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Another 5/5 star review, this one from RPG.org Everyone seems to agree that Way of the Samurai offers more than just a supplement for Kaidan, rather any oriental PFRPG setting. Wicht wrote: I just noticed this book was something of an orphan as far as categories it has been placed under. Its not even grouped in with the Rite PFRPG material. It should properly be placed in the Rite Kaidan subgroup and perhaps also in the Rite Races and Classes subgroup. I could be mistaken, but I don't think the Paizo Store (software) allows to place a product in more than one category - a program oddity. #30 Haunts for Kaidan for instance is in the #30 series category and not the Kaidan category. I noticed the category glitch yesterday for Way of the Samurai and contacted Steve about (I think he needs to make the change...) Edit: Steven knows and he'll get Liz to change it on Tuesday (Monday is a holiday). Michael My #30 Haunts for Kaidan does that to some extent... but don't believe me, believe a recent review. Here's a review of that product from RoleplayerChronicles.com - review just released yesterday! I'd go as far as saying that a haunt is never an intelligent entity, it is only a memory (always). The assumption is that haunts aren't existing and doing things when nobody is around to see it. So haunts become active only when someone enters it's proximity, touches it, hence 'triggering it'. There are no intelligent haunts. As far as subsystems go, Haunts are extremely simple. 1. A perception check to notice to prevent/detect an untriggered haunt.
That's it - is that so complex a 'subsystem'? I don't know if it's RAW, but most parties without a cleric has wand of CLW, and since healing is positive energy, using up charges from the wand should serve the same purpose. Lots of monsters (especially undead and especially ghosts) are difficult for non-specialized characters to hit. So a haunt is no more invulnerable than a typical ghost. Parties can still fight ghosts and not have a cleric, though it's easier with one. Many encounters are best fought with specialized opponents, haunts are not unusual in that way. Answers: 1. Kaidan is an archipelago of islands that could be anywhere in a world's oceans. A split from the Land of Linnorn Kings while unusual, seems reasonable enough. 2. The Curse of the Golden Spear is an introductory adventure arc in the Kaidan setting, so yes, it was designed for typical adventurers from mainland Golarian (or other European like nation). While I won't say you can run oriental characters, these adventurers are supposed to introduce 'westerners' to the far east. Playing samurai, ninja and shugenja is a bit off from the modules intentions. One note, Kaidan has a yamabushi, instead of shugenja (which is a misnamed class - shugenja means a worshipper of Shugendo, which includes farmers and children, not necessarily a priest.) The PCs should be strangers to Kaidan. 3. I think having one healer with channel energy in the party is important, but only one is necessary. You'll want a typical balanced party. Look at the pre-gens for inspiration. There are fighters, a rogue, a sorcerer and divine class. A balanced party is all you need. 4. See #3. 5. Typical magic items from the Core is the expectation. There will be many magic items introduced to the setting. Some in the adventures, some in the Kaidan supplements. Ancestral Relics will be out soon, these are items like Legacy Weapons. We will be working on a formal setting handbook soon which will feature all equipment and magic items. Sorry that release is not ready yet. I hope that helps. -Michael PS: I'm a stickler for authenticity. So if a class or concept seems different than from Oriental Adventures, it's because I've corrected to match culture/history/legend. I consider OA error heavy (at least on the fluff side), and Kaidan is here to correct the mistakes from over the years. Epic Meepo wrote:
But a haunt containing a programmed illusion as it's triggered effect will do exactly what you describe above, and still constitute a valid haunt. A haunt does not have to be a harmful spell. The programmed illusion might show clues as to the manner of malevolent activity that caused the larger evil where such haunts manifest. And not all haunt effects can be 'positive energied' away. Say the haunt effect is 'Bestow Curse'. No amount of healing or positive energy is going to make the curse go away. It still takes a Remove Curse of the appropriate DC. The positive energy could prevent the haunt to cause the curse by preventing it from manifesting, but does nothing as an after effect. Spells and cantrips like ghost sound, animate object, excrutiating touch, summon spells, walls of fire - while some of these could cause damage (fighting a summoned monster, walking though a wall of fire), all are viable effects for a haunt, and none of which can instantly kill. All can be effective for telling a story and revealing clues. It seems to me, that most of the detractors only consider killing spells as viable haunt effects, thus all haunts are "PCs lose now" effects and that just isn't so. Look at the spell lists, there are plenty that do not kill and all are viable haunt effects. Rite Publishing's Kaidan: a Japanese Ghost Story setting... It features it's own closed cosmology. It's steeped in authentic Japanese ghost stories, folklore, history and culture. It's feudal Japan crossed with Asian horror. Note this book is 52 pages long, almost 30% larger than our Way of the Yakuza supplement that preceded it. If you're looking to expand the options for the Samurai class from Ultimate Combat, then this book is for you. However, in Kaidan, the social castes are significant, and the Samurai caste includes lots more than just samurai warriors, which is why samurai caste gunslinger, paladin, ranger, and wizard archetypes are made available to you in this supplement. GMs should find Chapter 3 - Creating a Samurai Clan a wonderful tool for designing your own custom and highly detailed samurai clans. Know what the opposition is like, or know your own clan in great detail. I hope you guys like the map I created for this - the Minkai map I created for Jade Regent #6, influenced the design of this town. Also, unmentioned above, I've replicated 36 actual samurai house crests (kammon) made available (without actual family names) so your samurai can choose the crest of his own clan. These are authentic family crests to make your game feel more real. I can't wait for the release! Look at #30 Haunts for Kaidan. There are 9 'chapters' each it's on story, its own set of hauntings, and ancilliary content. Placing haunts in the same style and build up as the haunts in this supplement will definitely bring the horror back into haunt mechanic, that other publications seemed to miss with. I'd say the first haunted location in the The Gift, Curse of the Golden Spear: Part 1 is a very iconic and scary complex encounter that involve dream sequences, a powerful ghost, several related haunts and some ghouls making one of the scariest encounters you'll see in any publication. Yeah I'm definitely not a fan of hack/slash type horror movies - I'm all for atmosphere. The Haunting of Hill House is a scary concept for a movie, Halloween, not so much. Not quite the same, but Rite Publishing has In the Company of Henge - which are the anthropomorphic shapechangers of Japanese folklore. And the henge feature multiple versions (subspecies) in that single publication. Josh M. wrote:
I didn't play Haunting of Harrowstone, so I can't talk about what Paizo did right or wrong with that adventure, but have run plenty of adventures including published ones with the Haunt mechanic and it seemed to work fine, fit the concept for a haunt. Horror is my forte as well, in fact I publish a horror setting for Pathfinder where haunts are a significant aspect of the setting. Josh M. wrote: The root of fear is the unknown; the moment a person can identify the threat and possible ways around it, it stops being scary. The way haunts were handled in that adventure were just annoying. Maybe one specific, residual type of supernatural occurrence is more likely to happen in one specific location, but a general haunting encompasses an entire site, not just one entity per room. At least in my experience. Well of course, the haunting was scary until you figured out how to deal with it. The same is true that a ghost is scary, until you figure out how to beat it, as the werewolf is scary until you stab it with silver dagger. All encounters are scary until you defeat it - it kind of goes with the territory of playing Pathfinder or any game system. Or perhaps any real situation as well. I don't see figuring out how to defeat a haunt as taking anything away from a haunt. Nobody wants an unbeatable encounter, so once you figure it out, you deal with it and move on to the next scary encounter... that's how the game works. Josh M. wrote: That, and the haunts were way over the top and hokey. At least for me, the most terrifying hauntings are the most subtle, keeping you in the dark and never knowing fully what's going on. Maybe you hear footsteps in the next room, but when you run in to look, there's no one there. You're standing in a group of fellow adventurers, and only 2 of you hear a whisper that seems like it came from right between where a few of you are standing, and from... Again, I can't rate the haunts of that adventure I didn't play it, but the haunts and haunted locations in The Gift, Curse of the Golden Spear: Part 1 from the Kaidan trilogy is not 'over the top', it fits the situation and history of the location, and is quite creepy. A CR 0 Haunt with Ghost Sound (cantrip) as it's triggered effect would do exactly what you describe. I see haunts as the spiritual recollection of some tragic past event. One haunt in one room is not a restriction of a ghost in one room, it's only the memory of one event - which occurred at a single location (a room, etc.) and manifests when the triggering activity sets it off. The whole house is haunted, perhaps by a single undead entity, but the triggered haunts at any location cannot occur anywhere except where