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Pathfinder Society Member. 13,471 posts (17,546 including aliases). 1 review. 1 list. 1 wishlist. 2 Pathfinder Society characters. 79 aliases.


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BigDTBone wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

I was sorely let down.

Wow. I guess it's been awhile since I've read Star Trek novels. That does sound weak.


Snorter wrote:
Set wrote:
I try to do Weal & Woes, every now and then, and even my *shortest* attempt uses up all 1500 words on a single character!

Isn't that the truth.

You know you've got a good thing, when they start 'talking' to you*, in their own voices, and their schemes get more and more involved.

Oh yeah. The story of a character never really ends, there's just the point where you stop writing.

Finding that point is hard for me.

Also the point where I stop re-writing and improving stuff and accept that it's 'good enough.' :)


thejeff wrote:

Oh, since you mentioned superhero games, not all concepts work there either. The one I mentioned where the GM went with it and it ruined the game was a superhero game. And partly my fault. The game proposal, as I heard it, was child proteges of 1950's superheroes. I played a demon mageling adopted and being taught by that world's Sorcerer Supreme equivalent. Another player was playing a ninja with some complicated background I don't remember. What the other players heard for the proposal and what the GM intended had much more of an emphasis on the 1950's 4-color, code-approved, straight-forward heroics. And that's what the other characters were. Clashed with our two gritty 90s style near anti-hero characters.

GM absolutely should have shot that character down. Didn't fit the theme.

And yet, that doesn't sound like a 'race / class' problem, so much as a tone or theme issue, one that would not be solved by restricting race / class, but by encouraging role-play appropriate to the tone of the game.

If your mage was played up as a more noir-ish stage magician (secretly using real magic from his dark heritage), I feel like that might have made more of a difference than whether or not your character had supernatural ties (since it's entirely possible to use supernatural stuff along the lines of 'monster comics' or even with a Lovecraftian moody feel).

Just like the 'forbid playing evil characters' or 'don't allow Paladins because PVP' trope, a problem player is going to be a problem player, whether you allow them to play an undead assassin, a Paladin or a furry fox-person. The race-you-hadn't-already-put-in-your-setting seems less about improving a game than picking one thing (unplanned races) and labeling it as 'the problem' with problem players.

I do get that sometimes what make a good painting are the colors that you don't use, and that making a stew with every single ingredient in your kitchen is a great way to create inedible swill, but it's not like your players are going to be playing *every single race and class* available to them, all at once. If you want a limited number of races to avoid 'cantina,' it's easy enough to remove races that nobody wants to play. (Someone wants to play a gnoll, and *nobody* wants to play a dwarf and you feel like all the core races + gnoll = cantina? Bang. There are no dwarves in this iteration of the setting. Your 'cantina' hang up is solved.)


Mikaze wrote:
Snorter wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
The wordcount monster is the worst monster of them all I swear

For the first time ever, I came in under the cutoff.

Had to go back and add something.

Every other time, I've been way over, and trying to shave off redundant words.

I am honestly envious. I think I actually got worse about going over. D:

Same. I try to do Weal & Woes, every now and then, and even my *shortest* attempt uses up all 1500 words on a single character!


Maybe my brain just works weird after growing up on the formulas of Villains & Vigilantes (carrying capacity, IIRC, was 1/10 Str cubed + 1/10 End x a number that is equal to half your weight in pounds) and the thrice-damned Energy Allocation forms of Star Fleet Battles (oy, I usually lost it by the time I got to ECM/ECCM and figuring out what was left for Reserve Warp), but I always found the Core rulebook to be a snap, with a nice order-of-operations layout.

I know that's a left-handed defense, at best, to say it's not as hard as a very hard thing. :)

Some of the criticisms seem to be 'It doesn't work the way I would have done it.' I feel that that way myself sometimes (and there seem to be times the developers themselves have wildly different ideas about core assumptions, like whether or not negative energy is evil). And yet the answer is the same as it is when I'm out in the world dealing with other people, who almost universally seem to do things in the way that made sense to them, and not the way that makes sense to me. Welcome to planet Earth, I guess. Hot dogs do not taste the way they would taste if I made them, as well.

That being said, some of the stuff in the Bestiary didn't feel as intuitive, for layout, on the other hand. The format of 'everything you need to know is buried in the back of the book, with the stuff you need to read the entries hidden after the built-your-own-monster-guidelines...' Stuff like the celestial / fiendish creatures no longer understanding celestial/fiendish, and therefore being uncontrollable, except via the non-class skill of Handle Animal (maybe), and the spell write up indicating that the writer of the Core book had no idea that was the case, since it describes being able to give the summoned creatures instructions, makes me wonder if the Bestiary writer was aware of what those templates had been invented to do in the first place.


