Lesstalt

[GM_Alex]

I had an idea the other day for a way to make characters that were interesting, strong, and diverse - much more so than the normal rules allow - without making them stupidly overpowered, narrative-stealing, walking deus ex monsters. This is intended to sit comfortably between normal characters, and the aforementioned Gestalt and Mythic builds, and I’m calling this system Lesstalt (forgive me if this has already been done and I’m just ignorant of it).

Players choose two classes to advance simultaneously, like Gestalt, but there is a primary class and a secondary class (similar to the Variant Multiclass rules from Unchained). You advance in your primary class at each level, and at every even level, your secondary class advances as well. For even levels, you choose the better progression of either class as you do with Gestalt. However, you use the Fractional Base Bonuses rule from Unchained to determine the progression of BAB and Base Saves. So, if you’re playing as a Wizard (primary) and Rogue (secondary), your odd-numbered levels will always be that of a Wizard (+1/2 BAB, +2/6 Fort, +2/6 Ref, +3/6 Will, 1d6HD, and 2+Int skill ranks). On even-numbered levels, however, you gain +3/4 BAB, +2/6 Fort, +3/6 Ref, +3/6 Will, 1d8HD, and 8+Int skill ranks. Your secondary class is therefore only 1/2 your primary class, and you gain the class abilities of the secondary class at this rate. The bonus +2 to a high base save applies for your secondary class only if it doesn’t apply to the same save from your primary class. You treat all class skills from both classes as class skills from level 2 on.

So a level 10 Wizard (primary) Rogue (secondary) would have BAB 6 1/4 (rounded down to 6, Fort 3 2/6 (rounded down to 3), Ref 5 1/6 (rounded down to 5), Will 7 3/6 (rounded down to 7), 5d6+5d8 plus Conx10 hp, and 50 plus Intx10 skill ranks. You also have the full spells/day, Arcane school powers, and bonus feats of a level 10 Wizard, plus the Sneak Attack, Rogue Talents, and various other class abilities of a level 5 Rogue (math can get a little clumsy when calculating everything at once instead of 1 level at a time, so forgive me if I miscalculated anything, but I double-checked and it should all be correct)

This feels like a really strong progression that gives players a lot of room to make very interesting and diverse characters, but keeps them more grounded and easier to challenge and corral for the GM. Not a ground-breaking idea, but it’s something I thought of and hadn’t ever heard of before, so I thought I’d share it here. Any thoughts would be appreciated!

[glass]

Interesting. If I was going to do this, I would probably do the slightly more generous "first, second, and every even level thereafter" like fighter feats, to avoid a weird disconnect between level 1 and the rest of the progression (particularly with regard to class skills).

[ShroudedInLight]

I made some house rules for this idea a while back. I did the opposite though, on Odd levels you gained 1 level of abilities of your secondary class (not their growths though; you always use your primary class to determine bab, skills, saves, and HP). You do gain their proficiencies and class skills though.

Similar to VMC you gave up half your feats; but also reduced one of your saving throw progressions provided your main class had 2 good saving throws. You also don’t gain a favored class bonus unless you are a half-elf with multitalented. I also have a house rule where your caster level is determined by your total levels in spellcasting classes: this doesn’t give you more spells per day or higher level spells but it does give you better concentration, spell penetration, and spell variables.

For example, a Bard/Bloodrager has 3/4 BAB, d8 HP, and 6+Int skill points. They gain both the bard and Bloodrager armor and weapon proficiencies. They can cast Bloodrager spells in medium or light armor but can only cast bard spells in light armor. During character creation you choose to lower one of the bards good saving throw progressions to bad progression, so either will or reflex. You only gain a feat at levels 3, 7, 11, 15, and 19. Every odd level grants you one level of abilities from the Bloodrager class. At 7th level when you gain access to Bloodrager spells you cast them as if you were 7th level for determining all variables of casting (including concentration and spell penetration), but only know spells as a 4th level Bloodrager.

Edit: I have house rules that give every class two good saving throws. This makes it so that every class pays something to gain these bonuses.

Edit 2: The reason I reduce the saving throws progression is to make provide additional weaknesses to characters to balance out their additional strengths. This makes it so that even casters who don’t need as many feats to function are paying a real cost. If anyone designs a real monster with these rules I should have two saving throws to go after with my encounter design. Most martial classes grant extra feats, so they shouldn’t be paying as steep a price either.