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Since we now know flurry is (at least for the present) simply TWF the question is to be asked does using a heavier than light weapon on the off-hand (which Flurry still apparently has) cause you to take higher penalties than on the chart, or do monks actually get to squeeze by with the same penalties regardless of weapon?
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On this same topic I have a question:
If flurry is changed to this ruling, can unarmed strikes serve as off-hand weapons for a monk wielding a one-handed weapon in the other hand, or does the governing text from the monk class still apply?
From [b]unarmed strike[b]: . . . A monk's attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may make unarmed attacks with this hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes.
The text bluntly says that there is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed; does this mean that if a monk uses unarmed strikes in combination with a monk weapon in a flurry of blows, the unarmed strike must be the primary weapon?
Master Arminas
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I figure we cant assume anything anymore and since when flurry was written all weapons were light or treated as light its important to know if using a temple sword or crusaders flurry for a longsword or bastard sword should follow normal rules except for damage(since it is stated tht monks always use 1x str in a flurry regardless of which hand is used.)
And even if using a two-handed weapon, the Strength mod remains the same.
Master Arminas
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Another question: if this change goes through, can the monk select feats that have as one of their prerequsites Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, or Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (depending on whether he is level 1-7, 8-14, and 15+, respectively), provided that the monk meet the other prerequisites of the feat in question?
For example, can a 5th level monk select Double Slice or Two-Weapon Defense since he effectively possesses Two Weapon Fighting and they have no additional prerequsites?
Master Arminas
Actually its called out that you always use full str when flurrying even when making attacks with the off hand. Thats what made me wonder.
He wouldnt need double slice thats built in. But this could change how PA works if you indeed now have an off hand.
There are no primary, secondary, or off-hand weapons while flurrying. Flurry of Blows is simply an extra number of attacks at a penalty, no different than Rapid Shot is for arrows.
Well, except that you can't use the same weapon for every attack in a flurry. Rapidshot lets you use the same bow, making what you hold in your offhand a moot point.
There are no primary, secondary, or off-hand weapons while flurrying. Flurry of Blows is simply an extra number of attacks at a penalty, no different than Rapid Shot is for arrows.
But TriOmegaZero, there must be, if the developers are going with their original intent of making flurry based completely on the two-weapon fighting chain! After all, the text of flurry of blows in the monk class doesn't tell how much of a penalty is applied: only the table does. And since text trumps table, and flurry is now linked directly to TWF, doesn't the TWF text trump the Monk table on the maximum penalties?
Or, perhaps they could make another exception that has flurry be exactly the same as two-weapon fighting, almost.
Master Arminas
Nothing in SKR or JB's post indicate that you can flurry with a single weapon.
They even point out that IUS isnt a single weapon you cant punch 7 times you can however punch 3 and kick 4 and your amulet count for all of them but if you have MW cast on one fist you cant use it for all of your attacks or even for just the ones with the best chance of hitting.
You must have missed the vitriolic debate in the other thread, TOZ.
Sean K Reynold's wonderful new idea that changes the monk for the worse
We have all apparently been running our monks wrong for these past few years. Flurry is supposed to work exactly like TWF, except with exceptions. Because it isn't fair that a monk can flurry with a single weapon when every other two-weapon fighter has to buy two. Read it if you want; it links to the original thread in the first post. You will either laugh, sputter, or cry. I know I did all three.
Master Arminas
Well, except that you can't use the same weapon for every attack in a flurry.Yes, you can. 'Any combination' includes 'all attacks with one weapon'.
This has been "misunderstood." Explanations here
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Don't get me wrong, I think SKR's idea of monk FoB is awful. But this thread was made under the assumption that this "correct" version of flurry will become the new standard.
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I'm not arguing another SKR ruling I don't agree with. It's a waste of all our time.
It's actually a Jason ruling, he posted later in the thread.
I actually welcome them sitting down and figuring out what the hell they want the class to be, rather than the patchwork approach that has come out for a long time now, going back to WoTC.
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And just so the developers know that we want all the answers:
If this new ruling on flurry of blows is correct, then does a monk who uses the Power Attack feat, while using flurry of blows, receive +2/-1 for off hand or the +1/-1 for the off hand and does he still get to use +3/-1 for a two-handed weapon?
Master Arminas
Sorry TOZ coulda sworn i saw you in the other thread.
But yes this is made under the assumption that you are now simply using a TWF and thus are unallowed to make all attacks with one weapon.
This lead Mergy I believe to posit the theory of TWF with temple swords to maintain decent damage since it seems the penalty is whats on the chart. I felt that it would be a good idea to find out asap so that PFS monks will know exactly how their sheet will read.
P.S. I also wonder what steps will be taken in PFS if any to help possibly illegal builds get legal.
And just so the developers know that we want all the answers:
If this new ruling on flurry of blows is correct, then does a monk who uses the Power Attack feat, while using flurry of blows, receive his full Strength modifier for Power Attack on his off-hand weapon or one-half his Strength modifier?
Master Arminas
I think what you mean is does a monk use the +2/-1 for off hand or the +1/-1 for the off hand and does he still get to use +3/-1 for a two-hander? Since his str mod never changes for his attacks its always set at 1x no matter what hand/foot/elbow/head/dagger/sword/etc is used.
Hey Ciretose! Did you see my finished monk class for Pathfinder? I know you commented early on, but I don't know if you ever saw the final version. It is here: Master Arminas's Revised Monk for the Pathfinder RPG, if you want to take a look. I'd be interested in your opinion.
Master Arminas
I think what you mean is does a monk use the +2/-1 for off hand or the +1/-1 for the off hand and does he still get to use +3/-1 for a two-hander? Since his str mod never changes for his attacks its always set at 1x no matter what hand/foot/elbow/head/dagger/sword/etc is used.And just so the developers know that we want all the answers:
If this new ruling on flurry of blows is correct, then does a monk who uses the Power Attack feat, while using flurry of blows, receive his full Strength modifier for Power Attack on his off-hand weapon or one-half his Strength modifier?
Master Arminas
Fixed. Thank you, Talonhawke.
MA
Like the monk Arminas now just to wait and see what comes out when they hash the monk out.
Agreed man that would be the way to go.
Can we get some answers to our questions, please?
Master Arminas