Determining Bulk for Large PCs

[Ravingdork]

The Bulk Conversions table says that 1 Bulk is treated as L Bulk. But what about individual items that are more than 1 Bulk?

Take Large leather armor, for example. Normally leather armor is 1 Bulk, but since a Large PC would need a Large set, it becomes 2 Bulk. Do I then treat that as 2L, or does the conversion not apply at all since it is above 1 Bulk (leaving it effectively as 2 Bulk)?

[NorrKnekten]

Conversion is typically applied as part of considering the new bulk limit. For a large creature a 1 bulk item becomes ½bulk which then is rounded down to L. With neglible being anything 1/4 bulk or less.

For a medium creature a medium armor of this kind is a 1 bulk item obviously.

If we make the armor large then it becomes 2 bulk.
If we then make the creature large the creature will gain a x2 bulk limit.

Effectively this makes a 2 bulk item that is treated as a 1 bulk item for the creature's size and supports the notion beside the table that

Player Core pg. 270 wrote:

Because the way that a creature treats Bulk and the Bulk of gear sized for it scale the same way, Tiny or Large (or larger) creatures can usually wear and carry about the same amount of gear as a Medium creature.

EDIT: Missed the explanation as to why the conversation happens and the full quote.

[Ravingdork]

Thanks.

Thing is though, there's no penalty for using smaller gear, particularly weapons. There's absolutely nothing that says my Large minotaur can't carry and utilize Medium bolas against Medium creatures, for example, in order to save on Bulk.

I can understand needing a bigger suit of armor or a shield for more body coverage, but for most other items it certainly is not going to be a 1 to 1 conversion in practice.

[Elfteiroh]

Ravingdork wrote:

Thanks.

Thing is though, there's no penalty for using smaller gear, particularly weapons. There's absolutely nothing that says my Large minotaur can't carry and utilize Medium bolas against Medium creatures, for example, in order to save on Bulk.

I can understand needing a bigger suit of armor or a shield for more body coverage, but for most other items it certainly is not going to be a 1 to 1 conversion in practice.

Funnily, I was reviewing the rules, and technically, the rules aren't even "one size larger"... It's defined ONLY for small/medium creatures using Large weapons... and it is prefaced with "In most cases, [...]", so there could be table variation based on the weapon! So yeah.

And there's this text that says that Tiny and Large (and larger) creature require items of their sizes.

Player Core p.270 wrote:

[...]; however, other uncommon or rare ancestries might be larger or smaller and require items specially made for creatures of those sizes.

Personally, I don't think anyone of medium size could actually manage to use a tiny rapier (basically anything between a toothpick and a big knitting needle) as is. And a tiny reach weapon would DEFINITELY not apply the reach. Same logic would applies for Large and larger trying to use smaller items.

And there should also probably be some circumstances penalties to attack/damage. But that's way too much text to include in a limited pages book. :X

[NorrKnekten]

Ravingdork wrote:

Thanks.

Thing is though, there's no penalty for using smaller gear, particularly weapons. There's absolutely nothing that says my Large minotaur can't carry and utilize Medium bolas against Medium creatures, for example, in order to save on Bulk.

I can understand needing a bigger suit of armor or a shield for more body coverage, but for most other items it certainly is not going to be a 1 to 1 conversion in practice.

I don't even think its possible to wield a medium weapon as a large PC if we go by the RAW. Same page as the bulk conversation mentions in two different places that Tiny, Large (or Larger) PCs 'Need' or 'Require' gear adjusted to their size.

I personally would probably allow it with penalties similar to improvised weapon.

[Ravingdork]

Yeah, I'm sure it will be open to wide table variation.

Well, in my specific case, I happen to be playing a large awakened animal (a giant spider) so there really are no appropriate weapons or gear at any size for me. She just uses what she can scavenge, and she usually manipulates them by snagging them between her chitin's hooked barbs, pinching them between numerous stiff leg hairs that she can sort of "cup," or simply strapping them to her body.

[NorrKnekten]

Ravingdork wrote:

Yeah, I'm sure it will be open to wide table variation.

Well, in my specific case, I happen to be playing a large awakened animal (a giant spider) so there really are no appropriate weapons or gear at any size for me. She just uses what she can scavenge, and she usually manipulates them by snagging them between her chitin's hooked barbs, pinching them between numerous stiff leg hairs that she can sort of "cup," or simply strapping them to her body.

Oh I am a GM and my current campaign has an Awakened Animal Champion with the beast master archetype. So both barding, weapons and armor have needed to be changed.

I just let them use Craft to resize the item provided they have the appropriate feats (Magical crafting if runed or magic).

Just standard crafting where the material cost is half the difference between its current size and preffered size. Magical weapons use their base weapon type when calculating the cost but do contribute to the DC.

Rules as Written however I think reverse engineering is the way to go.
Dismantling the item and then rebuilding it from scratch with more materials but that is unneccesarily costly and timeconsuming in my eyes.