Rathendar wrote:

I am curious now, what positive energy effect deals damage to the living?

(not snarky!)

Alignment Channel and Elemental Channel allow you to harm living outsiders (of the designated alignment subtype or elemental subtype) with positive energy, or even to heal living outsiders with negative energy.

Exposure to the positive energy plane can also harm or kill living creatures.

In 3.5, the Ravid was a monster that harmed living creatures it struck by using positive energy. Just as any medicine, in high enough doses, is toxic, it seems that positive energy can be quite dangerous. (And, given that it encourages life and growth, it would seem an ideal way to cause tumorous growths or deformities, cause infestations and parasites to reproduce out of control in a living host, greatly accelerate the effects of disease, etc.)


LazarX wrote:
If we go to Expanded Universe, Star Wars wins it hands down for having the most variety of stories not featuring the usual canon characters, especially in the Dark Horse productions. Although I will give IGW credit for an excellent Dr. Who/Trek crossover in "Assimilation Squared".

The Star Trek 'expanded universe' of the novels (hundreds of novels...), has some great stories, but the 'third-party' writers seem to be held to a much tighter standard of what they are allowed to do with the characters and Federation setting.

The Star Wars novels and stuff, by comparison, have some stuff that is pretty wild and exciting, such as the Timothy Zahn novels, which I prefer to much of what George Lucas himself has done with his setting.

Given what a reputation Lucas has for being a micro-manager of the setting and property, the Star Trek novels feel much more like people playing with someone else's toys, while the best of the Star Wars novels seem less afraid to do some drastic things (like kill off main characters or portray the marriage and children of classics or whatever).

Still, what I said upthread, especially for the core movie / TV show properties holds true for me. Farmboys can be heroes (in both cases), but only if they are the son of a queen and midichlorian Jesus in Star Wars universe. Trek always felt like the heroes were more working class and egalitarian, with 100% less 'space princesses.' (Although Picard flew against that, seeming pretty aristocratic...)


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thejeff wrote:
"What is so awesome about it that it's worth reworking the campaign so that it really does fit?"

What needs to be reworked, 'though? The object of running a game is giving people a chance to share some fun for a couple of hours, not for one frustrated wanna-be author to sit four other people down and tell them a story, and refuse to allow anyone to play any character that I don't pre-approve as existing in this story I'm telling them.

There is no 'setting' outside of the group fun we are having. If the setting is the Forgotten Realms, and somebody wants to play a member of the Sueloise Brotherhood, or an Eberron Changeling, then, bang, so it happens. If we decide to play a vampire game, and one dude wants to play a werewolf, there are balance issues, because vampires are the ugly stepsisters of the World of Darkness, and either they need to be toned up (or at least have their non-daylight operations rule negated, so that the werewolf player doesn't spend half the game waiting for the sun to set and the vampire players don't spend half the game waiting for the werewolf's daytime adventures to end). 'Theme' is not an issue. We aren't a boy band, and everybody doesn't have to dance in lockstep. We're more like the Village People, one dude playing a cop does not preclude someone else playing a cowboy.

Again, I'm spoiled by superhero games, where the players can literally say 'I'm playing the avatar of an Egyptian god I just made up' and I, as GM, do not have to GAF that Egyptian gods may not have existed in the setting I'm using until this very second. It's the work of a second for me to say 'Okay.' It's not like I have to go invent an Egyptian pantheon to go along with that character origin, or rearrange any pre-existing gods I've got going on or anything.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Mythic JMD031 wrote:
I blame Cosmo for Alexander Augunas misspelling Cobra Commander.
I meant exactly what I said.

Now I blame Cosmo for that image of cobras that *are* seen / found in underwear...


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Generally, if I'm running a game, I'm running it because my players want to play it, and so anything they want to play, whether it fits a pre-constructed setting, or my own personal tastes, is on the table as long as it isn't unbalanced in a way that would make the game unfun for some or all of them (when *everyone* wants to play something unbalanced, like our old 'monster campaigns' where ogre magi was a perfectly valid player race, then, it's on!).

We do play a lot of superhero games, where a robot, an alien, a demigod and a mutant sorceress are perfectly acceptable 'party members.' (Then again, that's not an impossible party to see in Alkenstar or Numeria...)


Mythic JMD031 wrote:
I blame Cosmo for Alexander Augunas misspelling Cobra Commander.

I blame everyone for the existence of Cosmo Commander and his evil clown-snake army of mercenaries.


MMCJawa wrote:
hhhmm...could we just end up seeing "Psychic" versions of the primal dragons then?