the act that caused the haunt occurred. It follows traditional ghost lore well. A haunt doesn't represent a different entity in each room. In fact I'd go as far as to consider most haunts in the same area (haunted house) as a single entity. A haunt isn't necessarily the entity itself, just a single event 'remembered' by such an entity. In other words, all five haunts in that house has to do with the same single entity, not five different entities. A haunt is just a spell in creepy clothing. While certainly some spells can be devastating, that's just something in the normal game. A haunt doesn't work like "you lose", it's still a spell, you've got saving throws. If a wizard with Greater Invisibility suddenly casts a spell on you with the same effect as a haunt is that something unexpected or a case of "you lose"? The only difference is the haunt is the caster, and you have a chance to notice it and avoid it's effects. If you fail your perception check to notice, and then fail your save versus the spell effect, yeah, then you're screwed perhaps. That can happen with any spell cast on you, I don't see the difference. Brian E. Harris wrote:
No, I'm just saying it's extra cost. Rite Publishing released Frozen Wind a free PDF adventure back on Halloween last year with many downloads since. We decided to make it available as a POD printed book at Lightening Source and it took some fairly major changes to the original layout (alteration of the page borders, resizing of some illustrations and reformating tables) - it was from a page layout point of view, a lot of work to finally conform to the printers needs. I'm not saying if a publisher goes POD he's going to lose money at all. Its just more work and more cost, that's all. Another problem though is I can't sell that POD printed book at the Paizo store. Epic Meepo wrote: Or the GM just declares that the graveyard is desecrated and the corpses are zombies. There's no need for pseudo-trap rules that allow a cleric with a good initiative modifier to negate the entire encounter before it happens. Of course, it was just an example. Epic Meepo wrote:
I agree that a unified mechanic would be an improvement, but I won't abstain from using haunts, traps, hazards because of the difference. Used sparingly and in the right place, haunts are an effective part of the game. I don't know about your adventuring parties, but our's don't walk en masse into any encounter, let alone a trap or haunt. There's always one guy up front (a ranger at point, usually), so it's never a roll for all party members to notice a haunt, it's usually only one. I've been doing things like having multiple haunts in a given area all under the control of a single undead (usually ghost) entity or powerful necromancer, and killing/defeating the undead or necromancer destroys the haunts. So the party will encounter a few haunts, avoiding some, activating others, eventually getting to the bad guy and deactivating all the haunts. You can't get that to happen to normal traps. Haunts are very much story telling elements that hurt you, but give you clues and tell a story itself. In Rite Publishing's #30 Haunts for Kaidan, there are related haunts, some that don't even hurt the party directly. Say one haunt causes desecrate which doesn't really hurt anybody, but that haunt also triggers the second haunt, say one that does animate dead, now the dead bodies in the shallow graves around you rise up and attack. There is also a magic item in this volume that let's you detect haunts. I think Trevor Gulliver really delivered in that haunt release, because in it, complete little stories are created involving a legend or tragic event, with several related haunts and sometimes a ghost, wight, or other monster encounter that make haunts have a real purpose that are fully developed in their surroundings that make such encounters exciting, and fun to play. A haunt by itself, like a trap can be an interesting surprise. Too many haunts or traps and it's drudgery. But combined with an encounter, a treasure, elements that move the plot forward and it becomes an intrinsic part of the story/campaign. I rarely use haunts that kill directly - though they definitely hurt you, sometimes haunts are good for getting parties to spending resources as the primary goal. Like anything its the delivery that matters. Well try our free adventure, Frozen Wind, it's a PDF download. It's a one-shot designed for a party of up to 5 characters of 5th level, there are pre-gens included of Kaidan classes. It's available from the first link above. It was originally a demo game, our author ran at Origins last year. He is also creating 2 new adventures that he will run at Origins this year, as well as a session of Frozen Wind. proftobe wrote: pardon my ignorance, but what is kaidan? I'm a fan of horror games and this sounds interesting even if I don't know why. Kaidan is a campaign setting based on a cross between feudal Japan and Asian horror with an emphasis on authenticity based on Japanese ghost story traditions. The word 'kaidan' means 'ghost stories' in Japanese. I am half Japanese, and