Blackdragon's page

I'm done. WIth this post, I'm deleating all of my bookmarks to these boards. Sebastian, you've won. You have managed to drive another away with your venom. Go and celebrate with that person in your mirror. He's your biggest fan.

Sebastian wrote:

Edit2: And apologies to Blackdragon for this post. I hate discussing other posters like...

I don't think you need to worry. He came in yesterday, spammed 10 posts in less then an hour into this thread (See: BlackDragon Posts ) and then must have gotten distracted by the next shiny object. :-) I just ignored the posts for the most part. There is no reason to argue, nothing I say will sway him and I don't enjoy bickering as much as you do. :-)

Seriously, between you and Sebastian, I see one person making sarcastic exagerations of the situation to point out the ridiculousness of the whole thing, and I see one person making short-sighted comments and insults. I'm not saying either of you is helping, but at least Sebastian's funny.

They didn't cancel Dungeon or Dragon, they just reclaimed the license from Paizo for their own use. Both Dungeon and Dragon are alive and (now) well online at WotC's website.

Where does Wizards say that older customers were fools for buying previous editions of D&D?

doppelganger wrote:

Where does Wizards claim that the new books are poorly playtested, cheaply printed, or overpriced? How many D&D accessories from prior to 3.x can be used with 3.x? Did that 'force' people into 3.x?

No, the cheep printing, poor play testing and over priced thing is my statement.

To paraphrase Abe Lincoln, calling a tail a leg doesn't make it one.

The Red Death wrote:

I really find it dismissive at least, insulting at worse, when people keep repeating the "it's just a game" mantra. That's the case for you? Great! But don't talk to me about what's important and not important in my life. This hobby is important in my life... because of what blackdragon said, almost exactly.

In one respect, they're right. It is 'just a game.' And the Bible (Koran, Torah, Bhagavad-Gita, whatever) is 'just a book,' a book full of fantastic images and stories that people consider important to their lives, schedule their time around and that has helped them connect with other people who share similar interests / beliefs. Some dude who restores antique cars, or collects historical books, or plays an online game could be equally wrapped up in their 'passion.'

Contrary to the jaded emo crowd, it's not actually unhealthy or 'un-cool' to *LIKE SOMETHING.* The world is not as dreary and depressing as the 'everything sucks, be somber' crowd maintains, and if a person likes something enough to get passionate about it, it's not a sign of mental instability, it's a sign of a person *not* being clinically depressed or soul-crushingly cynical.

Soccer is 'just a game.' One whose fans will violently pummel the crap out of each other. We're nowhere near that level of passion about our 'just a game,' and, a few bad apples aside, who insist on calling one faction or the other violent extremists or irrational or fanatics or fascists or sock-puppets or apologists or 'fanbois' or 'haters' or whatever, we're pretty even-keeled people.

Is it possible to take the game 'too seriously?' Probably. But, bad Tom Hanks movies aside, we aren't running around in the sewers stabbing people because we think they're 'monsters.' We aren't running around in the streets flipping over cars and setting them on fire when 'our team' loses, and comparing us to people who *do* flip out and take stuff like that a bit too seriously is just attacking fellow gamers, which is kinda lame, since...

Blackdragon wrote:

But the truth is, it isn't just a game. All of my close friends are gamers. I met my wife playing D&D. My sister and brother-in-law are both gamers, and my niece and nephew are learning how to play. The game that we play is an integral part of the social aspect of our lives. It has kept us close and in contact for decades. It is as much a part of my life as my family, my job or my faith.

Oh, I see, if you view the game as some sort of tribal value that's integral to your identity, that's totally different. Zealotry from such groups is entirely acceptable and appropriate. One thought: don't be afraid to resort to violence to defend your values. Clearly those who do not appreciate the game in the exact same manner as you are heretics and should be opposed with any and all means possible.

Must know if there will be a Sigil analog on the Neutral Plane. Or will this cleave too close to WotC's IP?

Thank god someone finally took this thread off the path of good natured ribbing and healthy community spirit and dragged it back into the neverending pile of s&!% that is the edition wars. That's just what was needed! Pat yourselves on the backs, you guys rule.

Pete Apple wrote:

It's.. a game.

Everyone, just keep repeating this...if it makes you feel any better, you can append ", I should really just relax" to it. Pete Apple speaks truth.

highsidednb wrote:

I'll keep on harping on 4e because i don't like the fact that the commercial power of hasbro/wotc is trying to force what is IMHO not D&D onto the gaming world.

How much force would you say they are using?

vance wrote:

Pete Apple wrote:

There, that's better. Old, you say? All in the Attitude, Sonny. All in the Attitude.

"It's not the age... it's the mileage"

Doesn't help that my oldest girl just had her first job interview today. Ouch!

