Explosive Entry, or "What's up with odd-numbered archetype feats"?

[totesmagotes83]

The Achetype: "Demolitionist" from Guns & Gears has a feat called: "Explosive Entry", and it's a lvl 7 feat. I don't get it, how are you supposed to get this feat? You don't get a class feat at lvl 7, (or a free archetype feat if your campaign is using that), once you're lvl 8, you could take it, but then why didn't they just make it a Feat 8?

[Claxon]

If you managed to gain some way to get an extra class feat, you could take it earlier. I'm not sure such a way exists, but it's possible.

It is odd, but it doesn't hurt anything.

Edit: Looking at the archetype feats, it has feats a 4,7,8 and 12.

I actually think it might have been meant to be a level 6 feat.

Except that master rank proficiency requires being 7th level....so that's probably why.

It probably should have been a 6th level feat with only expert engineering lore skill.

[NorrKnekten]

Typically when an archetype has a feat listed at 7 its a skill-feat thats locked behind the archetype with a prerequisite of master in its skill or lore.

Few examples;
Scholastic Identification
Efficient Controls
Expert Dissasembly

Considering its effect is to simply allow you to use Force Open as a result of Set Explosives my guess is that its meant to be a Skill Feat.

[Hill Giant]

It looks like it was intended to be a skill feat. So, either it's missing the "skill" tag, or someone decided it should be a class feat, but forgot to adjust the level.

[totesmagotes83]

Hmmm... interesting. Maybe it is meant to be a skill feat tied to engineering lore, but as Claxon pointed out, you can't get Master Engineering Lore until lvl 7, but just like archetype feats, you don't get skill feats at odd levels, so it's effectively lvl 8.

It's the same thing with "expeditious search" skill feat. It's lvl 7 for that reason, but they could have just made it lvl 8.

[steelhead]

Claxon wrote:

If you managed to gain some way to get an extra class feat, you could take it earlier. I'm not sure such a way exists, but it's possible.

Can’t humans get an extra class feat at first level via the Natural Ambition feat? As far as I know, that’s the only way.

[Finoan]

totesmagotes83 wrote:

It's the same thing with "expeditious search" skill feat. It's lvl 7 for that reason, but they could have just made it lvl 8.

It's not just that skill feat either. Pretty much all of the 'requires Master' skill feats are level 7 feats. Even though you don't get a skill feat slot at level 7.

So I do think that the feat needs errata. It looks like it is supposed to be a skill feat. You could technically use it during combat, but that doesn't really seem like its intended use case.

Not that it is likely to get errata. It is from Guns & Gears and doesn't look like it made the cut for Remaster. Maybe Demolitionist Archetype will be reprinted in a different book at some point and this will get fixed then.

[Claxon]

steelhead wrote:

Claxon wrote:

If you managed to gain some way to get an extra class feat, you could take it earlier. I'm not sure such a way exists, but it's possible.

Can’t humans get an extra class feat at first level via the Natural Ambition feat? As far as I know, that’s the only way.

Yeah, natural ambition gets you an extra 1st level class feat. So it's an extra feat, but definitely doesn't work to get Explosive Entry.

[NorrKnekten]

Finoan wrote:

totesmagotes83 wrote:

It's the same thing with "expeditious search" skill feat. It's lvl 7 for that reason, but they could have just made it lvl 8.

It's not just that skill feat either. Pretty much all of the 'requires Master' skill feats are level 7 feats. Even though you don't get a skill feat slot at level 7.

You do gain a General Feat at level 7 though, with the rules spelling out that all skill feats are general feats. so I don't really see the weirdness there.

[Tridus]

Finoan wrote:

totesmagotes83 wrote:

It's the same thing with "expeditious search" skill feat. It's lvl 7 for that reason, but they could have just made it lvl 8.

It's not just that skill feat either. Pretty much all of the 'requires Master' skill feats are level 7 feats. Even though you don't get a skill feat slot at level 7.

You get a general feat which can be a skill feat, so that is the earliest level you can take it if it were a skill feat.

Quote:

So I do think that the feat needs errata. It looks like it is supposed to be a skill feat. You could technically use it during combat, but that doesn't really seem like its intended use case.

Not that it is likely to get errata. It is from Guns & Gears and doesn't look like it made the cut for Remaster. Maybe Demolitionist Archetype will be reprinted in a different book at some point and this will get fixed then.

Demolitionist is in the remaster G&G. This feat wasn't changed. So yeah, probably not getting errata.

[TheFinish]

Rogues get a Skill Feat every level, so Rogues can get them at 7. So can Investigator, with a few more restrictions. And Swashbucklers, again with restrictions.

The effect of this one is definitely more in line with a skill feat than a Class Feat, so that's how I'd rule it.