Psychic dragons that are more explicitly tied around psychic / occult abilities, such a telekinesis, telepathy (dreams?), spiritualism, etc. would probably be both more original and more thematic than random gemstone dragons with random not-terribly-'psychic' powers, like spitting up exploding gemstones or dehydrating breath weapons.

A spiritualist dragon might be surrounded by poltergeist like manifestations that randomly trip, bull rush, reposition, steal from and / or disarm people, while a dream dragon might cause those present to suffer waking dreams (hallucinations), and a pyrokinetic dragon might cause everyone in the area to catch on fire.

But that's assuming that there needs to be 'psychic dragons' (or psychic linnorms, with telepathic or pyrokinetic or whatever death curses, which might be at least a smidge more original) at all. Some other beastie could be slotted into that niche. Rather than have psychic outsiders or psychic dragons, perhaps there could be more focus on aberrations (a plethora of variant aboleth?) or undead or some other creature type. I'm not sure the game is screaming out for yet more devils, demons, etc. with psychic powers instead of spell-like abilities.


Anthony Adam wrote:
Anyone else feeling the deadline burn or am I the last to still be at the grindstone for submission?

You mean you aren't already halfway through your first Ustalav article for the next one? :)


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DoubleGold wrote:

Star Wars is better.

I have zero like for Star Trek. Every time I try to like Star Trek I see it as a rip-off lesser version of Star Wars and far less interesting in comparison.

It's totally okay to prefer one to the other, but referring to Star Trek (1966) as a 'rip off' of Star Wars (1977) makes me wonder if your interactions with linear time are perhaps a bit misaligned.

This just in, the Eurythmics totally ripped off that Marilyn Manson song, Sweet Dreams!


Brandon Hodge wrote:
As we were putting Occult Adventures together, I championed my previous work with vril for inclusion.

[tangent] The Vril stuff in Deep Magic is amazing! As a sort of 'primal magical manipulation,' pre-spells and rituals, more throwing energy around, it's kind of perfect (and kind of flies against the Realms standard of 'magic was better / more powerful / more advanced thousands of years ago.' [/tangent]


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Gnomezrule wrote:
They seem to really hate people who build houses too or dog houses.

Well, dog houses, obviously. Who needs a house scent, a 50 ft. move and a natural trip attack? Once they start learning Tricks, it's all over.


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Kain Darkwind wrote:
We need to nerf houses.

Don't forget that they only cost 3 BP to create a non-specific number of them, and reduce your unrest by 1.

I'd recommend building a house with bricks imported from the infernal pit, giving it the fiendish template to make it a bit more fire resistant.


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Dragon78 wrote:
It would be cool to have some new types of Homunculi, especially a type that looks completely human.

The Semblance of Transfusion alchemical item in the Alchemy Manual (p 15), could perhaps be made permanent at 10x the cost (peeking at the ideas on p 14 for an appropriate cost).

Combining constructs with 'psychic magic;'
Some sort of dedicated psychic constructs, basically ill wishes (or benevolent 'guides'?) given form and spun off from a psychic's mind, and set to an area (sort of a psychic haunt), or a person (as a malevolent presence that can mess with your dreams, or cause you to see things, or experience strange emotional storms, or even telekinetically rearrange your gear, tie your bootlaces together, loosen your armor straps, etc.), or even oneself (separating off a portion of one's mind to keep watch when one's conscious mind is asleep, or to give you a second chance to notice things, or just a +2 to rolls as it 'Aids Other' on your mental skill checks) could be neat.


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Guy St-Amant wrote:
Odraude wrote:
Not really sure what that has to do with the occult... did you mean to post that in Mikaze's thread?
That it can spark thinking, discussions and changes. Maybe something in the Bestiary.

Which would be relevant to the Bestiary. This particular discussion is as not-relevant to Occult Adventures as whether or not Paizo is providing a slanted view of communist philosophies, or shortchanging atheism.

While I'm sure there's precedent for a class or system based around how monstrous (or merely unattractive) a character (female or male) can get, as a way of incentivizing or promoting unattractive / unsexy characters, perhaps based around creature grafts or body scarification or a slow progression into another creature type (such as a half-dragon or hag) or a character whose powers are dependent upon age category (encouraging playing of older characters, and not parties of hot young twenty-somethings), that, as I mentioned earlier about the Bloatmage, isn't really addressing the 'all X characters tend to be sexy,' so much as making an option for people to have 'fat superpowers' or 'ugly superpowers.' A class- or mechanic-based solution would hilariously miss the mark, IMO.

That said, such a mechanic / class option could be intriguing, and fit the more transformation-y/Jekyll & Hyde/Lovecraftian body horror aspects of the 'Occult' theme, and provide an excuse for some unsexy artwork (a woman halfway through a Dragon Disciple like transformation into an Aberration, via advancement of the Aberrant Bloodline Sorcerer features, frex).