1-up! First grandson due 8/25 from my oldest daughter. I'm already starting to shop for appropriate nerd baby clothes. (anyone have good links? more threadjacking!!)

http://www.jinx.com/minigeeks/baby/video_games/level_1_human_creeper.html?c atid=12

Sorry I don't know how to link.

vance wrote:

Sign of aging. the classic rock station in Colorado Springs decided to declare Nirvana as 'classic'. They pushed Rush into the 'oldies'... I wanted to hurt someone.

See, I think bands should be officially done before they can be classified as Oldies. If Rush is still touring (which they are), they shouldn't be Oldies yet!

Billzabub wrote:

Oh, to clarify, it has been an ongoing debate about best rock trio, so Maiden is not an option. And as far as I'm concerned, Genesis and Peter, Paul & Mary are our as well.

Sign of aging. the classic rock station in Colorado Springs decided to declare Nirvana as 'classic'. They pushed Rush into the 'oldies'... I wanted to hurt someone.

Heathansson wrote:

My analysis:
First off, I'm ernestly staying out of the whole 4e section, pretty much because I agree with Aubrey here, and argle bargling on and on about it doesn't have an angle.
I think there's fear still, on both sides.
I think the whole character of the GSL was motivated by fear.
I think the whole Edition Wars is motivated by fear of loss on both sides.
"Oh no! We lost Paizo!"
"Oh no! We lost The Mainstream Juggernaut!"
"Oh no! WOW IS the Mainstream Juggernaut!"
Fear, plain and simple.

Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering...

Russ Taylor wrote:

I happen to agree. If your answer to a missing 4E rule is "you can make one up", you aren't saying anything to defend the edition's lack of the rule. We're all aware we can make stuff up here :)

Then why is the gap a problem if it is easily remedied with a simple fix? People have been doing that since OD&D.

So why do we still see arguments on the threads? I just don't understand it. Didn't the horse bolt ages ago?

(Try and keep this nice if you can.)

(That's about as nice as I can get on this subject.)

I can't speak for everyone but I do not post out of fear. I post because I have chosen to play 4e and would love to actually talk about it.

The reason I defend 4e is simple - I have little tolerance for the active spread of disinformation that is far too often the subject of many posts in this section of Paizo's boards.

Let's be real about the original TSR barbarian for a second. It wasn't just about race. It was about recognition. The barbarian was a big muscular white guy because Conan was a big muscular white guy. I can't count the numer of times I've seen some variation of this image, even from non-caucasion artists.

As far as the scantily clad women? I feel this is cultural with Judeo Christian society. It is an ingrained fear and loathing of human sexuality and the beauty of the nude of partially clothed human form. As an artist I tend to enjoy drawing women more than men A) because Im a hetrosexual Male, And B) because the line and form of a womans body is softer (Especially when doing fantasy art.) I've worked hard to build a game world that doesn't reflect Juedo Christian norms as the default when there isn't a religious equivalent in my world. (A major pet peeve of mine is the use of crosses in fantasy art. Reaper is notorious for this in their minis.)

For spellcasters I think the number of spells spellcasters get (especially wizards and sorcerers) should be reduced, and a lot of spells should either be reduced in power or removed completely. I'm sick of wizards being able to use spells to do things fighters and rogues can do, and do them 100x better than fighters and rogues can (who needs a skill to pick locks when the wizard can just cast a spell?). Or, better yet, make a completely new magic system that makes major spellcasters more balanced with non-spellcasters. The magic system from Monte Cook's D20 World of Darkness would be very interesting.

I haven't seen how Pathfinder deals with multiclassing but if it still exists in Pathfinder it should be removed. multiclassing is way more trouble than it's worth.

It might also be worth looking at games like True 20 and Mutants & Masterminds to see if there's anything they have that can be adapted for use in Pathfinder. If paizo took all the best parts of pathfinder, 4E, M&M/True 20, and some other D20 variants and mixed in some new stuff of their own I think they'd be able to make the best version of D&D ever.

I've preordered, any word when we'll get to see a picture?

Nick Davis wrote:

What you are looking for is a blog. Say it with me: "Blog".

I support this idea. Razz, you come by here once a week and make a handful of posts which are clearly designed to piss people off. Then you disappear for another week. Please knock it off.

If you want to actually engage in conversation here, go ahead. Support your positions with cogent, non-inflammatory discussion. But you're not doing that.

Please stop polluting our messageboards. Either take part in the conversation, or don't let the door hit you on the way out.

(I remain unchanged in my desire that these messageboards be the best place anywhere on the internet to discuss 4th edition. Positive or negative.)

MarkusTay wrote:

Try the WotC boards, and more specifically, the FR boards.

They are about 90% haters over there. In fact, the largest group of anti-WotC hangs out right on there own boards.

Its a wonder I haven't been banned there yet. <evil grin>

I have been IP banned there...

