Bane Baldric and Inquisitor

[Trevor Wiazek]

The Bane Baldric adds 5 levels to the Inqisitor's bane ability. If your Inquisitor is 7th level and they have this item does their bane ability become the greater bane ability that normally comes at 12th level. i.e. does he now get the greater bane ability 4d6 instea of 2d6?

[Paz]

Not a PFS question; flagged to be moved.

[Mergy]

No he doesn't. The Greater Bane ability is not part of the Bane ability; it merely modifies it.

[Cfoot]

Mergy wrote:

No he doesn't. The Greater Bane ability is not part of the Bane ability; it merely modifies it.

At 12th level, whenever an inquisitor uses her bane ability, the amount of bonus damage dealt by the weapon against creatures of the selected type increases to 4d6.

I think it would, but what do I know.

[RtrnofdMax]

Sadly, James says no.

[TGMaxMaxer]

If it doesn't ... it should per the reading.

It states that by using the Bane ability, when 12th level or higher, you get 4d6 instead of 2d6.
It doesn't replace Bane, or say that it is a separate ability that doesn't stack with the normal bane, it just says that instead of the 2d6 you get at lower levels, you get 4d6 instead -while using the bane ability itself-.

The item adds +5 levels for both bane and greater bane. If it doesn't grant greater bane at 7th level inquisitor, as if they are 12th, then it doesn't do much good for inquisitors, and is only really good for granting other classes the ability.

[Rynjin]

RtrnofdMax wrote:

Sadly, James says no.

Well that's just silly.

[RtrnofdMax]

TGMaxMaxer wrote:

If it doesn't ... it should per the reading.

It states that by using the Bane ability, when 12th level or higher, you get 4d6 instead of 2d6.
It doesn't replace Bane, or say that it is a separate ability that doesn't stack with the normal bane, it just says that instead of the 2d6 you get at lower levels, you get 4d6 instead -while using the bane ability itself-.

The item adds +5 levels for both bane and greater bane. If it doesn't grant greater bane at 7th level inquisitor, as if they are 12th, then it doesn't do much good for inquisitors, and is only really good for granting other classes the ability.

You still get 5 more rounds of use. Plus, per your interpretation, you'd only get the extra 2d6 and the not the extra +2 enhancement since it seems you're reading it as not giving the Greater Bane weapon enchantment. If you believe the 12th level feature to give Greater Bane (not just extra dice) then, what he says about not giving class features early makes sense.

[TGMaxMaxer]

*EDIT: couldn't find a "greater bane" weapon enchantment on pfsrd or d20pfsrd, where is it?

As it's written, you get the class feature

Bane:

Bane (Su): At 5th level, an inquisitor can imbue one of her weapons with the bane weapon special ability as a swift action. She must select one creature type when she uses this ability (and a subtype if the creature type selected is humanoid or outsider). Once selected, the type can be changed as a swift action. This ability only functions while the inquisitor wields the weapon. If dropped or taken, the weapon resumes granting this ability if it is returned to the inquisitor before the duration expires. This ability lasts for a number of rounds per day equal to the inquisitor's level. These rounds do not need to be consecutive.

that allows you to grant the weapon ability

Bane:

Bane: A bane weapon excels against certain foes. Against a designated foe, the weapon's enhancement bonus is +2 better than its actual bonus. It also deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against the foe.

at 5th level for level rounds/day.

At 12th level you get the class feature

Greater Bane:

Greater Bane (Su): At 12th level, whenever an inquisitor uses her bane ability, the amount of bonus damage dealt by the weapon against creatures of the selected type increases to 4d6.

that gives you 4d6 bonus damage when using your Bane class feature to grant your weapon the Bane weapon ability (making it +2enh and +4d6 damage instead of 2d6).

Since Greater Bane specifically calls out that you are using your Bane class feature in the first place, and that you get a different bonus not because of a different class feature but instead based on your level, increasing your effective level should work for the purpose of the bonuses.

It's 10k, and no better or worse than a monk doing 2d8 instead of 1d6, or a sorcerer getting their level 13 bloodline arcana at 8 instead, or a fighter getting a static +2, which all work the same way for a relatively close amount of gold, (cheaper as the inquisitor's is limited use/day.)

IMO one of the problems with using the same name (Bane) to stand for several different specific in-game terms.

[RtrnofdMax]

You're right that I must have made it up, or maybe it was a 3.5 thing.

I understand you're bummed and I was too. I was just trying to play devil's advocate about the strength of the item being a bit out of line. If you really think James ruled incorrectly, you can try to reach out to Sean K Reynolds or one of the lead devs. James has been overruled a couple times, but by and large, I trust his judgements.

