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Pardon my newbish question. I think Ive read the answer someplace, but for the life of me, I cant find it now that I need it.
So, In a RotR game Im running, Ive got a player using a halfling cavalier, who rides a baby t-rex. He wants to know, when the T-rex moves/charges, does the mount get to attack, as well as him attacking (with a lance), or is it just him?
Cant remember how it was worded in the book. I wanted to say no cause I didnt think a horse got to make an attack after the rider did, BUT, considering the mount is treated as an animal compaion, I thought perhaps it might get to, since a Druid w an animal companion (that he doesnt ride, at least), get to act seperately, and both attack, if desired.
Yes if they both charge they both get to attack.
Pardon my newbish question. I think Ive read the answer someplace, but for the life of me, I cant find it now that I need it.
So, In a RotR game Im running, Ive got a player using a halfling cavalier, who rides a baby t-rex. He wants to know, when the T-rex moves/charges, does the mount get to attack, as well as him attacking (with a lance), or is it just him?
Cant remember how it was worded in the book. I wanted to say no cause I didnt think a horse got to make an attack after the rider did, BUT, considering the mount is treated as an animal compaion, I thought perhaps it might get to, since a Druid w an animal companion (that he doesnt ride, at least), get to act seperately, and both attack, if desired.
the T rex has reach, so the most normal circumstance for the mount not being able to attack (the rider has a lance, makes an attack, and needs to stop) shouldn't occur. Happy chomping.
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Pardon my newbish question. I think Ive read the answer someplace, but for the life of me, I cant find it now that I need it.
So, In a RotR game Im running, Ive got a player using a halfling cavalier, who rides a baby t-rex. He wants to know, when the T-rex moves/charges, does the mount get to attack, as well as him attacking (with a lance), or is it just him?
Cant remember how it was worded in the book. I wanted to say no cause I didnt think a horse got to make an attack after the rider did, BUT, considering the mount is treated as an animal compaion, I thought perhaps it might get to, since a Druid w an animal companion (that he doesnt ride, at least), get to act seperately, and both attack, if desired.
From Page 202 of the core guide. "If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance (see Charge)."
So, both rider and mount don't charge. The mount charges and at the end of the charge the player can attack.
Also, remember: "Mounts in Combat: Horses, ponies, and riding dogs can serve readily as combat steeds. Mounts that do not possess combat training (see the Handle Animal skill) are frightened by combat. If you don’t dismount, you must make a DC 20 Ride check each round as a move action to control such a mount. If you succeed, you can perform a standard action after the move action. If you fail, the move action becomes a full-round action, and you can’t do anything else until your next turn."
From Page 202 of the core guide. "If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance (see Charge)."
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From Page 202 of the core guide. "If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance (see Charge)."
Right. Don't get what you are implying. I said that if the horse charges you get an attack at the end of the charge(which, if a lance, does double damage).
The lance does double damage if you charge on horseback -- if you aren't charging you don't deal double damage. Which means if you are just attacking at the end of the horse's charge you aren't charging and aren't getting double damage.
You are saying that you aren't charging the horse is, and the rider would still get double damage -- which isn't correct.
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The lance does double damage if you charge on horseback -- if you aren't charging you don't deal double damage. Which means if you are just attacking at the end of the horse's charge you aren't charging and aren't getting double damage.
You are saying that you aren't charging the horse is, and the rider would still get double damage -- which isn't correct.
Really? You are reading the sentence that litterally? So, when my car is diving 100mph down the road and I get pulled over I can say "No, officer. I wasn't speeding, my car was". They are both charging as one. How's that?
Pardon my newbish question. I think Ive read the answer someplace, but for the life of me, I cant find it now that I need it.
So, In a RotR game Im running, Ive got a player using a halfling cavalier, who rides a baby t-rex. He wants to know, when the T-rex moves/charges, does the mount get to attack, as well as him attacking (with a lance), or is it just him?
Cant remember how it was worded in the book. I wanted to say no cause I didnt think a horse got to make an attack after the rider did, BUT, considering the mount is treated as an animal compaion, I thought perhaps it might get to, since a Druid w an animal companion (that he doesnt ride, at least), get to act seperately, and both attack, if desired.
Also remember for completeness sake that there is a skill check (which undoubtedly the Cavlier will auto succeed on) for the mount to attack with the rider.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/ride has all the various ride skill checks.
Really? You are reading the sentence that litterally? So, when my car is diving 100mph down the road and I get pulled over I can say "No, officer. I wasn't speeding, my car was". They are both charging as one. How's that?
Only what people said before you said otherwise.
The lance does double damage if you charge on horseback -- if you aren't charging you don't deal double damage. Which means if you are just attacking at the end of the horse's charge you aren't charging and aren't getting double damage.
You are saying that you aren't charging the horse is, and the rider would still get double damage -- which isn't correct.
....
What?Also,
So, In a RotR game Im running, Ive got a player using a halfling cavalier,
...What?
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It needed clarifying because you could move and attack while the horse charges -- such as using vital strike instead of charging with the horse, or a mage that has the horse charge and casts a standard action spell instead of charging as well.
Lachlan is partly correct -- you can simply attack when the horse charges -- but you can also charge with the horse to get extra damage with a lance (or spirited charge).
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Just to clarify for everyone...if you read the book it states that the Cavalier's mount is treated as a Druid animal companion. Then go to the Handle Animal section to view trick sets. A Cavalier's Mount comes Combat Trained which gives it the abilty to attack with a Handle Animal check (I think of 15).
In a Charge scenario only the rider gets an attack if you are using a 10ft reach weapon and the mount doesn't have reach...the mount is too far back to be able to reach the target and attack.