But that still creates the muddled message that the only reason a female adventurer wouldn't be crazy hot, is if she gained super-powers from being ugly, which not only doesn't address the question of why all adventuring ladies have to be four-alarm babes (even if, like Feiya, that flies in the face of their backstory...), but actually kind of makes it worse by so egregiously missing the point.

Eh. It's late, and I'm cranky about the tone. I feel like someone just drove-by a bunch of threads and said 'Topic X! Discuss, my dancing minions, because I can't be bothered! Make my random proclamation topical for me!'


KingmanHighborn wrote:

First just some raw data:

** spoiler omitted **

Here's my own list, ordered by WotC product;


11 Core – Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, Wizard
3 Complete Divine – Favored Soul, Shugenja, Spirit Shaman
3 Complete Warrior – Hexblade, Samurai, Swashbuckler
3 Complete Arcane – Warlock, Warmage, Wu Jen
3 Complete Adventurer – Ninja, Scout, Spellthief
1 Dragon Magic – Dragonfire Adept
4 Player’s Handbook II – Beguiler, Dragon Shaman, Duskblade, Knight
5 Oriental Adventures – Samurai, Shaman, Shugenja, Sohei, Wu Jen
1 (+5) Dungeon Master’s Guide – Witch, Adept, Aristocrat, Commoner, Expert, Warrior
2 Heroes of Horror – Archivist, Dread Necromancer
1 Dungeonscape – Factotum
1 (+2) Eberron Campaign Setting – Artificer, Divine Adept, Magewright
3 Tome of Magic – Binder, Shadowcaster, Truenamer
2 (Warmage was already counted under CArcane) Miniature’s Handbook – Healer, Marshall, Warmage
3 Tome of Incarnum – Incarnate, Soulborn, Totemist
3 Book of Nine Swords – Crusader, Swordsage, Warblade
4 Expanded Psionics Handbook – Psion, Psychic Warrior, Soulknife, Wilder
4 Complete Psionic – Ardent, Divine Mind, Erudite, Lurk
2 Ghostwalk – Eidolon, Eidoloncer
1 Magic of Eberron – Psionic Artificer
(1) Sharn: City of Towers – Urban Adept

2 Dragonlance – Mystic, Noble
1 War of the Lance – Masters
1 Age of Mortals / Legends of the Twins – Mariners
1 Races of Ansalon – Nightstalkers

So, not counting NPC classes, I've got 65 (although some, like the DMG Witch, are squiffy at best). Plus 8 NPC classes.

And then there's all the variants in Unearthed Arcana, including the Adept, Expert and Warrior variants.

KoK, IMO, is 3rd party, like the Nyambe/Hamunaptra/Green Ronin Advanced Players Guide/etc. base classes or the Arcana Unearthed/Evolved base classes.


Necromancer wrote:

[slight tangent]

I've also noticed that mages/casters tend to be either older average-sized men, sexy women, or some tiny race/creature...why can't we see any tall and thick Ulfen types in very civilized caster roles?
[/slight tangent]

If point-buy is the only way it's done, then it might make sense that wizards might be scrawny folk, children, elderly, etc. But with rolled-stats as an option, it's entirely possible that a wizard might have a decent Str score, and be pretty buff.

Certainly, I'm all for non-traditional appearances. Stout Dwarven wizards. Lithe (Elven?) Dex fighters. A burly half-orc 'thug' rogue.

A Rule 63 Alhazra, named Alhazred, who is all scraggly-beared, Einstein-haired and wild-eyed and very much the spitting image of a certain 'mad Arab.'


Robert Brookes wrote:
Outside of classes, what other kinds of things do you think would be fitting in Occult Adventures? The title itself evokes a pretty broad landscape, painted in with the boundaries of pulp-era mysticism. When you veer away from the new classes being introduced, what sort sof alternative systems, gameplay mechanics, or flavor would you be interested in seeing?

Something to do with non-undead spiritualism (in that not all souls that leave their bodies turn into undead, such as a person using astral projection or magic jar). Ghostwalk was the last product that dealt with that sort of thing in any depth (although it did use undead rules for much of it, only skipping the whole 'dying makes both your body and your soul turn corrupt and evil' thing).

Divination, from Tarot (Harrow) reading to séances and mediums seem a big part of occultism, as well as hermetic practices and philosophical alchemy (more about purifying the self and less about Jekyll & Hyde or throwing explosives around).

