First!

[Arkat]

nt

[Lord Fyre]

Arkat wrote:

nt

But do you actually know anyting about this new AP?

[zimmerwald1915]

Lord Fyre wrote:

Arkat wrote:

nt

But do you actually know anyting about this new AP?

It may involve the breaking of a hell.

[W E Ray]

It looks (superficially) like a second helping of Hell's Rebels taking place in Isger instead of NW Cheliax. Um. With a little extra Urgathoa.

[Dragonchess Player]

Based on the product description it sounds like Hellbreakers (and later Hell's Destiny) may essentially be continuing the events of the Eagle Knights' capture of Breachill and Citadel Altaerein (mentioned in Battlecry!).

This is speculation on my part, but Breachill and Citadel Altaerein were also the starting points for Age of Ashes so the aiudara (elf gates) underneath Citadel Altaerein and Dahak (who has ties to Hell, IIRC) may make appearances.

[zimmerwald1915]

Dragonchess Player wrote:

This is speculation on my part, but Breachill and Citadel Altaerein were also the starting points for Age of Ashes so the aiudara (elf gates) underneath Citadel Altaerein and Dahak (who has ties to Hell, IIRC) may make appearances.

They should, but (per the Inner Sea War predictions thread) they won't.

[Lord Fyre]

zimmerwald1915 wrote:

Dragonchess Player wrote:

This is speculation on my part, but Breachill and Citadel Altaerein were also the starting points for Age of Ashes so the aiudara (elf gates) underneath Citadel Altaerein and Dahak (who has ties to Hell, IIRC) may make appearances.

They should, but (per the Inner Sea War predictions thread) they won't.

I keep finding my decision to ignore all Pathfinder after War For The Crown to be the right one.

[zimmerwald1915]

W E Ray wrote:

It looks (superficially) like a second helping of Hell's Rebels taking place in Isger instead of NW Cheliax. Um. With a little extra Urgathoa.

I would be very surprised if Hellbreakers played out much like Hell's Rebels, or was similar in tone. A central conceit of Hell's Rebels was that military confrontation with Cheliax was to be avoided. The Navy only appears as one ship which defects to the rebellion, and the Army only appears at one small checkpoint between two provinces. The Silver Ravens were actively discouraged from seeking to assist, or assistance from, the concurrent military insurgency of the Glorious Reclamation. The political resolution of Ravounel's rebellion relied on the discovery and exploitation of a preexisting legal document and on Cheliax's prizing its military alliance with Hell over its territorial integrity.

The Hellbreakers' League is a military ally of Andoran's from the outset, and as an insurgency plays auxiliary to the Andoren army upon which it relies to achieve its political goals.

Another central part of Hell's Rebels' conceit was that social revolution towards a democratic and social republic was to be avoided as much as possible (one or more someones influential at Paizo "hates it like sin," at least as of 2015-16). Andoran may insist rather more forcefully on instituting a sister republic in Isger.

[Sarcedor]

Taking into account the adventure description, and considering that even though it's a book it will likely be divided into three chapters, my prediction for the adventure is as follows:

-Chapter 1 (1-4): We start small, traveling through the countryside to different villages, solving problems and gaining support while facing hellknights and some undead. The boss of this chapter could be a hellknight from Citadel Dinyar, or perhaps that comes later.

-Chapter 2 (5-8): We've just gathered support and descend on Elidir and other cities in the Conerica Straits. The boss of this chapter is surprisingly Hedvend VI; he should be around level 9 or 10, so he won't be the final boss of the book. At the end of the chapter, we manage to take control of Isger.

-Chapter 3 (9-11): You know who's a level high enough to be a final boss? Illcayna Alonnor, daughter of Urgathoa, attacks with her undead army from the south to return Isger to a nation dedicated to the goddess. This is the only reason I see for including information about Urgathoa in the book. Another villain we couldn't face is the High Priestess of Mammon, since she's level 20 and so on.

An outcome I would wholeheartedly wish for is that Asmodeus continues to be worshipped in Isger. I don't want Isger to become Ravounel 2.0, and given the whole orphanage situation (whose children are now adults), I think it would be good if they worshipped Asmodeus in his "benevolent" form. It would be quite ironic, if in Hell's Destiny the House Thrune falls and Cheliax is torn to pieces, for Isger to be the place that preserves Asmodeus. It would be interesting, and there would be beef with Andoran, which would be nice.

[zimmerwald1915]

Sarcedor wrote:

-Chapter 3 (9-11): You know who's a level high enough to be a final boss? Illcayna Alonnor, daughter of Urgathoa, attacks with her undead army from the south to return Isger to a nation dedicated to the goddess.

Good job this isn't 1E, Illcayna was a CR 19 creature with 17th-level cleric casting in that system. Well beyond what should reasonably be pitted against an 11th-level party.