[TGMaxMaxer]

Not bummed at all, I don't have any horse in this particular race. Just looking at the RAW myself.

[Katie Gonzalez]

RtrnofdMax wrote:

Sadly, James says no.

This makes no sense to me. The item itself says "If the wearer is an inquisitor, she is treated as five levels higher when using her bane and greater bane abilities"

I am a level 7 inquisitor. I am treated as a level 12 inquisitor for Bane and Greater Bane. Hey, at level 12, I normally get Greater Bane. Where's the confusion? I get that it would be confusing if the item only referred to the Bane ability, but it specifically calls out Greater Bane as well.

I do have a dog in this fight. There's little reason for my inquisitor to have spent money on this item if it doesn't grant her Greater Bane (not worth the extra 5 rounds of bane at that price, but it IS worth it for early access to Greater Bane).

[Mergy]

Katie Gonzalez wrote:

RtrnofdMax wrote:

Sadly, James says no.

This makes no sense to me. The item itself says "If the wearer is an inquisitor, she is treated as five levels higher when using her bane and greater bane abilities"

I am a level 7 inquisitor. I am treated as a level 12 inquisitor for Bane and Greater Bane. Hey, at level 12, I normally get Greater Bane. Where's the confusion? I get that it would be confusing if the item only referred to the Bane ability, but it specifically calls out Greater Bane as well.

I do have a dog in this fight. There's little reason for my inquisitor to have spent money on this item if it doesn't grant her Greater Bane (not worth the extra 5 rounds of bane at that price, but it IS worth it for early access to Greater Bane).

You're treated as five levels higher when using the greater bane ability, but you need the greater bane ability to use it, and a level 7 inquisitor doesn't have it yet. In my opinion, 10,000 gp for an extra five rounds of bane is amazing, considering the Extra Bane feat gives a mere three. My TWF inquisitor plans to grab one to combine with Extended and Double Bane, and it's a bargain as far as I'm concerned.

[Katie Gonzalez]

Mergy wrote:

You're treated as five levels higher when using the greater bane ability, but you need the greater bane ability to use it, and a level 7 inquisitor doesn't have it yet. In my opinion, 10,000 gp for an extra five rounds of bane is amazing, considering the Extra Bane feat gives a mere three. My TWF inquisitor plans to grab one to combine with Extended and Double Bane, and it's a bargain as far as I'm concerned.

So all those people using the Sash of the War Champion with a single level dip in fighter are also doing it wrong? The wording isn't exactly the same but the intent seems similar. That's good to know because I see that one a lot...

[Seranov]

Katie Gonzalez wrote:

Mergy wrote:

You're treated as five levels higher when using the greater bane ability, but you need the greater bane ability to use it, and a level 7 inquisitor doesn't have it yet. In my opinion, 10,000 gp for an extra five rounds of bane is amazing, considering the Extra Bane feat gives a mere three. My TWF inquisitor plans to grab one to combine with Extended and Double Bane, and it's a bargain as far as I'm concerned.

So all those people using the Sash of the War Champion with a single level dip in fighter are also doing it wrong? The wording isn't exactly the same but the intent seems similar. That's good to know because I see that one a lot...

Yeah, that sounds like it's not legit, either, because you shouldn't be able to increase abilities you don't have.

[Mergy]

If you don't have the class feature, you can't increase the class feature. That's why it also states that if the character doesn't have the bane class feature, it acts in so-and-so way.

[blackbloodtroll]

So, this is comparable to evasion, and improved evasion?

[katataban]

*Cast necromancy on thread* Sorry but breaking netiquette seems more logical than starting a new one and getting all the same answers already given here.

The item specifically says, if the wearer is not an inquisitor it gets bane as a level 5 inquisitor. But what if I am an inquisitor but don't (yet) have bane. Can I still get the power as described for none inquisitors

[Chess Pwn]

If you're lv 2 and count as lv7 for the bane ability then you have it because a lv7 inquisitor has bane.

[dragonhunterq]

The crux of the above arguments is that you can't use greater bane because you don't have that class ability yet. By extension other class abilities cannot be granted early. The item indicates you have to use YOUR ABILITY. If you don't have the ability you can't use it. So per James post you can't benefit from bane prior to level 5, and as you are an inquisitor you also can't benefit from the non-inquisitor ability.

Strictly RAW this is accurate, "you can use your bane ability...as if you were 5 levels higher". It's not a more lenient "treat your inquisitor levels as 5 levels higher for the purposes of bane".

Which is patently silly and not how I'd run it, but there you go.