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Summary:
- 6 of the 15 Map products advertised in last Humble Bundle as having both PDFs & JPGs, apparently doesn't have JPGs.
- Most store pages for digital version of Map product descriptions are just copy/paste descriptions of the Physical Map Mats/Tiles store pages.
- Customer Support has been frustrating.
Details:
It has been a little more than a month since my first email to support for this, despite that, some things are still not resolved or have not been answered.
Originally there were some outright missing (of any version) products, however this has been since resolved for me. (But did anyone finally get all their missing items if they hadn't contacted support about it?)
However the following items, while I did eventually get the PDF version, there is still no individual JPG image versions of these:
Pathfinder Flip-Mat Classics: Forest*
Pathfinder Flip-Mat Classics: Town Square
Pathfinder Flip-Mat Classics: Watch Station
Pathfinder Flip-Mat: Mythos Dungeon
Pathfinder Flip-Tiles: Forest Perils Expansion*
Pathfinder Flip-Tiles: Forest Starter Set*
According to support as of Jan. 7th, (over multiple emails going back since Dec. 11th) they said JPGs of these are not available (Despite what was advertised in the bundle and those folks in the forum and Reddit claiming they got all their PDF and JPG files, eventually.) and pointed out that I did get the PDFs, politely implying there is no problem to begin with as long as I have at least those files. :/
On Dec 11 in the forums I asked for a clarification on image files included with map mat / tile PDF purchases, not just with the bundle but when store bought through Paizo.com, but no one has answered that inquiry yet to date. I also followed up with support on Dec 12th also asking for this clarification from them too. This was in the same ticket thread from when I reported the original outright missing items (like many others had experienced) on Dec 11th. On Dec. 22nd, having not seen the missing PDFs appear nor a support response about the JPGs, I followed up again with with another email. They replied that day with an update that they had just reapplied the bundle and said they sent my image inquiry higher up and would get back to me after the holidays about those JPG clarification with the store.
I followed up again via email on Jan 6th, again asking the specifics about the missing JPGs and map images in general purchased on the site, but the support person just reapplied the PDF versions of the 6 maps to the library again, which wasn't what was requested or necessary and indicative they likely didn't fully read the latest email or any other messages in the earlier support thread.
I made another reply being more detailed, going over the ongoing duplicate product file name issues just in case the support person was new and hopefully helps them find the missing JPG files. Next day a different person replied stating the product file name update was just applied but, as stated above, was the point they said there were no JPGs of those 6 map products. :<
This isn't a simple issue of my not getting what was advertised. Note a total of 6,613 bundles were sold. Source: https://www.humblebundle.com/books/pathfinder-second-edition-holiday-haul-b undle-paizo-books 5 of the 15 maps in the bundle was in the 1st tier, the rest included in the second tier. Three of those maps advertised as having the JPGs (but apparently don't) was included in that lowest/minimal tier. (Asterisked above.) Potentially several thousand people were affected. But ignoring all that, it was ultimately for charity and that was still a the good part to everyone to participate in.
But bottom line for Paizo this also reveals a missed opportunity in regards to digital map sales in general.
The JPG versions are very desirable for their use in Foundry VTT. (Or PNGs or WebP image formats.) Saves time rather than having to use some program to extract the images out of the PDF before they can be used. Plus the bigger issue is the PDF's embedded images are of a lower resolution, while the JPG's resolution are usually significantly better. Those better images would likely also be the same images provided to the licensed Paizo VTT products sold through Fantasy Grounds and / or Roll20, which all 6 of these have links to FG VTT versions of those products. So those JPGs should still exist and thus should be available.
I want to emphasize that including map images in addition to the PDFs for map mats and tiles is a selling point for me. And I wouldn't be the only one, considering use in Foundry VTT. I'm now interested in buying digital PF and SF maps thanks to this bundle. (and I don't mean, only waiting for Humble Bundles to get them, either.) I even created an offline wish list of what digital maps I want purchase along with some of the Society modules that also use them, to buy in the future. (For those that don't know, Pathfinder Wiki lists these in their product info pages.)
If some or all of these digital map products are including the images in addition to the PDFs but the store site pages are not advertising this, then Paizo is missing potential sales. Pathfinder Flip-Mat Classics: Watch Station PDF is a good example of copy/paste description being used. No need to include the dry erase instructions for digital products. But info like the image resolution or a clause allowing printing for personal use would be useful here. (specifically to have for folks wanting to print a copy for personal use at a print shop, who would otherwise refuse to do so for copyright laws without the permission.) Isn't the original purpose of releasing PDFs of maps / mats was so that people can print them out for personal use? (This being before VTTs become common, as they are now.) Otherwise they're not very useful as PDFs, in comparison to the digital source books and adventures.