the setting is based on a lifetime research into my heritage, as well as a love for Japanese horror. Kaidan is an imprint under Rite Publishing having already released a 3 part introductory adventure trilogy called The Curse of the Golden Spear, as well as a free adventure we released last Halloween called Frozen Wind. We have 3 racial supplements, and 1 faction supplement called Way of the Yakuza, and a soon to be released Way of the Samurai. Look at the Paizo Store entries for all our products We also have #30 Haunts for Kaidan, but it's currently listed under a different product package: #30 Haunts. Endzeitgeist wrote: -Something akin to Dark Powers Points to reflect corruption, both of purity (being good) and honor. Doesn't the Karma Points mechanic serve that already? One can acquire either positive or negative karma points based on one's deeds. While currently karma only applies as a modifier to your reincarnation roll on the Wheel of Life, it could be expanded to mean more than that, perhaps. As an aside, the player guide, if including archetypes and other crunch would include a Kaidan player character sheet to include the extra bits of Honor and Karma scores. It probably should be duplicated in the GMs handbook too as necessary support material. In most folklore tales from Japan, where there were offspring in a relationship between human and yokai is a human with unnatural beauty and perhaps are more healthy, but tend not to have enhanced or super human abilities of any kind. Of course that is folklore and not necessarily Golarian lore. Lafcadio Hearn's Kwaidan: strange discussions published in 1899, one of the tales, Yuki-onna, features a yuki-onna (snow woman - a type of yokai) who has a relationship with the human protagonist while she is in disguise as a human woman. They bear two children. For all intents and purposes they are human children and have no yokai nor yuki-onna traits. Japanese lore does not include any half-races or mixtures of human and other races. You're either human or your not. Of course this may not be true for Golarian oriental beings... Not to discount the possibilities of mulitple books, if that's the best way we should go, I have to say, it was my initial intention of providing the setting handbook as a hardbound b/w book. Which means, probably at least 200-ish pages. With a good chunk dedicated to a gazetteer of the major islands and locations of note in Kaidan, with a highlight on a half dozen specific locations such as a tengu mountain village, a provincial castle, etc. In such a book, what should I include? I had ideas of putting player crunch and fluff to start off with, like the Core Rulebook, just with more fluff. Should a player crunch/fluff book be a separate supplement from the setting handbook? I want to fill 180+ pages of content for a hardbound - wouldn't it be better to include both player and GM content to fill that content? I probably should have mentioned this to start. I could see a player hand-out, that is less beefy than the initial intent of the setting handbook, and more on fluff, even perhaps not including the archetypes, beyond listing those available, with some setting hooks to build character ideas from. Include an overview map of the whole of Kaidan, less detailed than those in the gazetteer of the GMs handbook. That and a #30 Obake Bestiary (Kaidan bestiary), and then a larger setting handbook that includes intended player and GM crunch. Would that better fit preferences, and still give me enough content to fill a hardbound book? Thoughts? Ancestral Relics will be completed soon and that will indeed be it's own book. I was thinking like the Core Rulebook includes some artifacts, that a listing of a dozen additional ancestral relics might fit. Truly, while the archetypes, traits, feats and spells from the various In the Company of... and Way of... series will be included, my goal is to include mostly new, unreleased content. Separate bestiary PDF - noted. Possible separation of player vs. GM content - noted. I like cursed items too! I have ideas of additional content that hasn't been directed to a specific release like hazards, curses, cursed locations and more. Any other ideas or preferences? I'm beginning preliminary work on a Kaidan Setting Handbook. What would you like to see in it? I'm thinking the start would have an overview of Kaidan, from a perspective that anyone living there would know. Next would be the players section, which would include races, new classes, archetypes, feats, equipment, spells and traits, as per the structure of the Core Rulebook. The GM's section would include detailed discussions on running an oriental setting, then a horror setting, then specifics about Kaidan - the deeper knowledge that many locals are not aware of, at least regarding specifics such as politics, economics, religion, government, the social castes, cosmology and the Death and Reincarnation cycle. Magic items, Ancestral Relics (Kaidan's artifacts), and a Bestiary. This would be followed by a detailed gazetteer of main islands of Kaidan and their respective provinces, major