I am preparing for my next big campaign where we'll probably go to level 20. We are doing fast progression so this should be attainable. We'll probably start at level 4
I'm a huge fan of the gish archetype, so I was trying to do Draconic Sorcerer/Draconic Disciple/Eldritch Knight. I also want to use the Eldritch Heritage feats to get the bloodline powers of the Orc Bloodline (Strength of the Beast, and Power of Giants at higher levels). I also like the Dimensional Agility feat chain.
For flavor reasons, I chose to be a Half Orc (Since I want to take the Eldritch Heritage Feats, although free proficiency with the falchion and the bite attack are pretty nice)
so the level/BAB/Feat/ability progression goes like this:
LV1:+0 Sorc1: Skill Focus (Survival), Eschew Materials, Dragon Claws
LV3:+1 Sorc3: Power Attack(-1/+3), Nat Armor +1, Resist 5 Energy
LV5:+2 Sorc5: Eldritch Heritage (Orc), Touch of Rage +1
LV6:+3 Sorc6: Touch of Rage+2
LV7:+3 DD1: Merge Spells*, Natural Armor +1, Claws 1d6
LV8:+4 DD2: Toughness, Str+2, Dragon Bite, Touch of Rage +3
LV9:+5 DD3: Dimensional Agility, Breath Weapon 9d6 2/day, Nat Armor+1, Resist 10 Energy
LV10:+6/+1 DD4: Strength +2, Nat Armor +1, Touch of Rage +4
LV11:+7/+2 Fighter1: Improved Eldritch Heritage (Orc), Improved Initiative, Strength of the Beast (+2 Str)
LV12: +7/+2 S7: Claws +1d6 energy, Natural Armor +2**, Wings**, Breath Weapon 15d6 2/day**, Touch of Rage+5, Quicken Spell
LV13: +8/+3 Eldritch Knight1: Dimensional Assault, Arcane Strike, Weapon Training 1***
LV14: +9/+4 EK2: Touch of Rage +6
LV15: +10/+5 EK3: Dimensional Dervish, Strength of the Beast +2
LV16: +11/+6/+1 EK4: Touch of Rage +7
LV17: +12/+7/+2 EK5: Greater Eldritch Heritage (Orc), Strength of the Beast (+2 Str), Power of Giants, Tough of Rage +8, ???
Havent decided on a bonus combat feat for that level, and still got the lv 19 feat open, but that's not a problem for now.
Notes:
* Merge Spells is found on Feats 101:
Merge Spells (Metamagic)
You can unite two spells together.
Prerequisite: Caster level 5th
Benefit: You can join two spells that can be cast in a single action and can have the same legal target to form a single effect. All variable effects of the spell are based on the higher level spell. A merged spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the highest level spell’s actual level and uses up the same slot as the lower level spell’s actual level.
**Effective Sorcerer level for the purpose of powers is 11, so get a robe of Eldritch Heritage for an effective lvl of 15
***Using Sash of the Warrior Champion, I could get the +1 to Weapon Training for something...like natural attacks to help my Bite attack I guess
My spell list is mostly buffs and some blast stuff. Of course, I will be using Dimension Door.
But yeah, am I trying to cram too many abilities into one character. What should I drop if so?
The Sash of the Warrior Champion only works for bravery and armor training, so you won't get weapon training with it.
You are going Sorcerer 7, DD 4, Fighter 1, EK 5 for a BAB of 12 and a caster level of 14 and a bloodline level of 11 at level 17. Or you could go Sorcerer 7/ DD 10 with a BAB of 10, Caster level of 14, and you can get a FotD II 5 times per day, breath weapon of 21d6 4 times per day, Immunity to paralysis, sleep, your energy type, and 60' blindsense. Oh, and you forgot 90' wing speed, +2 to Con and Int, and another +1 to Natural Armor. The 90' wing speed actually helps your distance covered by Dimensional Dervish, so that is something to consider.
FotD II > Power of the Giants because there is no penalty to Dex, +2 natural armor bonus, and you also get flight and extra breath weapons. Not to mention that you can get it at level 15 instead of level 17, and a dumbed down version of it at level 12. Power of the Giants can also be done for 17 minutes at 17th level. FotD II can be done for 70.
You want to give up all that for a +2 to hit? I suppose it would adjust your power attack too, so it would only be +1 to hit and a bit more to damage in melee. Is that your definition of doing to much? You can actually do more with a level of Barbarian, or better yet, casting Transformation.
