| 4 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Has anyone else with ultimate combat noticed the difference between Djinni style and the rest of the elemental styles?
Rest of elemental styles:
While using this style and Elemental Fist to deal [elemental] damage, you gain a bonus on [elemental] damage rolls equal to your Wisdom
modifier...
Djinni Style:
While you are in this style you must use Elemental Fist to deal
electricity damage and you gain a bonus on electricity
damage rolls equal to your Wisdom bonus.
Might seem minor, but a monk with an enchantment on his unarmed attacks to do electricity damage (shocking will do) will get his wisdom as a bonus to damage with every hit. Whereas you actually have to use an elemental fist to get the bonus wisdom damage with the other styles.
Of course, I give this a 50/50 chance of being errataed, but in the meantime, I'm going to dream of single attribute Sensei Wisdom monks.
prototype00
Maybe my brain is malfunctioning, but from what you quoted it seems like the same exact thing worded two different ways. Either way, you have to be using whichever style in conjunction with Elemental Fist to gain a bonus to damage.
Maybe my brain is malfunctioning, but from what you quoted it seems like the same exact thing worded two different ways. Either way, you have to be using whichever style in conjunction with Elemental Fist to gain a bonus to damage.
Does it say in Djinni style that you have to use elemental fist to deal the electrical damage to get the extra wisdom damage or does it just say that you gain a bonus on "electricity damage rolls"?
Because its very specific in the other elemental style feats, you have to be in the style, you have to be using elemental fist to deal [elemental] damage and then you get the extra wisdom damage.
prototype00
Maybe my brain is malfunctioning, but from what you quoted it seems like the same exact thing worded two different ways. Either way, you have to be using whichever style in conjunction with Elemental Fist to gain a bonus to damage.Does it say in Djinni style that you have to use elemental fist to deal the electrical damage to get the extra wisdom damage or does it just say that you gain a bonus on "electricity damage rolls"?
Because its very specific in the other elemental style feats, you have to be in the style, you have to be using elemental fist to deal [elemental] damage and then you get the extra wisdom damage.
prototype00
Well, here is my thought process when reading the Efreeti and Djinni Styles in regard to what you're saying...
Efreeti Style: use the style and elemental fist to deal fire damage-> gain a bonus equal to Wis mod for the fire damage
Djinni Style: use the style-> use elemental fist to deal electricity damage and gain a bonus to electricity damage equal to Wis mod
Slightly different thought process, same result. I think you are reading "and you gain a bonus on electricity damage equal to your Wisdom bonus" as something that happens separately, but it doesn't.
It's just worded in a confusing way just like a bunch of other Paizo stuff that needs to be fixed, but the intention of Djinni Style reads just the same to me as the other ones.
The strong linking of elemental fist -> bonus wisdom damage in all the other elemental styles and the lack of any such link between elemental fist and the bonus damage in Djinni style is all that I'm pointing out. It isn't unreasonable to read Djinni style as giving you bonus wisdom damage every time you have an "electricity damage roll".
I have chosen to take the rules as written, as have you.
So we shall have to agree to disagree.
prototype00
This is the one that confuses me:
The second feat in the style is Djinni Spirit. The third is Djinni Spin.
Creatures that take electricity damage from your Elemental Fist attack must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your
Wis modifier) or be deafened for 1d4 rounds. Those who take damage from your Djinni Spin are deafened, even on a successful saving throw.
Creatures adjacent to you take your unarmed strike damage plus the electricity damage from your Elemental Fist and are deafened for 1d4 rounds. A successful Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Wis modifier) reduces the damage by half and prevents a target from being deafened.I'm not sure why Djinni Spin notes that a successful save prevents a target from being deafened, when one of its pre-requisite style feats specifically notes they would be deafened anyway.
It seems like it would have been more elegant to not include that phrasing in Djinni Spirit, and have the final sentence of Djinni Spin read 'A successful Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Wis modifier) reduces the damage by half, but does not negate the deafened condition.'
The Master of Many Styles monk can get Djinni Spin without getting Djinni Spirit, so that may be the reason.
The strong linking of elemental fist -> bonus wisdom damage in all the other elemental styles and the lack of any such link between elemental fist and the bonus damage in Djinni style is all that I'm pointing out. It isn't unreasonable to read Djinni style as giving you bonus wisdom damage every time it is electricity.
I have chosen to take the rules as written, as have you.
So we shall have to agree to disagree.
prototype00
It's not so much an issue of RAW to me as it is RAI. It is intended to work the same as all the others. I mean, why wouldn't it? Why would they create a standard for these elemental styles, then change that standard for just this one element? But you can read it, interpret it, and use it however you like. I was simply offering my opinion on the matter, not trying to turn it into a debate.
snark
One last thing... Your name already appears every time you make a post. You don't need to sign everything all the time as it is extremely redundant. We all know who you are already. But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that as well.
submit2me
/snark
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Has anyone else with ultimate combat noticed the difference between Djinni style and the rest of the elemental styles?
Rest of elemental styles:
While using this style and Elemental Fist to deal [elemental] damage, you gain a bonus on [elemental] damage rolls equal to your Wisdom
modifier...Djinni Style:
While you are in this style you must use Elemental Fist to deal
electricity damage and you gain a bonus on electricity
damage rolls equal to your Wisdom bonus.Might seem minor, but a monk with an enchantment on his unarmed attacks to do electricity damage (shocking will do) will get his wisdom as a bonus to damage with every hit. Whereas you actually have to use an elemental fist to get the bonus wisdom damage with the other styles.
Of course, I give this a 50/50 chance of being errataed, but in the meantime, I'm going to dream of single attribute Sensei Wisdom monks.
prototype00
As the guy who wrote this style (and the other 3 elemental styles as well), I can say that the intent was for the bonus to apply to your elemental fist electricity damage.
At least that's how they all worked in my turnover.
Hope that helps!
Ah, good to know. Thanks for clearing that up.
prototype00
Djinni Style:
While you are in this style you must use Elemental Fist to deal
electricity damage and you gain a bonus on electricity
damage rolls equal to your Wisdom bonus.prototype00
Bolding and italics mine if you want to read it literally you also have to alwasy use elemental fist to do energy damage so yeah as long as you use the style you gain +Wis on electricty damage but if you want to do any electricty damage you must use a use of the elemental fist feat.
A bit of thread necro to raise another discrepancy between Djinni spirit and the other elemental chains. Maybe Benchak could chime in again?
While using Djinni Style, you gain electricity resistance equal to your base attack bonus or monk level, whichever is higher.
While using Efreeti Style, you gain fire resistance equal to your base attack bonus or your monk level plus any base attack bonus gained from levels in classes other than monk, whichever is higher.
Every other elemental chain lets you use your BAB OR your monk level + non-monk BAB. Djinni, however, lets you use only your BAB or your monk level. For monk multi-classers, it is a difference of 1 at 1st monk level, plus 1 every 4 levels thereafter.
Monk 1/Fighter 5 has +5 BAB, all from fighter. Monk 5/Fighter 5 has +8, with 3 from monk.
Thus, the 1/5 with Djinni Spirit has 5 electricity resistance, and the 5/5 has 8. However, the 1/5 with Efreeti Stance has 6 electricity resistance, and the 5/5 has 10. All other elemental feats use the wording of Efreeti Stance.
Was this an oversight? Should Djinni Spirit function like all the others?