| ScooterScoots |
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Typically, it's impossible to trick magic item a 3 action spell, because you don't have enough actions. What if there was a way to get those actions? Well, there is.
First, summon a skymetal striker with 6th rank summon elemental. Then, get it to bite you. This is being done out of combat, so you should be able to get that autohit without any distractions. If your DM takes a firm hardline stance against high level characters receiving injections (legally required to dodge I guess), you can wear some plate armor to tank your AC down to 16 (You're not proficient in it).
Once you've been bitten you need simply succeed a DC25 fort save vs it's venom to acquire quickened one. A very special quickened one, as this quickened is not restricted to any to any specific action. You can use it for whatever you want - in this case, to trick magic item next turn, leaving you 3 actions with which to cast whatever you please.
So what do you use this 3 action spell trick magic item on? Well, there's a few options. If you really need a wall of stone for construction purposes, well, you can have it. Want a casting of perseis's precautions or lucky number, for some reason? Go wild.
The most practical use case I've found is for primal casters without a arcane or occult spellcaster in their party (fairly restricted pool there I know) to use a wand of recall legacy. This adds an additional 3,000gp for a wand of summon elemental to the already fairly expensive recall legacy wand/scrolls, so dunno if it's actually worth it. But I guess it is an option.
To close things, here's a transcript of what a friend of mine said while workshopping the tech:
"Gentlemen, I have the f+@$ing solution, and I'm so mad about it... we cast summon elemental, we get the skymetal striker, we're wearing heavy armor that we're *not* proficient in - we have champion dedication but we weren't already proficient in medium armor so it only got us to medium, we're wearing heavy. And then skymetal striker attacks us, automatically hits - automatically crits because we're wearing heavy armor we're not proficient in, and then we crit the saving throw so we're quickened. And now with that quickened we trick magic item and we cast our three action recall legacy from the wand, and the feat we get from recall legacy is GENERAL TRAINING choosing ARMOR PROFICIENCY to become proficient in the heavy armor we're wearing [breaks down laughing]"
| ScooterScoots |
By the level you can use the wand, every PC regardless of ancestry has had 3 general feat pickups. I don't see how using a R6 spell + R7 wand on a daily basis is a worthwhile alternative to simply taking the L1 general feat you want.
Taking armor proficiency via general training is a joke use, you’d never actually do that. If you were going to actually use the tech it’d probably be to recall legacy multitalented or some other good ancestry feat onto a party member who normally wouldn’t have it, which could sometimes be worth the large price tag. In addition to whatever situational use you could get out of it, like “damn I really just need a wall of stone today”.
How useful recall legacy is depends on build specifics of you and your party, since the only ancestry feats you can give them are ones they’d have have the opportunity to take already anyways - so you’re either giving them their 6th best ancestry feat (subject to limitations on how high level that can be by RL’s rank), one that normally wouldn’t make the cut, or doing some archetype sequencing b**%#@*! with multitalented (rare but possible that you’d be opening other archetypes after 13th level, let alone 17th).
Only sometimes worth the money and less worth it with the additional 3k for a summon elemental wand, but I’m sure there’s a time and place. Unless your party members habitually take bad ancestry feats. In that case recall legacy and by extension this tech shoot up in value because instead of giving them their 6th best ancestry feat, you’re potentially giving them their first best.
| Easl |
Taking armor proficiency via general training is a joke use, you’d never actually do that.
I guess if you're starting at a high level. But it would be a bit of a slog to start at L1 with a low-dex build because you anticipate wearing heavy armor, and then intentionally not taking heavy armor proficiency for your entire L1-L12 play through because you're waiting for your L13 "R6 slot + R7 wand" trick to kick in. That's a lot of hours of play at suboptimal AC. I'd just take the proficiency early and if the trick seemed worth it to me, retrain out of it at L13.
How useful recall legacy is depends on build specifics of you and your party, since the only ancestry feats you can give them are ones they’d have have the opportunity to take already anyways - so you’re either giving them their 6th best ancestry feat (subject to limitations on how high level that can be by RL’s rank), one that normally wouldn’t make the cut,
Yeah that's where I get skeptical. Particularly with humans getting to use their ancestries for generals, it is hard for me to envision a build in which trading away a daily R6 spell and a R7 wand use for your 5th best ancestry feat is a good trade.
This also ignores the two points of failure: both trick magic item and the fort save must be rolled, and thus have a chance of failing. Even if its only 25% chance of failure on each, combined that means the trick is failing 44% of days. Heck even if each has only a 10% chance of failure on each, you'd still be walking around not proficient in your armor because your trick failed about 1 out of every 5 adventuring days. That's way too risky for me.
| ScooterScoots |
ScooterScoots wrote:Taking armor proficiency via general training is a joke use, you’d never actually do that.I guess if you're starting at a high level. But it would be a bit of a slog to start at L1 with a low-dex build because you anticipate wearing heavy armor, and then intentionally not taking heavy armor proficiency for your entire L1-L12 play through because you're waiting for your L13 "R6 slot + R7 wand" trick to kick in. That's a lot of hours of play at suboptimal AC. I'd just take the proficiency early and if the trick seemed worth it to me, retrain out of it at L13.
Quote:How useful recall legacy is depends on build specifics of you and your party, since the only ancestry feats you can give them are ones they’d have have the opportunity to take already anyways - so you’re either giving them their 6th best ancestry feat (subject to limitations on how high level that can be by RL’s rank), one that normally wouldn’t make the cut,Yeah that's where I get skeptical. Particularly with humans getting to use their ancestries for generals, it is hard for me to envision a build in which trading away a daily R6 spell and a R7 wand use for your 5th best ancestry feat is a good trade.
This also ignores the two points of failure: both trick magic item and the fort save must be rolled, and thus have a chance of failing. Even if its only 25% chance of failure on each, combined that means the trick is failing 44% of days. Heck even if each has only a 10% chance of failure on each, you'd still be walking around not proficient in your armor because your trick failed about 1 out of every 5 adventuring days. That's way too risky for me.
You have the summon for a minute so you can just retry several times. Can use recall legacy scrolls instead of wands so if one fails you just use the next (teammate can hand them to you for action efficiency). I don't care to crunch the numbers but I'd expect over 95% success rates when you can try like 5 or 6 times. Fort saves aren't an issue, if you're a 16th level wizard (about the earliest level you'd use the tech) you have a +22 or so to your fort save.