More about the corners of magic, the supernatural and the 'weird,' like golem creation and homunculi, warding circles, ley lines, places of power, sacred numerology, astrological conjunctions, and the properties to affect supernatural forces of such mundane things as silver mirrors or lines of salt or powdered silver, perhaps even incantation-like effects, magics used by non-spellcasters to make deals with devils or get themselves attacked by hounds of tindalos, etc. less about standard spells and class abilities.


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Sissyl wrote:
Asmodeus has certain views about women too, right? Which doesn't mean women can't be clerics, but I would think there is a pretty serious glass ceiling.

Asmodeus is *said* to be a misogynist, but it seems like the rulers of nations or city states under his sway are women (rulers of Cheliax and Korvosa, for instance).

Much like chatter about Rahadoum being punished by the gods with a terrible drought, and yet being, on the map, the greenest and most fertile land on it's latitude, some of what is said about Golarion seems to be in contradiction to what's actually going on in Golarion...


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Dragon78 wrote:
Has anyone seen the movie, "Push"?

Lots of neat stuff in that. Both Minority Report (to a lesser degree) and Next are great movies specifically for Precognition stuff. A Precognitive fighter or martial artist type could be scary. To quote a Naltorian 'PreCop', from a Legion run, "It's kind of boring, actually. Like fighting an old movie you've seen a hundred times before..."

Oddly, telepathy has gotten so mainstream, in a way, that I don't think we've had any good showings for telepathy in movies for a while.


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Ross Byers wrote:
<tinfoil>What if Cheliax ensures that Galt's revolution never ends so they have a nice cautionary tale about what happens if you try to unseat the Majestrix or fight the Hellknights? After all, if Andoran is the example, it makes revolution look a lot more attractive.</tinfoil>

I think that's so much a given that it didn't even make the Conspiracy Theories thread. :)


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Bellona wrote:
Does anyone recognise the crown on that skull which Seltyiel is holdng?

If the skull looked elfy-er, I'd say it was his father's...


What's your favorite underrated / unpopular movie?

The Numbers site has lists of movies and what they cost and what they made, and I'm always shocked to see that movies I liked, like Cowboys & Aliens, The Thirteenth Warrior, Sahara, etc. were box-office bombs...


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Barong wrote:
Like, if a half-orc worships Erastil or Cayden, human deities. Or, even more extreme, a bugbear decides to worship Shelyn. Or, going in the other direction, a human worshipping Torag, the dwarf deity.

Torag is called out as a popular god among gnomes, halflings and humans, as well as dwarves. The rest of the dwarven pantheon seem to be more dwarf-centric, but even then, it's entirely possible that a group of human mountaineers or gnomish craftsmen who live in the Five Kings Mountains might reverse Kols or Dranngvit or something.

The only race-specific gods I recall being overly picky about the race of their followers are one of the elven gods (Findeladra, IIRC, who is specifically the goddess of elven craftsmanship, and not 'humans who like to cosplay as elves and craft stuff'), the serpentfolk god Ydersius (who is a serpentfolk supremacist and hates humans, after one [spoiler alert] cut his head off), etc.

Even the demon lord Anghazan, who's pretty much 'god of apes,' has human followers, as do the dragon gods Apsu and Dahak.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
The Akashic class makes a dandy Oracle mystery, if you don't want yet another separate base class -- that's what I did with it in my homebrew. All the SLA-type abilities they get can be turned into mystery spells instead, and you then spread the other class features out as revelations.

Ooh, that's a neat idea. Putting the Akashic knowledge / memory features as Revelations on the already-workable Oracle chassis is brilliant.

Spell Templates and Dire Weapons are two more things I liked about Arcana Unearthed.


Alceste008 wrote:
Being a huge story fan myself, the climb from 20 to 80 in AoC was very rough at times.

Ha! I didn't know it was up to 80! I think 50 was the end level when they lost me. I just loved those first 20 levels in Tortuga. Solid story for a good eight hours, and then bang, nothing until level 30, and the 'class story' for 30 was 15 minutes of 'go to some cave and kill some dudes.' I was very disappointed!


thejeff wrote:
I'd like to see more of those kinds of things, but you're not really describing iconics here. We already have Iconic wizards, clerics, fighters, etc.

As I don't yet know the six new classes coming up, I used wizard, cleric, fighter, etc. as examples of what sorts of character types would be neat to see.


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Prince of Knives wrote:
blahpers wrote:
Int-witches still bug me a little, though I see what they're going for and why they didn't want yet another Charisma-based arcane caster. But screw it, at least there should have been options for a Charisma-based witch.
Nah bro. Wisdom.

Yes to all.

Witches could have a tripartite option to follow the way of the Bell (Cha), Book (Int) or Candle (Wis), using the selected stat to govern their bonus spells, and spell and Hex DCs. (With the 'book' being as metaphorical as the bell and candle, a 'book' Witch would still store spells in her familiar, just like most other Witches).