And I do agree that the PfRPG Evoker trumps the Complete Arcane Warmage. I mostly just use the term "warmage" now as an idea of the archetype I'm speaking of. :)

/me renames reality.sys and presses the reset button

I think Razz is really pissed off at 4e and wizards (at times, I wasn't far from that myself)

joela wrote:

Razz wrote:

I can't seem to find one on an initial search and I am really trying to find a webpage that has forums solely dedicated to preserving 3.5E and has people that can actually post criticisms and negative comments on 4E WITHOUT getting flamed for my opinions.

Hmmm. I play 3.x, Pathfinder RPG (Alpha), and 4E. Could I participate in such a forum?

Only if that participation were limited to hatred of 4e. If you post anything that could be misconstrued as positive about the system, this would be grounds for banning. And banning is an at-will power, so it can be done as often as necessary.

I found 'Cabin Fever' to be one of the worst movies I ever seen. Everything about it screams CHEAP!!!

I was very disapointed in 'Dreamcatcher' which started out pretty creepy (with all the forest animals walking in the same direction), but ended in total crappness.

Ultradan

How about "Dead and Breakfast"? Nothing beats singing zombies.

The trick to making a good Robotech movie LA is that they have to remember that the big robots are not the main characters. I loved the series as a kid and even now (Bought the full box set) because of the human drama...Though I got to the point that uf U heard Minmei sing that F*&ing song one more time, I'd scream! It's not a good Idea to watch 36 episodes back to back.

Oh, and there had better be no opening text explanation. That is guarantied Sci-Fi movie death.

But also following this out, I'm sick of seeing surface elves played out as a "Goodly Race". Goodly how? They are imperious, self centered, racist egotists. Their cluture usually feels like Rome during the decline. "Our culture is so superior to yours!" as their society crumbles and their people go into hidding. Yuck!

I personally don't mind the idea of non evil drow. Not shining lawful good, just not all of them have to be spider worshiping sadists.

In my FR campaign I have a sect of Vhaeraun followers who have returned to the surface, and have built a society where males and females are equal. They Will still kill you at the drop of a hat, but now when they get done, they can go home to their loving family.

I went on the Internet, looking for Bella Sara players.

I found lots of sites offering Pony Girls, but my browser did not want to open some of them. When I got in, none of them seemed to like playing cards; they all wanted to run round in the woods with no clothes on, pulling little carts.

I am confused.

(NSFW warning! Though no nudity.)

http://www.zipperfish.com/quizzes/quiz/pony-or-p0rn-star/

(Sorry, I don't know how to link.)

Mha ha ha! Fixed it.

Betrayal At the House on the Hill. It a board game with some RPGelements, that by the end one of the players turns traitor and then tries to kill everyone else. Great Fun!

I think this is the hardest I've ever laughed at a post on these boards. Sebastian, I would have loved to see the look on your face when you opened that! LOL!

Me too. I about gagged the first time I vaccuumed with our and pulled up all the pet hair and gruge that our old vaccuum wasn't getting. I sing our Dyson's sucktastic (in a good way) glory.

EDIT: and to be on topic, I feel like Paizo ferments customer loyalty like good Scotch. May not be to everyone's taste, but those of us who like it, love it!

Now, if you're not already sitting down, you probably should. I haven't read any FR novels. Ever. Not a one. In 27 years of playing DnD.

I just started playing in a FR campaign just recently. I was thinking of picking up a book or 6 from the king county library just to read over the holidays. Then I saw the list... oh my..

So! What should I read first? What author is worth reading? What should I avoid? Looking for opinions and/or pointers to reviews.

Thanks!!
Pete

My personal favorites are pretty much anything by Elaine Cunninham, or Paul Kemp.

Ed Greenwood's work is good, but he's a bit of a perv, with and obsession of creepy old men hooked up with young hot women.

R.A. Salvatore has a very formulaic writing style, and avoid anything with his character Cadderly, trust me.

I personally would recommend "Blackstaff" by Steve Schend. Granted I'm biases since I'm taking a class with him right now. And I am definitely in minority when I say avoid the Salvatore stuff, I've only ever been able to complete two books by him and they were both Star Wars books. I just can't stand his writing (or Driz'zt), but I digress Steve's book is great and Blackstaff Tower can't be too terribly far behind.

Hate: Drizzt.... Salvatore should be beaten with his own books. :P

There might be some drow stuff coming up in Pathfinder. No promises. But MAYBE.

So, what makes you love the drow. You know, aside from the creuly, dark sexiness, white hair, and pointy ears. Where do you think they've been done right? What drow stuff in the past has pissed you off? What's your favorite drow city? Overall, what turns you on (or could turn you on) about the drow?

(By the by, what do you think drow eat?)