I would drop your Eldrich Knight entirely and commit to the Dragon Disciple. Eldrich Knight works good if you focus on a weapon instead of Natural Attacks, but you won't be doing that. Pick up monster feats if you can. Noxious Bite if you have picked an acid breath. Hover is nice to avoid Fly checks and the dust cloud is fun. Ability Focus for your nice Breath Weapon. Also look at Arcane Strike at early levels instead of Power Attack. At level 5-7 you will be doing better damage with it, and it stacks with Power Attack (which you get as a bonus feat) for later.
Well for that, why don't I go S6/DD10/S7 and use the last few levels for Fighter and EK if it gets to that level
I don't like DD9 and 10 because I lost a CL at lv9, but the abilities ARE pretty awesome
Also, I mostly picked Orc Bloodline for the inherent bonus to Str. I also considered the Abyssal Bloodline, as it too gives the Str bonus. However, I take greater eldritch heritage to get the last +2 to str at lvl 17 instead of lv19. The Power of Giants is nice, but just gravy.
Well for that, why don't I go S6/DD10/S7 and use the last few levels for Fighter and EK if it gets to that level
I don't like DD9 and 10 because I lost a CL at lv9, but the abilities ARE pretty awesome
Thing is that if you go EK, you have to lose two more caster levels. One for Fighter and one for the first level of EK. So for the last 3 levels of your build there, you would gain one new spell level and +3 BAB, or take three more levels of sorcerer and get +2 BAB and one new spell level. EK has been completely outdone by Magus. The only place where I think it still has some use is in an Arcane Archer build. It is a bit of a trap.
Robes of Arcane heritage can slow down your need for high level feats of EH unless you really want them. With them you can get the whole +6 at level 15.
I don't know if you have read my guide or not, but there is some good info there. Check out the sorcerer section for the crossblooded advice, you might like it.
But yeah, am I trying to cram too many abilities into one character. What should I drop if so?
it depends on what you want to play... having a lot abilities at lvl 17 is pretty much the norm- even a straight class fighter has a lot of abilities by then (granted they're all tightly grouped around physical combat...) if you want a character who's good at everything (except skills) then this is a good build- if you want a character that's awesome at something you should narrow your focus. remember, you're only one character- there's only so much you can do in a round.
and remember also that you (presumably) won't be the only party member- this build seems to be designed with only yourself in mind (you can buff yourself then wade into combat) in an actual party there will probably be someone else that is either better at buffing/casting who could do that to your guy (who could be more optimized for combat), or is better at combat whom you should buff/support instead of trying to compete with. that's from an optimization stand point though... if you're happy with the flexibility by all means play it as is, if you're party is big and has the important roles covered already then run with it, if you're party is small and needs someone to pull double duty with physical combat and utility casting then this is good.
i guess that's not really an answer, but hopefully it'll give you something to think about.
I read the guide on Dragon Disciple, and I learned that even if I am crossblooded, both bloodlines benefit from Blood of Dragons, which is cool.
I can feasibly mix Arcane(Sage) and Draconic to be int-based, and still have access to dimension door as a lv4 spell (which is leagues better than Fear). However, I would still need 15 Charisma so I don't know just how beneficial that would be.
Also, I'm afraid of sacrificing too many points of BAB since I want to still be able to fight in melee.
Also, I noticed the Quicken Spell-like Ability feat. I remember the rule of thumb being the effective level of the ability is your class level when you got the ability/2 or the highest spell you can cast(IE: an ability you get at lvl 1 would be effectively a lv1 spell, and a lv9 power like breath attack a level 4 spell). However, I think they changed spell-like abilities so that they goes up as you level.
Can someone confirm this? Because I would like to get that feat and make touch of Rage a quickened ability 3/day.
From the SRD:
If a character class grants a spell-like ability that is not based on an actual spell, the ability’s effective spell level is equal to the highest-level class spell the character can cast, and is cast at the class level the ability is gained.
...Anyone got more input on this?
Finally, I was trying to decide between abyssal and Orc Bloodline for the Eldritch Heritage. Both make sense flavorwise (Or so does Orc of Golarion say), but Orc has a useful 15 ability. The Touch of Rage is nice, but who knows how often I will use it. Spending a round buffing is not optimal (unless I can quicken it) and I'm sure I can make more use of the extra rounds of claws. I'm also certain Knowledge Planes is more useful than survival.