Wisdom definitely feels like the most thematic to me, but I don't see any reason why someone who wants to have a Charisma based Witch shouldn't also be viable. Of the three, Intelligence feels the least on-theme, but I'm not like, opposed to it, or anything.

More options, always good.


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ChrisLKimball wrote:
There are already alot of shirtless male iconics so I'd like to stay away from that. A youngish iconic and an elderly female make sense. I would definitely like to see a "thicker iconic" someone towards the higher weight scale.

I know that drawing chain mail is a pain in the butt, but I'd like to see more characters (male and female) wearing chain shirts, breastplates and / or leather armor, as well as perhaps some crazy fool wearing one of the armor types that nobody ever wears anyway, like banded or scale or splint. (I've honestly seen more characters wearing dragonscale or ironwood breastplates, than banded or scale or splint! Indeed, the last time I saw scale armor was in 2nd edition, when Sea Elven Scale was a poor man's Elven Chainmail for your armored wizard spellcasting needs!)

A young wizard apprentice or acolyte cleric or witch could be interesting (although some wag will decry it as a Harry Potter nod, as if there were never young adventurers like Ged (Wizard of Earthsea) or Pug (Magician) or the kid from the Dragonslayer movie before J.K. Rowlings...).

And yeah, a portly Caydenite cleric, or a stout Trapsmith rogue (not all rogues are acrobats!), or even a burly Fighter could be something new. Or just throw expectations out the window and have an overweight Paladin! Anything but a bloatmage. There's no more need for a fat NPC to have 'fat superpowers' than there is for a black one to have 'black superpowers' or a gay one to have 'gay superpowers.'

Personally I'd like an exceptionally tall iconic (as a person that exceeds racial maximums I feel that blatant heightism in Pathfinder deserves some notice).

It might add to the 'our elves are aliens!' aesthetic (along with the dead black eyes) if a small sub-population of elves (perhaps those 'fresh through the gate' from Sovyrian) average seven feet tall!


Random followup, now that I've had time to sleep on it.

Doesn't have to be a Doppleganger, specifically. The Ranger corpse could be half-formed and twisted (giving the impression that something was deforming/mutating/transforming him when it killed him, when actually it's more like that scene from John Carpenter's Thing movie, where people find a corpse of an alien that was frozen halfway through attempting to shapeshift into a person to impersonate them). Some sort of Lovecraftian ooze-beastie could be the culprit, dropping on a creature and paralyzing it with Dex-damaging venom, and then slowly turning into it (and then devouring it?). It died before the action was complete, and the Ranger got away before the Dex damage finished paralyzing him.

This also might help keep the Ranger alive, since he'll have positive hit points (if no Dex), and not be subject to a friendly fire insta-kill if someone in the party does something bone-headed like chuck alchemist's fire near his incapacitated body during whatever final encounter is to occur. (Which sounds *exactly* like something my players would do...)

The Ranger player, when he returns, can be messed with as well, as you plant hints that the shapeshifter laid some sort of egg inside him, or he could have odd 'alien dreams' that suggest that the deformed 'monster corpse' his friends found might really have been the body of their friend, and that he might indeed be the shapeshifting ooze-alien, having taken on not only the form, but also *the memories* of the person it killed...

(All just side-effects of the neurotoxin, surely! Especially since the player probably didn't sign up to play a very confused monster that thinks it is his original character!)


Lord Snow wrote:
I got tired of MMOs after playing WoW for, like, 6 levels. I don't really care about computer games as a social activity and the gameplay of MMOs is not interesting to me. Further, I find that a computer game where your goal is to collect more stuff and level up to be very uninteresting. I just don't see the point. I need a story.

Star Wars: The Old Republic has an individual storyline for each of the classes, and then further storylines for each of the companion NPCs that you travel with. A few quest lines, such as the Gree Enclave quests on Coruscant, also have a bit of story built in. It's nothing quite like a tabletop game, for story, but's miles above anything you'll see in most other MMOs.

Age of Conan had a great storyline, for the first 20 levels, and then turned into a vast empty wasteland for the next 30 levels. I ended up making five different characters up to 20-ish, but never could 'max out' one of them, as it was so boring afterwards!


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They find the body of the Ranger, dead, and a trail leading away. Cue shock and outrage! (Might want to text the Ranger player and let him know what you're planning, lest one of your players text him that you killed his PC and avoidable drama / misunderstanding hijinks ensue!)

His gear appears to have been pillaged, and, if they think to examine the means of his death, the wounds are consistent with whatever sort of weapons he carried.