cities, points of interest and wilderness reaches. Additional maps would be created as well. Some people might prefer a bestiary section kept out, rather in it's own bestiary as a separate book. Would this be a preference? What else would you like to see, or what better method of displaying the material would you prefer? Of the PDFs that I use at table, I have all the PDFs printed then comb bound like a book. I periodically add a PDF to the end of it, and then create a table of contents that includes everything from all PDFs. If I get too many PDFs, I may put tabs on the edges to more easily find the correct PDF. Of course I run a daytime graphic design/digital print studio, so I can print 2 sided full color if I wanted, but B/W is fine and cheaper for me. So do I need printed books PDF supplements, no, but if I need it, I print it - what's the big deal? The program I use to create Page Layouts can export any resolution, so the same quality I put into print layouts is the same as PDF layouts, it's just that the required amount of space between the page edge and the text and graphics may differ. Printers sometimes require a greater margin, than what I design for PDF. I often look to my inhouse printing devices and use their requirements for margins, etc. which don't seem as tight as the requirements for print. I can print with an 1/8 inch margin, whereas print usually requires a 1/2 inch or more. How a printer handles full bleeds (edge to edge printing) seem to differ from printing house to printing house. If it were all one standard, it would be easy to do layout. But every shop seems to have their own parameters. Note I do work in the print industry, though I am in digital, not web press industry (though I have worked for that industry in the past). From the publisher's point of view creating both a PDF product and a print product is expensive. Usually, the page layout that works for PDF is different than the requirements for layout for print. Whenever a project I'm working on gets released to PDF, the given layout works fine for product release. When I send the same project layout to Lightening Source (at DrivethruRPG), I end up doing the layout 2 or 3 times to meets some tight idiosyncratic needs of the printer. What my layout looks like for print is almost completely different than my layout for PDF. It takes twice the effort (and twice the cost) in layout to create the differing versions. While POD is a great way to release printed books one at a time, it isn't very cost effective, compared to standard large volume printing. POD printing costs more per individual print - which makes the cover price higher. While large volume printing is more cost effective, it is only so if you can successfully sell your product in volume. And anyone in the RPG industry knows that large volume sales for anything RPG is not a realistic approach. What is successful for RPG sales is often dismal compared to anything else in print. While I personally prefer a printed product, especially for use in game, getting such a product into my hands is more difficult and expensive than what someone might normally think. Rite Publishing's The Gift: Curse of the Golden Spear - Part 1 features 2 very scary haunt locations, each featuring several related haunts, one often triggering another, as well as associated ghouls, a ghost and horrifying dream sequences - both involving an overnight stay. Both are some of the creepiest haunts you'll likely encounter in a published adventure. Also consider any Rite Publishing's #30 Haunt supplements, each a collection of 30 haunts of a related theme: haunts for houses, ships and shores, objects, or haunts for Kaidan. Especially the last one, has several related haunts plus it shows you how to combine haunts with hazards, undead with lots of background story to make your players experience much more immersive and creepy. harvdog wrote: I am not sure I like the idea of converting the nine swords abilities to feats,etc. The book was meant to provide interesting options for new fighting classes. An entire new system was created (a system which at it's core works well, and is very fun to play) for this purpose. It's like saying we are dropping the wizard and just making each spell a feat, that any class can take. It's not a direct conversion of Bo9S, most people don't want that at all, I certainly don't. The fact that it was an entire new system is what most (including me) do not like about the Bo9S. To make something usable with existing mechanics (ie: traits, feats, archtypes) would be the only way I'd allow Bo9S concepts into my game, and is the purpose of this patronage project. My participation is only to make sure the system works with my Kaidan setting - which is also a Rite Publishing productline. I'm not interested in a Bo9S direct (as is) conversion, ever. I've been commissioned to update the Cerulean Seas world map, as the first of possibly more maps for the setting... Alitan wrote:
Once the APG was released, Pathfinder became it's own game. While it's true some of the ideas in APG are similar to UA 3.5, it was still distinctly Pathfinder. I don't see the APG as power creep of the Core, rather the Core was the basic game book needed to play, but was missing the necessary fits to complete the game. While I think the UC is better than the UM, I very much prefer what has been included in PF, more than all the books produced for 3.5 added together. During and after Beta, I was playing a combined 3.5 and Pathfinder game. After doing that for a year, our group abandoned 3.5 altogether and now only play Pathfinder - we do not want to include 3.5 rules, and think that doing so, makes the game less playable. I would say it's true, but then I don't know if all the maps for the adventure are in the Map Folio - I don't have the Map Folio, so I don't really know. As an aside, if you do get the map folio. The map of the City of Kasai, while the final is done by Paizo's inhouse cartographer, I am the cartographer that actually designed the city of Kasai in pen and ink. Even the map folio version is smaller than the map I designed, which was originally 36 x 54 in hand-drawn format. Leper wrote: A barbarian wants to rage? In 3.5, players says "I'm going to rage" - frankly, this ability is already kindof a pain cause I have to recalculate their HPS, hit rolls, damage rolls, saves, AND AC. But I'm willing to put up with it cause this is a central ability for barbs. In PF, they actually made this ability MORE complicated. Now, in addition to the (too many) calculations), I have to tabulate how many rounds he's raging and keep track of a multitude of rage abilities, in addition to all of the other crap that's going on during combat. Really? I require my players to include all their stats. So barbarians have stats when not at rage and when in rage (I don't have to recalculate anything, players are required to have this data on their sheets.) My players sheets also have their BAB, their adjusted BAB, and their Adjusted BAB with spell buffs, and for each weapon they wield. The same for alchemists in evolved form, wild shaped druids (including all wildshape forms they plan to use). In combat, all my players roll their dice simultaneously witnessed by other players, all hits are calculated, then damage roll is calculated. Then by initiative, each player tells me what AC they could hit, I tell them how many hits, and they tell me the damage dice (which they already rolled for this round), I subtract the hp from the monster. And the next round begins. It doesn't take much to cut down the time it takes to do a combat round, if your players make their rolls and damage ahead of time. The problems you have, I do not. Light sources are always useless in D&D - why is that even an issue? Having torches and lanterns are only necessary when their is no spellcaster in the party. Besides we've got elven rogue characters who'd rather not have a light spell activated so they can maintain stealth in the dark. Our players would prefer everyone to have Darkvision so light sources are never turned on. You seem to have lots of bookkeeping issues that I do not, since my players are required to have all such information on their sheets. If a barbarian character in rage, cannot tell me when it ends, then I'll end it arbitrarily, because they are required to know and be able to tell me whenever I ask. Besides, I don't mix PF with 3.5 - I keep 3.5 where it belongs in the trash. master arminas wrote:
I was certain that you weren't running an oriental campaign. While I agree monks should/could be considered martial arts fighting friars from Europe, or a total fantasy, non-European setting that could include anything from paladins to monks and still fit - monks to me are still oriental. Tattoo wearing was generally not condoned in the west either, except by sailors, and or criminal elements, (it's more common today) which is why tattoos work so well for a yakuza styled campaign. I just can't see a monk wearing a tattoo in any setting, except for the total fantasy setting where anything goes (which is a perfectly fine campaign to play in.) The same would go for a paladin or cleric - would the Bishop approve of them wearing tattoos? Pirates definitely fit the tattoo wearing motif. Personally, I'd rather see standard monk accoutremont for enhancements like the gi belt, clothing, headgear, sandals, folding fans, martial arts weapons, just not tattoos. To me, the whole 3x tattoo monk, was created because of the lack of creativity in creating arcane enhanced items for a monk - it was an allowed excuse to give monks some other method of arcane enhancement. Thematically, it just doesn't fit. But don't mind me, and my preconceptions... I'd look at the casting levels of the various tattoo enhancements you desire, and put them at a level comparable to it's casting level. I pointed to my Way of the Yakuza supplement, simply because empowered tattoos applied at differing levels might help guide your goals here. Some tattoos are similar, while some are not. PDF for print is usually set for 300 ppi, but PDF for download is generally 96 ppi. At 100% scale (scaled for the PDF) it looks fine, however enlarging a 96 dpi image it's