Hullo,
So in my game the players got to the part in which Janiven reveals the plan for them to be actors in the 'Six trials of Larazod' murder play and they were appalled. They almost flat out refused to do it. In fact they have said that although they may play along to get into the Mayor's house they will do whatever they can to stop any more plays of this kind from ever happening. They believe if they allow something like that to continue that they can't be considered heroes at all.
So... any ideas on how they might "shut down" future plays?
I know with our group our DM made us read out the play and by the time it was over we were all so bored and pissed it damm near ended the game, we got TPKed in the same book
Hullo,
So in my game the players got to the part in which Janiven reveals the plan for them to be actors in the 'Six trials of Larazod' murder play and they were appalled. They almost flat out refused to do it. In fact they have said that although they may play along to get into the Mayor's house they will do whatever they can to stop any more plays of this kind from ever happening. They believe if they allow something like that to continue that they can't be considered heroes at all.
So... any ideas on how they might "shut down" future plays?
People choose to do this of their own volition. It's like trying to stop actors from taking roles in reality TV shows-- the directors and producers are too interested in money to care how these people's lives end up as a result of their play, and the people who are taking the roles are too self-absorbed to think about how much their life might be affected if they take the role.
I imagine every single performance of the Sixfold Trials of Larazod since it's been unbanned have, just before the curtain call, opened with "Alright! Let's be the first people to ever survive this so we can be mega-famous and rich!" and ended with "Oh my god they were so yoooooung."
One way you could get the PCs to stop it... hm. You could be like, oh, the Mayor has to sign off on every single one of the performances of these murder plays or it's not legal. If you can get the Mayor out of office, you could stop murder plays from happening! Then the PCs come out of the Asmodean Knot with proof* that the Mayor is a scumbag and, well... see what they do with it. It existing isn't good enough. They have to convince everyone he's terrible, too.
*you have to add this into your game I think
I know with our group our DM made us read out the play and by the time it was over we were all so bored and pissed it damm near ended the game, we got TPKed in the same book
I know with our group, doing this was one of the most interesting and noteworthy sessions we've ever had and we still laugh about our hammy performances and ad-libs we did during the play.
So, OP, depending on your group it could suck or be awesome!
Hullo,
So in my game the players got to the part in which Janiven reveals the plan for them to be actors in the 'Six trials of Larazod' murder play and they were appalled. They almost flat out refused to do it. In fact they have said that although they may play along to get into the Mayor's house they will do whatever they can to stop any more plays of this kind from ever happening. They believe if they allow something like that to continue that they can't be considered heroes at all.
So... any ideas on how they might "shut down" future plays?
From what I understand there is a way to handwave the actual reading of the lines, and just do the fight scenes. I was a player, and not a DM so that may not be accurate. I would let them know that nobody has ever survived the play, and that if they are the first to do so their status will increase within the city. That is what our DM told us anyway.
In my opinion, the play could be a very memorable session, but some things are VERY important:
1. Make sure everyone is "on board" with doing the play. If they really don't wan't to "act", you could skip it. The reading of the lines is only about 20-30mins of time, so it won't take up such a big part of the session.
2. Make sure everyone is comfortable. Not all players feel confident at the table, and that can ruin the experience. This is meant to be silly fun after all, not a classroom presentation.
3. Encourage over-the-top hamming of lines. Our most memorable character was the Torturer, played by our normally least "talky" player, since he was excited about his role and did an awesome "gravelly voice".
I'm not sure how GMy this thread is, so I'll put a spoiler on the next bit:
Hmm.. I think this has gone off track. My "players" are not against the play at all. I'm sure they are going to have a good time actually reading the lines and hamming it up.
The issue is that the "characters" object to a play in which innocents are slaughtered and tortured on stage for the pleasure of others. As heroes they have decided that this practice must be stopped. They are ready to derail the adventure path and start a campaign against anyone that continues to practice "murder plays".
Ice Titan, I like your idea of the Mayor having to sign off on these plays. It gives one central location in which the players can focus their efforts AND after the play they will be going to his manor anyway, so it's convenient.