The blood trail leads to a cave in which they will find signs that some wounded beast dragged itself here to hole up, the Ranger having apparently gotten some good hits before falling. An encounter with scavenger animals that have also followed the blood trail ensues (wolves, jackals, giant vultures, some sort of vermin, whatever suits the area).

Entering the cave to get revenge (and / or recover their companion's gear, depending on their motivation), the PCs finally discover their Ranger companion, having retreated here and then passed out after getting in a fight with a Doppleganger that assumed his form, and then died (the body they discovered).

(If he's got an animal companion, he might be unconscious and have been dragged here by said companion, which is guarding his body, which has stabilized and is in no danger, although the party might have to finesse their way past the angry animal companion to reach their friend, as the beastie is not allowing anyone close...)


34) Merge with every other member of your species into a conjoined hive-entity, a la the Axiomite Godmind, or Marvel's Stranger or Eternal Uni-Mind.

35) Seize control of a plane of existence, or the center of power of a deity or former deity, such as the central section of Axis that was once Aroden's domain, or the Peacock Angel's domain in Heaven.


aetherwisp wrote:

Demigods that could be featured in such a book include:

  • primal inevitables
  • protean lords
  • the axiomite god-mind
  • psychopomp ushers
  • infernal dukes (yes, Lorthact, I see you there)
  • kyton demagogues
  • rakshasa immortals
  • elemental lords
  • the Eldest
  • I would definitely love to see more axiomite, inevitable, protean and / or psychopomp demigods, as those would be the most usable for clerics, paladins, inquisitors, etc. in 'no evil allowed' sorts of games.

    (Although kyton, rakshasa, etc. demigods would be useful for evil NPC clerics.)

    Oracle mysteries relevant to protean, inevitable/axiomite, formian, etc. interests would also make sense, for any factions that either don't have clerics, or have both oracles and clerics.


    Artifice, Community, Law and Knowledge seem like logical choices for Axiomite Godmind Domains.

    But yeah, I'd love to see something more official along those lines, as well as Domains for whatever passes for Archdevils/Demon Lords/Empyreals among the Proteans or Formians.

    (Or oracle Mysteries relevant to their interests, if the answer is 'that's what oracles are for.')

    Formian Inquisitors rooting out errant behavior sound *awesome.* (Or Inevitable Inquisitors, for that matter.)


    PrismaticMonk wrote:
    Anyone have a recommendation for a game (MMO or not) where I can reconnect with my cartoon characters?

    Champions Online has a pretty distinctive 'comic-book-y' visual aesthetic, but for fantasy fare, Allods Online (a free to play European game) is pretty cartoon-y, and has some fun classes (and races).


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    Jamie Charlan wrote:
    LazarX wrote:

    Psionics however is more Jean-Grey, Scanners, Mind Control, and general sci-fi and "New Age" and comic book tropes.

    Also old scripture like the Mahabharata.

    Don't let the power names in psionics throw you off; most of that stuff is ancient.

    Yup. 'The Sight,' remote viewing, foretelling the future, controlling the minds of others, communing with the dead. Most 'psionic' stuff has been around for millennia, and is currently folded into the magic system. (Whereas arcane magic, with it's spellbooks and somatic components is more hermetic and 'merely' centuries old.)

    Psychic stuff is *far* less 'sci-fi' or 'comic-book' than spells like clone or teleport or temporal stasis, or throwing mini-black holes at people (spheres of annihilation).


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    The Crusader wrote:

    This line of justification has never really held water for me. The bottom line is, no amount of editing is going to stop a DBAG-DM or a crass, vulgar player from making someone feel uncomfortable at the table. Sacred Calistrian Prostitutes, you say???

    Or the 'Whore Queens' or Arazni 'the Harlot Queen,' and the probably unintentional association between women-in-power and hookers. Or a drink named 'Whore's Breakfast' in Cities of the Inner Sea and a drug named 'Harlot Sweets' in Rivals Guide. Pretty selective woman-friendly language, there.

    I'm all for an inclusive setting, but when 'inclusive' is being used to *subtract* options and make the world smaller, that's pretty much the opposite of 'inclusive,' as I understand it.

    Then again, everyone draws the line in different places. For some, evil folk are robots, or the scorpion from the fable, incapable of making terribly short-sighted choices that eliminate any possibility that they could ever actually succeed at anything (making the good 'heroes' who defeat them kind of meaningless and unheroic, since all good has to do to triumph over evil is sit around and wait for them all to betray each other to death...).

    I'd like both evil and good to be a bit less monolithic, and for it to be possible for two people of good conscience to disagree.

    Save the inflexible codes of behavior punched onto cards and inserted into their brains for Android Paladins.