going to get grainy, as the resolution is just not there. I run Gamer Printshop, and I run into these problems all the time. While my large format printer does a better job at printing enlarged low resolution images, I can always do a better job with a high resolution file. So it's not getting grainy in PSE, rather it's already grainy to start, just not so bad printing at 8.5 x 11. It's only noticable when you enlarge the image. Ideally, you want the files from a Map Folio, that has true scale versions of the map. While still 96 ppi, the map is already scaled to full size in inches. Extracting this and printing will get a nice print. I have rules for arcane tattoos in Rite Publishing's Way of the Yakuza, as well as rules regarding the wizard creating the tattoos, with suggested tattoos and tattoo spells. Since my Kaidan setting is sbout authenticity to a large degree, I didn't want to allow tattoo wearing as something that anybody does. As in Japan, tattoos are considered taboo by most people. Only in the yakuza is tattoo wearing condoned. It's fine that you want your fantasy monk to wear tattoos, it fits 3.5 concept of a tattoo monk. For me the suspension of disbelieve especially for an oriental setting, is gone with monks wearing tattoos. Regarding your GM's determination that there is no way for your paladin to make things right again. Apparently this is GM fiat, it's not by the rules of the game. A paladin can certainly, always atone for breaking his code of conduct. All you need to do is an Atonement spell, and perhaps some in game atoning in some RP way and your paladin would be right as rain. In fact in this situation, it's not the paladin that needs atoning, rather your GM needs to atone for unforgiving behavior. (I would be looking for another GM to play with, as the best fix for the problem.) As I've said, I've actually created a paladin to work up to 12th level, then fall in grace to become an Anti-Paladin. While the character didn't know he was going to fall, I as a player planned it all along. If this is what you want to do and it's alright with your GM and other players then do so. However, nothing, including GM, mechanics, situation will ever force my paladin to fall from grace, it is always a players choice. If an encounter means Devils are torturing the paladin, then that's what happens, but there is no reason the paladin has to lie, expose his allies, or other means to fail as a paladin. If a paladin does so, it's due to player choice only, no other reason. And there shouldn't be a reason for this to be forced by anything in game. Hippygriff wrote:
Well, then I mis-phrased my posts. Sometimes its difficult to convey exact thinking in one's words - so you misunderstood what I meant. I personally don't roleplay torture to the point that it breaks my characters beliefs. It wouldn't happen unless I wanted my character to break. Hippygriff wrote:
I've already stated that if there is a mechanical adjustment in your game because of torture, then use it - I totally agree with you that such a mechanic could/should exist that creates complications for being tortured. That makes total sense. Even then, however, gain a stat loss, and do not lie, what's the problem? I've played paladins that wouldn't break. And I've played paladins that did break, and fall from grace - both are fun options for paladins to play. Enjoy the game the way you want it. I think the real challenge would be to test your code of conduct in the face of losing your allies, or losing a friend as the punishment to sticking to code. Not some limited negative affect for torture. If your parents/friend/mentor will disown you because you won't break from a certain point of view - that loss is greater and more real than some short term duration that you have to face physical torture. That's a challenge, torture is momentary, loss of a friend can be permanent and far more devastating - and in-game affecting. There's truth in that, but even top end role playing doesn't mean you have to break in torture. It's almost as if you're saying one cannot be tortured while maintaining one's code of conduct. Certainly not everyone can do that, but PCs are heroes, they should/could be able to take it, and not have to lie nor bring harm to their allies. The point is other than possibly dying, your character isn't going to be permanently affected by torture. So why should it force you to break your code? Or why should it even be a problem? It might be worthy of some developer to create a Torture mechanic that affects Will Saves in situations like Paladins under torture and duress that should mechanically affect the game. That seems reasonable to me. But without such a mechanic - nothing is forcing your paladin to lie, no matter what the condition, torture or not. Now a non-paladin good aligned person should be perfectly free to lie to any non-good being, but they aren't subject to a code of conduct. Some paladins are (regarding lying), so they shouldn't lie ever, unless you want the fun to fall as a paladin (that can be fun too.)
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