Stunt Damage's damage


Daredevil Class Discussion


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Putting aside the focus on shoving Stunt Damage has, which I don't like at all, I feel we need to have a proper discussion about how much damage Stunt Damage deals

It starts at 1d6+4 (7.5 avg) at 1st level, 2d6+4 (11 avg) at 5th level, 3d6+4 (14.5 avg) at 9th level, 4d6+5 (19 avg) at 13th level, 5d6+6 (23.5 avg) at 17th level, and 5d6+7 (24.5 avg) at 18th level.

I feel this damage isn't that impressive when compared to that of the guardian's Pushing Shove, which starts at 4 at 1st level, 6 at 3rd level, 10 at 7th level, 11 at 10th level, 17 at 15th level, 18th at 16th level, and 19 at 20th level.

Let's remember Punishing Shove is a 1st level feat, which can be taken by anyone at 4th level.

And to make matters worse, if you are playing a centaur (or happen to be raised in Centaur Village, which happens to be right next to Gnome Town) you can take Practiced Brawn for a +1 and auto-crit succeses on Athletics checks to shove, which means you double your Strength modifier to damage from Punishing Shove, making it better than Stunt Damage at all levels except 9 (for literally 0.5 less average damage).

I'm pretty sure that I don't need to say that guardian is going to become the psychic (or cleric now?) of the daredevil's magus, but besides that, I feel we can all agree a 1st level feat shouldn't outdamage a class, right?


So it seems like the main thing missing is crit damage on stunt damage.

It's also worth noting a Daredevil can take both for some pretty good shove damage.

Daring Stunt > Daring Reversal actually kind of crazy on a centaur daredevil with punishing shove (assuming you can find flanking to walk into but still).


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And the Guardian doesn't need to Shove their target into a Prop.

This Guardian exploit seems grievous (and it's a fine Archetype for the armor too). I'm unsure how one might patch it w/o contrived mechanics. (Some Barb/Fighter abilities might compound the issue, Mauler too.)

Daredevils might become a bunch of buff bully boys pushing people around. "Machete don't leap." or "YOU'RE a Daredevil?!"

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