In your specific scenario there is no reason a mount with reach wouldn't get to attack as well seeing as he is within range of his reach attack.
Keep in mind that a mounted Cavalier that starts out at 5ft reach (in normal mount circumstances) could have his mount attack then 5ft step back to attack with his 10ft reach weapon.
Make sense?
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The lance does double damage if you charge on horseback -- if you aren't charging you don't deal double damage. Which means if you are just attacking at the end of the horse's charge you aren't charging and aren't getting double damage.
You are saying that you aren't charging the horse is, and the rider would still get double damage -- which isn't correct.
Hmm I disagree. I think you are not considered charging in this case. I base this on the fact that the paragraph explained the bonuses and penalties. Why would it not just say you are considered to be charging along with your mount.
The line about the lance is referring to attacking with a lance when your horse is charging. Also remember there are rules on what you can do if you horse makes a double move, so no full attack, etc.
just my opinion. I think if they wanted you to be considered charging, then they just would have said it, rather than give you all the same benefits.
Also this mean you do not have to end when you make your attack. You can attack with a lance, and your horse can continue to move until he is close enough to attack and then attack. (That end any funny business about your horse not really charging if he cant attack.
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Also,
So, In a RotR game Im running, Ive got a player using a halfling cavalier,...What?i hate to say this but im playing a halfling Druid/Fighter with a Cat, Big(lioness) also using a lance
so the most normal circumstance for the mount not being able to attackok lets say i dont have a lance my cat and me charge dose the me/cat get a attack with a +2 hit -2 ac each or cat beacuse the did the charging not me?
Reading this tells me two things.
First: We are all somewhat confused as to how actions are handled when the pc doesn't move...but he is being moved
Two: Not many of us have characters in our games who fight mounted
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Alright, so this is what Ive gathered from this, and I think makes sense:
--Reach--
Mount moves, and may attack at the end of the move, as long as the rider doesnt have longer reach than the mount does (unless rider has Ride-by-Attack).
If the rider has a reach weapon and the mount does NOT have reach, then the mount must stop when the target is attacked by the rider (again, unless the rider has Ride-by-Attack, with would allow the mount to continue to move, possibly basing the opponent for the mount to attack)
--Charge--
If the Mount charges, it takes -2 Ac, +2 Attack on ITS attacks.
The rider MAY CHOOSE to charge with the mount, then giving the rider the -2 AC, +2 Att on his attacks.
--Charge with Lance--
If the rider chooses not to charge with the mount (taking the -2 AC, +2 Att), then he does not receive auto double damage on the attack with the lance.
Thoughts?
the rider at no point chooses to charge. the /mount/ charges. regardless of what the ride intends to do both he and the mount get the ac penalty or charging.
the ride can make one attack at any point duringbthe charge. if that single attack is made at the end of the charge it gets the benefits from spirited charge or a lance.
nothing in the mounted combat rules prevent the mount from attacking, having a reach weapon is mostly irrelevant to this as nothing says the mount stops it's charge when your lance connects.
that said you could have situations where your lance connectscand the mountcantbtrachbtbe target but in say a flat plain both you and your mount can both attack.
nothing either says your lance hit has to happen as you approach the target. if you charge and your mount over runs the target you could hitbthr target onnthebother side.
Mojorat you are wrong on the rider never needing to choose to charge for reasons I covered earlier in the thread.
maybe im phrasing it wrong, Obviously the ridier decides hes going to charge (hes got to tell his mount e wants to do that) but i was under the impression he himself was not performing the Charge actin. Hius mount was.
the rider then suffers the penalties for it to Ac as if he were charging.
I think it is mainly a matter of phrasing but it does matter if the rider chooses to charge or not with his mount.
The main reason is that a charge is a full round action in and of itself. If the rider charges with his mount then he will not have a move action left. If he simply lets the mount charge (and takes the bonus and penalties himself still) then attacks (with a standard action) he would have a move action left to pull out a magic item for example, or dismount.
There is also the case of having your mount charge while you take a full attack with a ranged weapon. This is best illistrated with the following example:
I am playing a cavalier that has the quick draw feat as well as spirited charge and mounted archery with a BAB of +11.
I have my mount charge, as he moves I take a full round action to attack as well. For my full attack I throw two javelins as we move up (thanks to quick draw) then attack the target of my mount with the lance I quick draw as well.
Now I'm ok to do this since I'm only taking a single melee attack, and I'm allowed to attack with ranged weapons to my hearts content (so long as I take my penalties) -- however since I didn't charge (and couldn't have since that takes a full round action) I won't get triple damage from my lance (lance and spirited charge) -- with the way you are suggesting it works (which is what Rocksoul said earlier) I would get triple damage on my lance too.
Charging is a full round action, and if you don't take the full round action to charge with your mount then you don't get the extra damage from the lance.
Another example would include a druid having his mount charge, then the druid attacking with a standard action (perhaps a cleave) and finishing by taking a move action to direct a spell (such as flaming sphere). In this case he doesn't get the extra damage from the lance since he didn't charge.
At the end of the day it all comes down to action economy -- to get the extra damage requires that you charge while mounted so that you can't do any of the other things I describe above.
Hmm i didnt look at it like that, i assumed you didn thave any choice in the matter. if your mount charged you simply lost your move action and could only make a single melee attack. wether you wanted to or not simply because the mount was charging.
I have a level 9 Summoner that rides a pegicorn Eidolon. One of the people in our group has a halfling cavalier tat rides a wolf.
i never thought of that Shoot/throw twice then draw a melee weapo bit though.