help your faction to further its goals, your Affiliation score increases and you rise within your faction's ranks. If you harm your faction's interests, your Affiliation score decreases. If your Affiliation score ever drops below 0, you are expelled. Your Affiliation score with a certain faction can not exceed 9 unless you formally join that faction. You can belong to more than one faction, provided they are at least indifferent to each other; however, under normal circumstances, your Affiliation score can exceed 20 only in one faction.
Prestige Points
Belonging to a faction has its benefits. You earn Prestige Points (PP) by increasing your Affiliation score. Each time your Affiliation score increases, you also gain 1 Prestige Point. You can spend these Prestige Points to access the faction's ressources and further your own goals. Your current Prestige Points can never exceed your Affiliation score. You can't share Prestige Points with other characters; only the character who earned them can spend them. Most of the time, you spend points on rewards—titles, temporary abilities, or bonuses on tasks associated with your interests.
If you leave a faction, you can not gain any new Prestige Points. Unless you were expelled, you can still spend your remaining Prestige Points. Depending on the terms of your leave, you may or may not rejoin later on, regaining your former Affiliation score in whole or in part.
Awards
Spending Prestige Points earns you awards—temporary bonuses or favors. Each time you want to use an award, you must spend the Prestige Points for that award. Unless otherwise stated, bonuses from spending Prestige Points do not stack. Spending Prestige Points on a reward is not an action. You may only spend Prestige Points if you can access your faction's ressources.
Titles are a special category of award that is permanent instead of temporary. Unless a title's description says otherwise, you can only select a particular title once.
Each faction has its own special benefits that can be accessed by members of a certain rank.
Table: Affiliation and rank
Affiliation / Rank
1 candidate
10 member
20 agent
30 officer
40 leader
55 grand leader
If you are a member of a faction (Affiliation score 10 or higher), this affects your interaction with members of other factions, depending on their relation to each other [note: I made a table for the purpose of cross-referencing, using the Diplomacy starting attitudes]. If you want to hide your affiliation from an opponent, you must succeed at a Bluff or Disguise check opposed by your opponent's Investigate or Streetwise check (with a +2 bonus for each 10 points of Affiliation you possess).
Helpful: You gain a +2 bonus on Bluff, Intimidate and Negotiate checks for each 10 points of Affiliation you possess. Merchants, hirelings, and innkeepers give you a 10% discount for their services.
Friendly: You gain a +1 bonus on Bluff, Intimidate and Negotiate checks for each 10 points of Affiliation you possess. Merchants, hirelings, and innkeepers give you a 5% discount for their services.
Indifferent: No special modifiers.
Unfriendly: You suffer a -1 penalty on Bluff, Intimidate and Negotiate checks for each 10 points of Affiliation you possess. Merchants, hirelings, and innkeepers overcharge you by 10% to discourage you from doing business in their community.
Hostile: You suffer a -2 penalty on Bluff, Intimidate and Negotiate checks for each 10 points of Affiliation you possess. Merchants, hirelings, and innkeepers refuse to accept your business. If you enter a business, you are immediately asked to leave. If you refuse, the owner calls for the authorities or locals to throw you out.
For each faction, there will be special ways to spend Prestige Points (gaining access to long-distance transport, hide in a safe house, creating a false identity, etc.)
|
|
I really like your overhaul. Major sandbox appeal. I was very disappointed with the execution of the fame and reputation system in UC though I really liked the seed of the idea.
As this is my first time formalizing a system like this, I wanted to shed half of the complexities - I figure if your Rank added directly to a Bonus without a conversion factor it'd be easier to remember, and if everything costed a single point i'd spend less time trying to balance the relative costs of favors and get on with it. Not that I'm opposed to your added complexities - I really like how you have re-skinned the entire system without changing the fundamental numbers! - it's just that I am airing on the conservative side at this point. Plus, it's doubtful my PCs will try to join any other factions for the AP I'm running (hence my binary Fame/Infamy) - they're just not those type of folks methinks - thus the arc of the campaign will essentially allow their actions to be viewed from a monochromatic lens.
How do you handle transfer credit? Drop to 0 the only option? What about long-term infiltration?
I can not take any credit for this, as it is mostly the system presented in the Faction Guide. Fame and Prestige is basically just the setting-neutral version from Ultimate Campaign. I agree that it really depends on what kind of game you want to play and I understand that it does not appeal to every player.
Standardizing privilege cost is indeed a big advantage of your system. I wonder how you grade the power of privileges from 1 to 5? Are there still permanent effects ('titles') or do they all become temporary? The faction guide states that 1 PP should be worth approximately 375 gp, but that only works for material rewards.
How do you handle transfer credit? Drop to 0 the only option? What about long-term infiltration?
I guess transfer between allied factions should allow you to keep some of your prestige. Also, players have the possibility to earn good favor with one or more factions without having to join them formally (up to an Affiliation score of 9), so there is some leeway.
Infiltration would be a special case, but it should work within these rules. You wouldn't be able to gain support from your own faction without endangering your cover, and once your cover is compromised, you lose all prestige gained in the service of the infiltrated organization.|
|
More ideas.
Basically, using the Fame/Infamy point system, I am granting Leadership to my PCs for free. Almost. In addition to only having half your normal leadership score (without the feat), There are five important restrictions which differentiate this from 'carte blanche' Leadership.
1) The NPCs must already exist in the game
2) You must earn their favor by expending Fame Points and by Keeping Up Appearances
3) Cohorts only work part time unless you establish a stronghold/guild/church/tower, etc.
4) "Contacts" - who provide occasional free services - subsumes "Followers" in the leadership table
5) true Followers may be gained only if the character takes the feat and establishes a stronghold/guild/church/tower, etc.
|
|
I have done away with Experience Points in my game, and as such, Prestige Points have more or less come to replace them. I am running Fame and Prestige straight out of the book (despite how this thread began), so far with a single exception: "Arcane Study" replaced by "Divine Prayer" (using Cleric list instead of Wizard list plus no ability damage).
Anybody else got some cool uses for Prestige?
General uses or specific to a group/organization?
For a game with strong political elements: Spreading rumors/instigate riots, access to safehouses/covert transportation, invoking diplomatic immunity, creating false identities, short time access to a team of specialists (forgery, surveillance, cryptography, etc.), borrowing a special item/renting an interesting location for a short period of time, gaining patronage of an influential figure, obtaining invitations to exclusive social events (gentleman's club, salon, party)
I don't know if its already there but potentially getting companions/low level adventurers to come fight for you for free as a startup gig into their adventuring career (I know you said you didn't want feats and this is literally the Leadership feat minus the cohort, but every rule has its exceptions). They would only follow you on one adventure before splitting, might possibly take a small cut of your loot's gp value, and would cost a high and potentially exponential amount of prestige to gain these followers. Also your prestige and fame with certain factions would influence what you can "recruit" like you could recruit a fledgling cleric from a town guard garrison at medium fame but you could easily do it at a low fame from a church but you could never get a thief from a Hellknight outpost.
Another thing I can think of is having people that are privately hired (like a mercenary guard to a BBEG hideout) look the other way due to fear or respect of the player/party in question.