[SnS] Getting a reward for the scenario when the loot card was removed from the game

[Dark Nero]

What happens if a scenario must give a loot reward to a character, but that loot was previously removed from the game? I need to find an answer to this question in the setting of the first generation of the game (i.e. based on MM rulebook as the latest one).

For example, Valeros completed first 4 adventures in the SnS Adventure Path. Since he completed Scenario 4-2, he obtained "Vailea" loot card and removed it from the game to gain skill feat. Then the player decides he wants to change character. He creates a new character Lem, and uses Valeros to boost the new character through the first several adventures.

Then he keeps playing only with Lem. After completing scenario 4-2, he must receive a reward, which is a loot card that is currently in the "removed from the game" pile inside the box.

MM rulebook does not describe what "removing from the game is" at all, which game area it is, is it part from the box etc. It also does not describe, where loot cards are stored before players get them and if are they considered part of the box.

The Core rulebook mentions removing from the game as putting cards back in the box separated from the Vault. Based on this wording it seems that Removed from the Game cards are still part of the box. But anyway, there is no such term as Vault in the first game generation. And I absolutely can't find anywhere in the MM rulebook or all four FAQ answers to these question.

1) Which zone are loot cards considered to be in when you start the new game?
2) What is the definition of "Removed from the game" cards? What limitations do those cards have? Are they only limited to not being dealt to the locations? Where is the "removed" zone considered to be - is it part of the box, or a brand new zone?
3) Where are scenario reward cards taken from? When scenario provides a random card it usually says "Each character draws a random blessing from the box." But when the reward is loot it just says "Loot: Pirate's Favor" without clarification where to draw that loot from. If neither scenario card nor rulebook state where to draw the loot from, can player draw it from wherever it is?

[Brother Tyler]

1) Loot cards [that aren't in characters' decks] are kept in a separate section in the box (or the vault, to use Core Set terminology). They are distinct from other types of cards (e.g., Monsters, Cohorts, Weapons, Blessings, etc.) and are not dealt into locations unless specified by the scenario rules (and off the top of my head, I can't think of any time where a scenario directs any loot cards to be dealt into locations).

2) Cards that are "removed from the game" are not available for use in the future. They should be kept in a separate section of the box. If you have card dividers, you should have one for cards that have been removed from the game (there are a number of PACG card divider files available at the Board Game Geek website if you want to download some - shameless plug: you can see the dividers I made, which are available at the BGG, here).

The closest the Mummy's Mask rulebook comes to stating this is on page 23, though that refers only to cohorts:

"If you would banish a cohort, remove it from the game instead; it may not be used in future scenarios, even if it's listed on your character card."

While you've specified that you're looking for a ruling based on the Mummy's Mask rulebook, the issue was clarified in the Core Set rulebook which was published later and which serves as a reference for the intent of previous rulebooks (not counting where things actually changed). In this case, the relevant ruling can be found on page 4 of the Core Set rulebook:

"Cards that are not in the vault [what was called the "box" in previous rulebooks] should be kept in the box separately from those that are. If you are instructed to remove a card from the game, separate it from the vault using the Removed from Game divider."

In this, you have to separate the concepts of the "vault" and the "box." The "box" is just the physical container for all of the cards and other components of the game, whereas the "vault" contains those cards that are available for use in the game. Cards can be in the box while not being in the vault. This concept wasn't articulated clearly in previous versions of the game, including Mummy's Mask, creating some confusion.

3) Scenario rewards are taken from the box (the "vault" in Core Set terminology). In the case of loot, you should have all loot cards [that aren't currently in play] stored in the same section of the box ("vault") and you would draw loot granted as a scenario reward from there (not counting loot - or any other card - that has been removed from the game).

[Whipstitch]

Dark Nero wrote:

For example, Valeros completed first 4 adventures in the SnS Adventure Path. Since he completed Scenario 4-2, he obtained "Vailea" loot card and removed it from the game to gain skill feat. Then the player decides he wants to change character. He creates a new character Lem, and uses Valeros to boost the new character through the first several adventures.

Are you saying a player leveled Sajan up to level 4, then used that level 4 character in level 1-4 adventures along with a new character? I'd say at that point, said player has already broken the system to the point that what difference does it make if Lem gets an extra skill feat from Vailea?

More practically, it sounds like new Lem essentially joined Sajan's campaign. Only one character could get the loot card, and Sajan greedily had snuck ahead and used it up before Lem showed up. It's that player's game to play how they want. If they really wanted Lem to have the skill feat instead (the decision they could claim they'd have made if both Lem and Sajan had been together from the start), they should just take a skill feat from Sajan and give it to Lem.

Alternately, knowing the loot was coming in Adventure 4, they should have played adventures 1-4 with new Lem and a new clone of Sajan in an all-new campaign. Then, Vailea would be available for Lem.