There still hasn't been an answer for general map images from the store question I made since Dec. 12th, a full month ago. I still don't know if purchasing any of PDF versions Map Mats or Tiles includes images if bought at Paizo.com or if the the JPGs was just a Humble Bundle exclusive. With the exception of one product Pathfinder Flip-Tiles: Wilderness Starter Set PDF (which actually looks like an error, as there is no real description) no other map product page mentions JPGs.
It would be nice to get an answer to what I've been asking. I want to purchase maps if they include the images, not just the PDF.
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This all sounds like a very frustrating series of events, and if the Humble Bundle page specifically said maps which don't have JPGs in fact do, then that is really problematic as it incorrectly described to people what they would be purchasing.
My impression is that Paizo started adding JPGs to map products around 2020 or 2021 when the VTT boom was taking off (I'm not sure what exact month they made the change during), but that they've only ever done it for newly-released products, they never went back and added them to older releases, which is the reason why some digital maps do come with JPGs and others don't. It would be great if they went back and added them (...I imagine it can't possibly take too much time to do to make their digital products more appealing to people...) or at the very least adjusted the description of the digital products to indicate exactly what is included in each one.
At a bare minimum though, yeah, if they'd advertised on the Humble Bundle site that those particular maps came with both JPGs and PDFs, then I'd say they have a responsibility to you and those 6,612 people to add in the JPG versions which were advertised.
Minor Correction: I originally said there was 15 maps in the bundle, there was actually 14.
My impression is that Paizo started adding JPGs to map products around 2020 or 2021 when the VTT boom was taking off...
Thanks for the insight! After some research with the help of the www.PathfinderWiki.com, it looks you may be right.
Publication dates of those seemingly without their images are before 2019:
Pathfinder Flip-Mat Classics: Forest - September 2, 2015
Pathfinder Flip-Mat Classics: Town Square - October 21, 2015
Pathfinder Flip-Mat Classics: Watch Station - August 02, 2018
Pathfinder Flip-Mat: Mythos Dungeon - September 28, 2016
Pathfinder Flip-Tiles: Forest Perils Expansion - October 17, 2018
Pathfinder Flip-Tiles: Forest Starter Set - August 29, 2018
Dates for the remaining map products which had included images:
Pathfinder Flip-Mat Classics: Museum - July 07, 2021
Pathfinder Flip-Mat Classics: Noble Estate - March 29, 2023
Pathfinder Flip-Mat Classics: Thieves' Guild - October 2021
Pathfinder Flip-Mat: Bigger Flooded Dungeon - October 16, 2019
Pathfinder Flip-Mat: Jungle Multi-Pack - November 10, 2021
Pathfinder Flip-Mat: Malevolence - July 07, 2021
Pathfinder Flip-Tiles: Fortress Starter Set - August 04, 2021
Pathfinder Flip-Tiles: Haunted Woodlands Expansion - May 27, 2020
With Blue's insight stated, I guess it can be assumed map images are included with all map PDFs released since at least Oct. 16th, 2019?
If there is resistance to getting those images included from what was missing in the bundle, in the case of the Forest Tile sets, I criticize why only have the images for only the expansion set when there are no images with the starter, for which is needed to to make the whole of the product useful as intended?
With the new store site finally online, it is time to get those missing images included with the digital map products that are missing them, and update all the page descriptions of the digital maps to better reflect what they actually are, am I right?
Anyway I hope this info and initiative helps the community.
Now that the most of the file name entries in the new library seems to have been updated, I'll list them here for folks who participated in the bundle so they can check against it.
Assuming there is currently no JPG versions of the six map products I've been writing about, everyone who opted to get all of the digital products of the bundle: they should have received 34 products. In turn they should have had added a total of 53 entries in their new store library, accounting for those items where there were multiple versions.).