I wrote three novels, a novella, and three or four short stories about a Forgotten Realms drow. Liriel was a monster and she knew it, but she was sidetracked from conventional drow behavior by her fun-loving nature and her strong sense of curiosity. Becoming a "good drow" was never on her agenda; she adopted new approaches not so much because she believed they were right, but because her human companion believed them to be right. As time went on she got in the habit of struggling against her natural impulses, but she never lost sight of what she was.

I'm pretty fond of Liriel, but I wouldn't want to see a similar approach taken with Golarian drow. One good drow (Drizzt) was interesting because he was a societal anomaly, two (Liriel) was pushing it. It seems unlikely to me that a good drow will arise in Golarian simply because the comparison to Drizzt would be inevitable. This, on the whole, is a good thing.

It's my opinion that Golarian's drow should remain monsters: powerful, mysterious, conniving, devious, and more than a little sadistic. No good drow gods, no secret society of good-aligned drow, no ebony-skinned maidens dancing neckid under the wistful, watching stars. I'd like to see a culture that's distinctly different from Menzoberrazan. I'd definitely like to see a history that adds layers of nuance to the elf/drow animosity, and perhaps explores why drow decided to go underground rather than escape to another plane.

We have been playing since 1987 (1st edition) and I have not noticed a decline of quality among players.

We still play 2E. Though it's a bastardized version of 2E. (2E Heavily modified with house rules running 3.5 monsters, modules, and Paizo stuff.) ANd I have to say, over the years I've played with some great roleplayers (My wife and my Brother-in-law are the two best), but also In that time, I've played with some people who have a hard time "getting it". Usually when I get someone who doesn't understand Roleplaying, As a Dm, I'll pull them in and force them to roleplay. One of my pet peeves of 3.5 is Diplomacy, Bluff, and Intimidate. I think these checks are often used in place of Roleplaying. With a player who's having problems getting into the game, I will usually set them into a situation that forces them to interact with an NPC without the rest of the group. They must speak to the NPC in the first person if they want the NPC to respond to them.
I've always loved good roleplaying. I tend to be more Lenient with players who are willing to emerse themselves in their characters, giving them a looser structure to develope personality. I think that as a DM you can set up a structure where RP is the only option, but then you are risking angering players who just want to hack and slash.

Geez, how often are you gonna throw your players into pits? I mean I can see if everyone in the party was an eladrin, but taking away Feystep as an encounter power seems a bit much, and unfairly penalizing players for playing a "cool" race.

Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:

Robin Stacey wrote:

In 3e I've had characters Polymorph their allies into small animals before to cheat spell descriptions before. I'd disallow it now though.

Bag of Holding. The rest of the party rides around inside the bag.

I had my players try that. But they really didn't pay attention to the math.

** spoiler omitted **

Robin Stacey wrote:

I guess the problem with pit traps and Eldarin isn't so much how deep they are, but how long/wide they are. It'll take a 26' long pit trap to make an Eldarin stop in his tracks. Of course, if they don't spot it they'll fall in just like anyone else - then if it's less than 25' deep they'll just teleport right out again!

One quick note - I've had an email from one of my players already asking if their Eldarin Wizard can buy a mirror (ALSO not in the PHB equipment list!!) so they can teleport 'round corners. I kid you not. And that's AFTER we've nerfed it to Daily.......

What I haven't seen addressed is how Fey Step applies to Backstab...4E does still have backstab, right?

I guess the problem with pit traps and Eldarin isn't so much how deep they are, but how long/wide they are. It'll take a 26' long pit trap to make an Eldarin stop in his tracks. Of course, if they don't spot it they'll fall in just like anyone else - then if it's less than 25' deep they'll just teleport right out again!

One quick note - I've had an email from one of my players already asking if their Eldarin Wizard can buy a mirror (ALSO not in the PHB equipment list!!) so they can teleport 'round corners. I kid you not. And that's AFTER we've nerfed it to Daily.......

Blackdragon wrote:

Right, this is a race that could conquer almost any race due to the fact that they wouldn't need seige technology in warfare.

using sticky tabs to mark pages
I see people using tabs on every kind of reference book that exists, just as I see people not using them. This is an utter non-issue.

I agree - but people are using that non-issue as an excuse for the PHB's poor layout.

What about some 3.5 races?

What about Warforged? They don't need to eat, sleep, and never get exhausted. How is any nation supposed to defend against an army of them? But, they do exist in Eberron, and there really aren't any nations that the warforged control (I'm excluding the Mournland here for obvious reasons).

What about Changelings? They can simply change their shape to assume anyone's identity? Why haven't they murdered all the noble's in the world and assumed their identities and taken control? Seems like it'd be easy. Pose as a chamber maid, learn the mannerisms of the lord in question, kill, swap places, rinse repeat.

I'm sure you could take any number of races - hell, especially some monstrous races - and include them in these types of scenarios.