Maybe I should have public flogging and execution happen in their neck of Westcrown to remind them that 1) this type of "entertainment" is not unusual for this Lawful Evil city and 2) remind them that the people that sign up to be in these plays do it of their own free will for a chance to be rich and famous... not unlike Spiderman starting out in a wrestling cage match to earn some $$$ to buy a car to impress Mary Jane. Wow that was nerdy.
Well, to comment on Ice Titan's idea: We've been playing with the assumption that the Mayor has the power to create new laws in the city (a power given to him by the House of Thrune), but that he has to have the support of the noble houses to get a law to work in anything more than principle. Then, regardless of the existence of a "Mayor's approval"-rule (because the current mayor approves a lot to murder plays), to put an end to murder plays (and bloodsports in general?) the PCs will have to not only convince the mayor, but also the major houses. This could be a good way to introduce major nobles (Vassindo Drovenge, Eirtein Oberigo, Ilsen Mhartis). It would also be a good way to create further incentives for solving the "sidequests" concerning nobles in the later adventures. Or, if they don't want to befriend the nobles, they could try to get dirt on them to use as leverage.
But how do they sway public opinion to support the murder play-ban? Fame points! This is a great way to make the players/PCs put more effort into becoming famous and using their fame, since the campaign gives few tangible benefits for high fame. Also, it would be a good buildup for the campaign's end, as the PCs have already changed the city for the better.
Hmm.. I think this has gone off track. My "players" are not against the play at all. I'm sure they are going to have a good time actually reading the lines and hamming it up.
The issue is that the "characters" object to a play in which innocents are slaughtered and tortured on stage for the pleasure of others. As heroes they have decided that this practice must be stopped. They are ready to derail the adventure path and start a campaign against anyone that continues to practice "murder plays".
Ice Titan, I like your idea of the Mayor having to sign off on these plays. It gives one central location in which the players can focus their efforts AND after the play they will be going to his manor anyway, so it's convenient.
Maybe I should have public flogging and execution happen in their neck of Westcrown to remind them that 1) this type of "entertainment" is not unusual for this Lawful Evil city and 2) remind them that the people that sign up to be in these plays do it of their own free will for a chance to be rich and famous... not unlike Spiderman starting out in a wrestling cage match to earn some $$$ to buy a car to impress Mary Jane. Wow that was nerdy.
I think a second way into the mansion is in order then unless the play can be sold as a lesser of two evils. I was also under the understanding that the play was banned until now. Try to sell the murder play as them fighting in front of an audience instead of out in the woods somewhere.
The issue is that the "characters" object to a play in which innocents are slaughtered and tortured on stage for the pleasure of others. As heroes they have decided that this practice must be stopped. They are ready to derail the adventure path and start a campaign against anyone that continues to practice "murder plays".Maybe I should have public flogging and execution happen in their neck of Westcrown to remind them that 1) this type of "entertainment" is not unusual for this Lawful Evil city and 2) remind them that the people that sign up to be in these plays do it of their own free will for a chance to be rich and famous... not unlike Spiderman starting out in a wrestling cage match to earn some $$$ to buy a car to impress Mary Jane. Wow that was nerdy.
Exactly right: the 'actors' in these plays are willing adventurers seeking glory - just what the party is seeking to do. It's not like people are conscripted for them.
I've also been toying with a public execution scene to give them an idea of how oppressive the atmosphere is, but I'm afraid they will try to rescue the victims. Maybe I should let them if they so choose?
We skipped the play, boring, stupid, didnt like it.
Instead we infiltrated the mayors house party after doing some knowledge local and fining out who was invited, we then went about impersonating and forging invitations and causing some diversions for certain guest who never made it to the party (we didnt actually kill anyone, but the neutral evil halfling in the party did abduct one)
Haven't run this for my players yet, but I'm looking forward to it. I think it's all in the presentation and the group. As for stopping these from happening... they are already fighting for social reform. Sometimes players have to accept that there is nothing they can do about a problem at that time. Have Arael remind them that they can stop the whole thing once they've helped reform local government. Unless they want to kill everyone involved... but that hardly seems more heroic.
