Seneschal Spell Claitification Question

[Azen Azmere]

For this feat it allows you to cast the spell through someone else. If the spell you case via it has the manipulate action, does this trigger a reactive strike for the person who uses their reaction to complete the spell as it specifically says "which gives the spell the subtle trait for you (but not for them) as the manifestation appears solely around your charge."

[HammerJack]

No.

1. They roughly complete the incantation. The spoken part of the spell. That doesn't carry any logical implication of a Manipulate action.

2. Nothing says that reaction has the Manipulate trait.

3. The Subtle trait has no connection to Reactive Strike being triggered or not.

[The Raven Black]

You cast the spell with the Manipulate trait. Not them, as HammerJack clarified.

[Bunhamut]

Wait, if subtle doesn't hide the fact you are casting the spell such that you still trigger reactions from the manipulate trait, what DOES it do? Just keep your casting from being noticed while you are hidden or unobserved and not removing those conditions because you aren't shouting incantations and glowing, I guess? Does that mean you have to be hidden when you cast charm, read the air, or figment or else it's obvious you're casting a spell?

[HammerJack]

It keeps your casting from obviously being casting, whether you're observed or not. Reactive Strike is someone seeing an opening to hit you. They don't need to know that the disguised gesture that created the opening was part of casting a spell. That isn't relevant to the reaction.

Subtle, as a trait, isn't primarily about in-combat use.

[NorrKnekten]

Subtle does not remove the neccesary handgestures which manipulate represent, just makes them unrecognizable from regular motions like finger pointing.

The difference is basically pointing a finger, and making some gestures which creates a colorful, glowing ring of magical runes before pointing said finger.

If a creature is doing something with their hands there is a whole slew of things they can be doing, but people would still recognize it as having casted a spell afterwards if the effects are visible. Like a clearly illusional bush popping up from nowhere or a creature becoming invisible.

[Bunhamut]

I see, so I guess the way to think of it is that it hides the fact that what they are doing is casting a spell, but casting a spell still forces you to drop your guard in a way reactive strike users can notice and capitalize on.