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    Rysky wrote:
    Tacticslion wrote:
    Heh. "It is clear who would make the better homemaker." indeed. :)
    OCD man, OCD.

    Oh yeah. The local comics/gaming store loves when I come in and browse, since I always end up organizing the gaming books on the shelves.

    'Why are the adventures mixed in with the player's companions? And nothing's organized! It's like everything gets shoved into the first open shelf space or something...'


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    W E Ray wrote:

    If we PCs succeed then Kintargo remains wholly Chelaxian. ("Chellish" is some dumb-sounding sandwich spread, not sure who in Paizo thought it was appropriate to say "Chellish" instead of the correct, "Chelaxian.") If we the PCs fail then Kintargo gains its independence.

    That's what the AP SHOULD be!

    Rebellion against the lawful Majestrix? Do you people want Galt? This is how you get Galt!


    Wolfgang Rolf wrote:

    From what I understood its basically used to buff feats that you have, and at the moment Fighters have the highest number of feats, so in a sense fighters will get the most use out of this system, but the question is how many feats does this fatigue pool effect? Will it effect Fighter only feats? I think its a decent idea, it doesn't address all the problems the fighters have but its something.

    If it works similarly to the Book of Experimental Might II's options, where Fighters can 'boost' the effects of the feats they already have, in ways that non-Fighters cannot, that could be neat, as it solves the issue of a Fighters 'class abilities' being 'more feats' by making those 'more feats' worth more, and unlock other options, for the Fighter.


    DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
    Oh boy! The Ethereal plane is finally going to be interesting, it had been largely ignored in favor of the Shadow Plane and the First World.

    True! The astral and ethereal planes have been mostly ignored for quite some time, so it's interesting to see some development there.


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    the Queen's Raven wrote:
    I know everyone is pointing out the differences between psionic and psychic, but in the original Pathfinder campaign setting book half elves were said to have special connection with crystals. This was due to their dual minds leaving them more open to psionics. But crystals are also tied closely with the occult and new age mystics. So the question is, will this idea resurface? And in what way?

    Crystals remain a thing with elves, through the focus of one of their gods, Yuelral, IIRC. The god seems focused on both druidic and arcane magic, primarily, as well as jewelers, gems and crafting stuff out of natural materials (which seems to be 'non-metal,' since, as usual, the definition of 'natural' and 'unnatural' seems to be whatever the speaker wants to be, and for these people, naturally occurring ore you pull from the earth are 'unnatural' and skins you rip off of animals you killed are 'natural').


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    DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

    I know this is a bit of a tangent but I'm hoping there might be some inspiration from the Avatar: The Last Airbender/Legend of Korra series.

    Terrakinesis (Moving rock, earth, metal)
    Pyrokinesis (Electrokinesis, Spontaneous Combustion)
    Aerokinesis (Moving air, floating etc)
    Hydrokinesis (Moving, freezing water, blood)

    While I don't really think of any of that but pyrokinesis as 'psychic,' I certainly would like to see more spells (or class options, like variant Domain / Bloodline / Specialist School powers / Hexes / Revelations / etc.) that utilized the elements of air, earth and water, so that one could make something more of an elemental themed sorcerer or wizard, without having to dip into acid, cold and electricity effects.

    Earth domain clerics and elemental earth Bloodline sorcerers flinging wee blobs of acid at people *can* be fluffed as 'earth' if you squint hard enough, but really don't feel as 'earth-y' as flinging actual rocks at people, or making the ground tremble beneath their feet, or something. Same for water domain clerics and elemental water Bloodline sorcerers using cold attacks, which aren't necessarily any more thematically 'water-y' (or even less!) than jets of steam doing fire damage. Streams of water that knock people over, or stinging salt spray that temporarily blinds/dazzles, or even a dehydration attack could be far more appropriate for a Water themed character who *isn't* a Winter Witch, or comes from Sargava or some other tropical zone.

    Third party stuff, like the Genius Guides to Air and Earth Magic, have at least picked up that ball.


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    Huh, I don't remember my post having anything to do with real world religion, but since I don't remember it, it might have been all about real world religion!

    Anywho, 'scatter your enemies' doesn't seem to equal 'genocide' to me, so I'm not a fan of the write up being changed because of a faulty assumption / straw man.


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    Samy wrote:
    Brandon Hodge wrote:
    Still very early in the class design phase--we really want to hear what everyone wants to see in this book
    psychic knife -- the focused totality of one's telepathic powers

    Cassandra Coil - a psionic whip that overloads the person struck with visions of (mostly horrible) alternate futures, the focused totality of my precognitive powers.

    Focused telekinetic bludgeons or pyrokinetic plasma lances seem to follow along that vein nicely.

    "Also, I can [beat you up] with my mind!"

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