Ok, so I made a few changes.
Race: Human
LV1:+0 Sorc1, Feats: Eschew Materials, Racial Heritage (Orc), Skill Focus (Survival). Traits: Magical Knack, Tusked. Abilities: Claws, Spells
LV2:+1 S2
LV3:+1 S3. Feat: Arcane Strike. Natural Armor+1, Resists 5 Energy, Bonus Spell: Mage Armor
LV4:+2 S4. Bonus Lv1 Spell
LV5:+2 S5, Feat: Eldritch Heritage (orc). Claws = Magic for DR. Touch of Rage +1. Bonus Spell: Resist Energy. Bonus Lv1 Spell
LV6:+3 S6. Bonus Lv2 Spell.
LV7: +3 Dragon Disciple 1. Feat: Toughness Claws = 1d6. NA+1. Bonus Spell: Fly
LV8: +4 DD2: Str+2, Dragon Bite, Bonus Feat: Power Attack
LV9: +5 DD3: Dimensional Agility. Claws +1d6 Nat Armor +1, Resist 10 Energy, Breath Weapon 2/day (NOTE: Around this point I get robes of eldritch Heritage). Bonus Spell: Fear
LV10: +6/+1 DD4: Str+2, Nat Armor +1
LV11: +6/+1 DD5: Nat Armor +2, Wings (60'), Blindsense 30', BL Feat: Improved Initiative, Improved Eldritch Heritage (Orc). Strength of the Beast: Str+2
LV12: +7/+2 DD6: Con+2. Bonus Spell: Spell Resistance
LV13: +8/+3 DD7: Another Breath Attack, (17d6, DC=18+cha), Dragon Form 1/day, Nat Armor +1, Feat: Dimensional Assault
LV14: +9/+4 DD8: Int+2, BL Feat: Quicken Spell, Bonus Spell: Form of the Dragon I
LV15: +9/+4 S7: Strength of the Beast: +2 Str, Bonus Feat: Great Fortitude. Feat: Dimensional Dervish. Bonus Spell: Form of the Dragon II. Bonus Lv5 Spell
LV16: +10/+5: Breath Weapon 20d6 (DC 20+cha) 4/day, Power of Wyrms. Bonus Lv6 Spell
LV17: +11/+6/+1 Ranger (Guide) 1: Guide's Focus. Feat: Greater Eldritch Heritage (Orc). Str+2
LV18: +12/+7/+2 Eldritch Knight 1: Bonus Combat Feat
LV19: +13/+8/+3 EK2
LV20: +14/+9/+4 EK3
Note that levels 17-20 are purely speculative as I doubt it will reach that point. However, I plan for 17 being the highest, hence why I get Greater Eldritch Heritage (Get that last +2 to str sooner). I still debate using the Orc bloodline vs the Abyssal Bloodline (Abyssal Bloodline = more claw uses, but Touch of Rage fixes my craptastic BAB for a turn.)
So I sacrifice 1 point of BAB to be able to get my hands on a Robe of Eldritch Heritage and get the lv20 sorcerer benefits.
I looked into transformation, I guess i wont be using spells once I cast it, but I don't know if that's the kind of thing that could backfire on me. For instance, casting it before battle means I won't be able to use my dimensional Feats.
Your BAB will be fine. Between a +6 belt and your strength bonuses through feats and class you have a +10 right there. Amulet of Mighty fists can pop that sucker to a +15, You will likely have a heroism spell going, +17, add to your 11 BAB and you have 28. This isn't including any bonuses to flank, which you will probably be able to have at this point. Oh, and that is before FotD, which gives you another +2 to hit and 6 attacks.
The AC's for a difficult encounter for you at this level (CR 20) are 36-38, meaning you need to roll a 6-8 or higher on your die 20's to hit. You will have 6 attacks. Dimension dervish into flanking position and miss on a 4-6. Adventure with a Bard and you only miss on a 1.
Also, I'm not sure this is true or not, but Robes of Arcane Heritage don't specify an upper limit to Dragon Breath. Which means if you go all out on your Sorcerer levels, you can get a 24d6 dragon breath. Oh, and since you decided to only take eight levels of Dragon Disciple, you possibly could go sorcerer out on that and get 9th level spells at level 20. But you aren't going that high anyway, so its no biggie.