Pathfinder Adventure Path #201: Pactbreaker (Wardens of Wildwood 1 of 3)
Pathfinder Adventure Path #201: Pactbreaker (Wardens of Wildwood 1 of 3) PDF - File per Chapter
Pathfinder Adventure Path #202: Severed at the Root (Wardens of Wildwood 2 of 3) PDF - File per Chapter
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Pathfinder Flip-Mat Classics: Museum - PDF
Pathfinder Flip-Mat Classics: Noble Estate - JPGs
Pathfinder Flip-Mat Classics: Noble Estate - PDF
Pathfinder Flip-Mat Classics: Thieves' Guild - JPGs
Pathfinder Flip-Mat Classics: Thieves' Guild - PDF
Pathfinder Flip-Mat Classics: Town Square PDF
Pathfinder Flip-Mat Classics: Watch Station PDF
Pathfinder Flip-Mat: Bigger Flooded Dungeon - JPGs
Pathfinder Flip-Mat: Bigger Flooded Dungeon - PDF
Pathfinder Flip-Mat: Jungle Multi-Pack - JPGs
Pathfinder Flip-Mat: Jungle Multi-Pack - PDF
Pathfinder Flip-Mat: Malevolence - JPGs
Pathfinder Flip-Mat: Malevolence - PDF
Pathfinder Flip-Mat: Mythos Dungeon PDF
Pathfinder Flip-Tiles: Forest Perils Expansion PDF
Pathfinder Flip-Tiles: Forest Starter Set PDF
Pathfinder Flip-Tiles: Fortress Starter Set - JPGs
Pathfinder Flip-Tiles: Fortress Starter Set - PDF
Pathfinder Flip-Tiles: Haunted Woodlands Expansion - JPGs
Pathfinder Flip-Tiles: Haunted Woodlands Expansion - PDF
Pathfinder GM Core PDF - File per Chapter
Pathfinder GM Core PDF - Single File
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Pathfinder Lost Omens Pathfinder Society Guide PDF - File per Chapter
Pathfinder Lost Omens Pathfinder Society Guide PDF - Single File
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Pathfinder Player Core 2 PDF - Single File
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Pathfinder Rage of Elements PDF - Single File
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Pathfinder Society Scenario #5-05: The Island of the Vibrant Dead
Pathfinder Society Scenario #5-06: Ukuja, The First Wall
Pathfinder Society Scenario #5-08: Protecting the Firelight
Pathfinder Society Scenario #5-10: The Crocodile's Smile
Pathfinder Society Scenario #5-12: Mischief in the Maze
Pathfinder Society Scenario #5-20: The Rakshasa's Court
Director of Brand Strategy
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Hey Imp3.dev,
Sorry to hear you're frustrated with the digital maps. All of those products should have JPG versions available as part of the download. As AFigureofBlue suggested, we did start adding JPGs to these products in late 2020 as a way of supporting remote play better. Our intent was to add JPGs retroactively to all digital map products, and when creating the product listings for the Humble Bundle, I erroneously assumed that had happened. So the miscommunication on the Humble Bundle is on me. Sorry for that!
On the plus side, it shouldn't be too hard to to get the JPGs for these products added to the download assets so that everyone who got them as part of the Humble Bundle gets what was promised. We're working on that now, and you should get an email letting you know when the packages are updated on the site.
Sorry again for the confusion and frustration, and thanks for your patience.
We're working on that now, and you should get an email letting you know when the packages are updated on the site.
Thank you very much.
We're working on that now, and you should get an email letting you know when the packages are updated on the site.
An update:
I noticed at the end of January that three of the six of the map products with issues updated in the library. However, at first they would throw up an error, similar to what others was reporting for some of the new digital releases early this month. A week later, two of them was able load with the appropriate choices and downloaded normally. (Forest and Mythos Dungeon) The third map product, Town Square, only 3 of the 4 options download, with the .zip version instead defaults to downloading the .pdf. So, mostly reporting a minor persistant technical issue.
Looking forward to the remaining packages with issues to update.
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Thrilled to hear that they're going through and adding these... but Paizo, please, one or both of these...
A) Bring back the email notifications that alert people when a download in their library has been updated and describe what has been changed.
B) Fix the Library page so that sorting by "Last Updated" actually sorts by the last updated date, at least in my library it just puts things into a seemingly arbitrary order.
Between these two things it's almost impossible to know/find when a download has been updated unless you go looking for a specific item by name and check what Last Updated date is listed for it. (and even that's imperfect, since the issue I previously reported at https://paizo.com/threads/rzs7kj67 of many downloads having been marked as updated despite no apparent update having actually been made still persists)
...
A) Bring back the email notifications that alert people when a download in their library has been updated and describe what has been changed.
B) Fix the Library page so that sorting by "Last Updated" actually sorts by the last updated date, at least in my library it just puts things into a seemingly arbitrary order.... many downloads having been marked as updated despite no apparent update having actually been made still persists)
Seconded!
I noticed the GM Core and Player Core 'updated' in my library a few weeks ago, but looking them over I couldn't tell the difference between those and what I already had. (like same well known errata still existing in both, etc.)