Can Monks take Greater Trip without an Int of 13?


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

Monks can get Improved Trip as a bonus feat without meeting the prereqs. Can a Monk then take Greater Trip without having Combat Expertise or an Int of 13? I've looked all over for something to help me with a ruling either way but can't seem to find it.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

As long as they meet the BAB requirement of +6 yes, Greater trip only requires improved trip, doesn't care how you got it.

Liberty's Edge

Well, see that was my thought as well, but there has been some debate as to whether or not requiring the previous feat implies a requirement or all previous feats in the tree.


Christopher Van Horn wrote:
As long as they meet the BAB requirement of +6 yes, Greater trip only requires improved trip, doesn't care how you got it.

The feat table and the feat description disagree as to what the requirements are:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/feats.html#greater-trip

"Greater Trip (Combat)
You can make free attacks on foes that you knock down.

Prerequisites: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, base attack bonus +6, Int 13.

Benefit: You receive a +2 bonus on checks made to trip a foe. This bonus stacks with the bonus granted by Improved Trip. Whenever you successfully trip an opponent, that opponent provokes attacks of opportunity.

Normal: Creatures do not provoke attacks of opportunity from being tripped."

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
hogarth wrote:


The feat table and the feat description disagree as to what the requirements are:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/feats.html#greater-trip

"Greater Trip (Combat)
You can make free attacks on foes that you knock down.

Prerequisites: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, base attack bonus +6, Int 13.

Benefit: You receive a +2 bonus on checks made to trip a foe. This bonus stacks with the bonus granted by Improved Trip. Whenever you successfully trip an opponent, that opponent provokes attacks of opportunity.

Normal: Creatures do not provoke attacks of opportunity from being tripped."

My mistake, was trying to look it up fast. I would agree with the longer description over the shorthand one then. So you would need the int, although favor and intent wise it seems like you shouldn't.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

McCaul wrote:
Monks can get Improved Trip as a bonus feat without meeting the prereqs. Can a Monk then take Greater Trip without having Combat Expertise or an Int of 13? I've looked all over for something to help me with a ruling either way but can't seem to find it.

So since Greater Trip also requires INT 13.

Liberty's Edge

Thanks Hogarth and Christopher.

I should have thought to check the PRD. I guess they just said "improved trip" as a pre-req as a kind of short-hand.

But there really aught to be something in the section titled "Prerequisites" which says any feat which has another feat as a prerequisite also requires THAT feat's pre-reqs.

Thanks again,

McCaul


Rules as written, Monks can only override the prerequisites of their bonus feats, and Greater Trip is not one of their bonus feats. As a DM, I'd allow it, just tossing it in with other bonus feats, but within the rules? Greater Trip explicitly requires that 13 Int, so a Monk without that Int couldn't get it.


Similarly, as a DM I'd allow you to take "Greater X" as long as you have "Improved X" and I'd add "Greater X" to the monk bonus feat list (at level 6, even).


Viletta Vadim wrote:
Rules as written, Monks can only override the prerequisites of their bonus feats, and Greater Trip is not one of their bonus feats. As a DM, I'd allow it, just tossing it in with other bonus feats, but within the rules? Greater Trip explicitly requires that 13 Int, so a Monk without that Int couldn't get it.

LOL,

Apparently we can agree on something.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Viletta Vadim wrote:
Rules as written, Monks can only override the prerequisites of their bonus feats, and Greater Trip is not one of their bonus feats. As a DM, I'd allow it, just tossing it in with other bonus feats, but within the rules? Greater Trip explicitly requires that 13 Int, so a Monk without that Int couldn't get it.

While a monk of any intelligence can get Improved Trip... Greater Trip still requires it. Basically, a monk's training lets them bypass the requirements for the less powerful feat in the chain, but it doesn't let them bypass the requirements of the more powerful version.


James Jacobs wrote:
Viletta Vadim wrote:
Rules as written, Monks can only override the prerequisites of their bonus feats, and Greater Trip is not one of their bonus feats. As a DM, I'd allow it, just tossing it in with other bonus feats, but within the rules? Greater Trip explicitly requires that 13 Int, so a Monk without that Int couldn't get it.
While a monk of any intelligence can get Improved Trip... Greater Trip still requires it. Basically, a monk's training lets them bypass the requirements for the less powerful feat in the chain, but it doesn't let them bypass the requirements of the more powerful version.

Keep note of this one for the FAQ then. :)


mdt wrote:
Viletta Vadim wrote:
Rules as written, Monks can only override the prerequisites of their bonus feats, and Greater Trip is not one of their bonus feats. As a DM, I'd allow it, just tossing it in with other bonus feats, but within the rules? Greater Trip explicitly requires that 13 Int, so a Monk without that Int couldn't get it.

LOL,

Apparently we can agree on something.

I forth that. If you know the basics you can master it. I'm not sure why you need Int to trip someone anyways. Then again, I didn't like the splitting of the combat manuevers into 2 feats anyways.

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