[Sarcedor]

zimmerwald1915 wrote:

Sarcedor wrote:

-Chapter 3 (9-11): You know who's a level high enough to be a final boss? Illcayna Alonnor, daughter of Urgathoa, attacks with her undead army from the south to return Isger to a nation dedicated to the goddess.

Good job this isn't 1E, Illcayna was a CR 19 creature with 17th-level cleric casting in that system. Well beyond what should reasonably be pitted against an 11th-level party.

I've checked, and you're right, perhaps the threat is more direct from Cheliax. Even so, it's strange because at the end of the campaign, you'll have a powerful daughter of Urgathoa with an undead army in the south, and in the north, there's the cleric of Mammon, both with political or religious interests in Isger. The PCs won't be able to deal with them, will they? Perhaps that will be left for the future.

What interests me most about this campaign duology is seeing what happens with Andoran, since in Shining Kingdoms the more militaristic faction is established, and when the war with Cheliax starts a few months later (and they will likely win), I wonder if it will make Andoran even more interventionist and militant afterward. I find it interesting since in 1e the only ones that adventurers could come into conflict with were the Lumber Consortium, but it would be interesting to see conflicts between Andoran and Taldor or other nations and that in any of them there could be PCs that support them (in a Cheliax vs Andoran only Andoran would receive the support of the PCs as is being seen in the aps and society scenarios).

[Dragonchess Player]

Sarcedor wrote:

zimmerwald1915 wrote:

Sarcedor wrote:

-Chapter 3 (9-11): You know who's a level high enough to be a final boss? Illcayna Alonnor, daughter of Urgathoa, attacks with her undead army from the south to return Isger to a nation dedicated to the goddess.

Good job this isn't 1E, Illcayna was a CR 19 creature with 17th-level cleric casting in that system. Well beyond what should reasonably be pitted against an 11th-level party.

I've checked, and you're right, perhaps the threat is more direct from Cheliax. Even so, it's strange because at the end of the campaign, you'll have a powerful daughter of Urgathoa with an undead army in the south, and in the north, there's the cleric of Mammon, both with political or religious interests in Isger. The PCs won't be able to deal with them, will they? Perhaps that will be left for the future.

I believe Hell's Destiny is supposed to be a continuation of the Hellbreakers plot/story. IIRC, it should cover levels 11-20 or so and deal with the higher-level threats.

[Arkat]

Dragonchess Player wrote:

I believe Hell's Destiny is supposed to be a continuation of the Hellbreakers plot/story. IIRC, it should cover levels 11-20 or so and deal with the higher-level threats.

Yes.

My question is whether these next two APs are supposed to be Mythic or not?

[Veltharis]

Arkat wrote:

Dragonchess Player wrote:

I believe Hell's Destiny is supposed to be a continuation of the Hellbreakers plot/story. IIRC, it should cover levels 11-20 or so and deal with the higher-level threats.

Yes.

My question is whether these next two APs are supposed to be Mythic or not?

As far as I'm aware, none of the upcoming APs that we know about (Hellbreakers, Hell's Destiny, and the newly-announced Bastion of Blasphemies) are designed for mythic.

[Dragonchess Player]

I believe Paizo will take a bit to gather feedback regarding how the PF2e mythic rules functioned in Myth-Speaker and Revenge of the Runelords before starting the design/development on the next mythic AP. Considering there is probably something like at least 8-12 months lead time to write, compile, proofread/edit, and print before publication, I wouldn't expect another mythic AP until 2027 at the earliest.

However, the mythic rules can probably be added to Hellbreakers and Hell's Destiny if the GM is willing to modify the AP a bit. The mythic rules are only slightly more work to include than the free archetype alternate rules, IMO.

[zimmerwald1915]

Dragonchess Player wrote:

I believe Hell's Destiny is supposed to be a continuation of the Hellbreakers plot/story. IIRC, it should cover levels 11-20 or so and deal with the higher-level threats.

Hell's Destiny starts with its PCs in the far southwest of Cheliax, around Corentyn, and while it can be played by a Hellbreakers party, it doesn't have to be. It may revisit the eastern theater, or it may not; we don't know.

But my point was that since Hellbreakers is written for 2E, if Paizo does want to use Illcayna as the endboss, it's trivial to power her down.

[Jarkodiak]

looking forward to it. I enjoy the Andoran vs chelliax angle.

[TRDG]

Looking forward to the story and the sub system games included myself. This will be the next AP I will run for some of my groups, currently some are in Wardens, SF II's Graveworld, Mythspeaker then Prey for death. Some of my other groups are waiting to see the new (first really) AP for SF 2, thats does'nt just go for 5 levels!!

REALLY wish they would have that GENCON only event with taking the castle, one can hope though!!

Tom