Present group has stalled just before our 'dress rehearsal' as the players decide whether or not we want to go through the entire thing or just leave it to rolling percentage dice. Half of me wants to do the Play, even if we do suck at it, while the other half just wants to facepalm and get it over with. I'll admit it's an interesting gimmick for the campaign, and something that sticks in the mind, but having such a huge part of the campaign revolve around a single Skill, and one that only appears on a few Classes [Perform (Act)] has crippled quite a few of our characters.
Yes the high Cha classes can scrape through with lucky dice rolls, but then again if a party is unlucky enough to not have a Bard (or Rogue or hilariously, a Monk) who managed to take 'acting', then they are going to be horrificly crippled in later arcs of the campaign when their Popularity Score comes into play.
(Incidentally, level checks are, as far as the DM has ruled, 1d20 + Character Levels + Charisma, so if that's incorrect [ we can't find the actual rule in the Core Rulebook, but that could just age at work! ] I wouldn't mind being set straight!)
Yes the high Cha classes can scrape through with lucky dice rolls, but then again if a party is unlucky enough to not have a Bard (or Rogue or hilariously, a Monk) who managed to take 'acting', then they are going to be horrificly crippled in later arcs of the campaign when their Popularity Score comes into play.
Not really. Worst case scenario: they don't get fame points for the play and bad pay. Fame points really don't matter that much if they get other things right. I think you are confusing the popularity score with the fame and reputation scores used in the last adventure The popularity points in this adventure is really just the gp reward at the end, and most of it comes from getting through the play alive. If the players need cash, I don't see any problem with just giving them a bit extra.
Not really. Worst case scenario: they don't get fame points for the play and bad pay. Fame points really don't matter that much if they get other things right. I think you are confusing the popularity score with the fame and reputation scores used in the last adventure The popularity points in this adventure is really just the gp reward at the end, and most of it comes from getting through the play alive. If the players need cash, I don't see any problem with just giving them a bit extra.
Ah, thank god. I knew from reading the manuals a while back there was a campaign-arc 'score' players would have to keep track of, and as of yet we either have not gained either the Fame/Reputation, or our GM is keeping this mum for story-based tension, which I heartily approve of.
Ah, thank god. I knew from reading the manuals a while back there was a campaign-arc 'score' players would have to keep track of, and as of yet we either have not gained either the Fame/Reputation, or our GM is keeping this mum for story-based tension, which I heartily approve of.
Ooops, sorry if i stepped on your GMs toes there. I agree that it's sometimes good to keep such things quiet, but rest assured: The outcome of the entire campaign does not rest on the outcome of seven sets of Perform-rolls ;)
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wow.... when i ran it for my players, the play was according to them one of the best roleplaying event they have ever experienced... some of the posters here say that "players were pissed that the DM made them read?"
wtf... wow... if THAT is putting you out of your comfort zone, I'm afraid that life will be a giant disappointment for you in many regards.
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My group loved the play. We had fun acting out the play and enjoyed the "extras".
The one thing you must remember is the reason for the play's ban is that Asmodeus has only held sway in Cheliax for 70 years. The play was written 200 years ago. Aroden was still alive and the people were preparing for his return. That a play would show Asmodeus using a tiefling to stop the magistrate who was also a worshiper of Asmodeus would have been considered blashemy. Let alone the fact the the paladin of Aroden was portrayed as a bafoon.
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The play was the most fun I've had in an AP ever.
If your players aren't okay with it, I can definitely see it getting skipped. But it sounds like this isn't the case with your group.
It sounds like your players' characters aren't okay with blood sport. But I would like to remind them and you - you live in a Lawful Evil society. Blood sport is not only accepted, it's the preferred method of keeping the masses distracted from how terrible their lives are. Incidentally, it's also the preferred method of distracting the nobility from fighting with each other.
This is how Cheliax has survived. There will be plenty of time to get rid of blood sport events once the city has improved, and much better opportunity besides, but removing just the sports themselves won't help the city any. Unrest and rioting will ensue.
And in the second book, the PC's are not nearly powerful enough to want this. Maybe at the end of book four they can put a stop to all the blood sport - type events.