This is a spoiler-filled resource thread for the Triumph of the Tusk: The Resurrection Flood written by Brian Duckwitz.
I'm interested to see what other DMs have thought of the material, and what they have changed. Here is our collaborated prep with Niktorak and Ironbear.
My direct feedback on the whole of Book 1 with emphasis on the errors that show Ardax to be present for the events of chapter 3 in the backmatter, and conclusion of the adventure rather than being away at Ugir as the events of Chapter 2 showcase to follow.
Chapter 1 Torrentmoot
Chapter 2 Flood of Nightmares
Chapter 3 Splitskull Siege
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General Thoughts: This is an average adventure for a group that is new to pathfinder 2e that doesn’t want to start at level 1. The AP has set the foundation to be a big 'nothingburger' by the end of chapter 3.
I don't think I trust Ardax at all. He's way too slippery even for the writer.
The art style is very varied of the interior artwork for orcs. I still don’t know what their eye color is, or if they are a sort of mood ring deal. Ardax has so many different styles he's drawn in, and his main NPC art in the module isn't muscular like his description at all.
Please note: At no point in any of the 3 books does Ardax the Whitehair get a backmatter entry. This is a significant move away from the self contained nature of modules. The information needed to roleplay him is scattered between the Book of Legends, SkyKing’s Tomb, Pf1e Belkzin Hold of the Orcs, and any other obscure reference scattered throughout the pathfinder lore. Ardax is referenced 160 times in 100 pages.
As the most important NPC in this story, that is a huge glaring missed opportunity as many of the orcs who are going to die in a small room that run the hold get developed for seemingly no reason. Those orcs do not interact with the players outside of combat or being captured in the adventure.
Chapter 1: Torrentmoot- It’s got enough space between events, and influence tracks of 5 per NPCs giving the players a chance during the 3-4 weeks of time to form actual bonds and get to know the 3 main people at camp besides Ardax.
This is the strongest part of the module. We get things spaced out far enough that it gives newer players time to fail, think, and form a new opinion about orcs. I can remember the names of the important NPCs and actually like what is portrayed and that they can come with the players to help them if they ask. I love the tooth fairy gang event. Word wrestling is flyting from Wardens of Wildwood, that’s just lazy.
Chapter 2: Flood of Nightmares- Oregon trail with orcs on a 60 mile journey, that appears to be 90 miles on the actual map we are given according to the 50 miles scale on pdf and foundryvtt module. This means physically more than 4 days, but as written 4 days of 15 mile a day travel. It’s the Verduran Nexxus all over again from Wildwood.
Ardax gives a spirited heartfelt speech about needing to stick together or we’ll all die. Inspiring. Same scene he says he is leaving with the best guards and wishes us luck getting to a different location than him with all the undead around. He’s going to Ugir and we’re going to Splitskull. Well, that lasted about as long as I expected. Remember this, as it will be important later for Chapter 3.
We get a lot of neat little events, and then there is the really confusing and worst event in the whole book which leaves an odd impression: Zeral. She wants to take our things, but has the belief “One of her prime doctrines is to cast off all earthly possessions except what one can carry.” Okay. That’s a bit of a contradiction, but surely we can give her some supplies? Nope.
She rebukes being given what she's asked for as well. “any attempts to entice her with material goods, increase the next Influence check’s DC by 2”. But she’s robbing us. Attempting to give her what she’s asking for, “Now, abandon your physical possessions…” makes the checks harder. She went through the whole doomsayer speech just to rob the players. We’re starting a new religion, so we’re robbing you. You’ll be as dead as the God you worship lady.
This prompts the debating and influence rounds and there is a track of 8, all of which make less sense because she wants the supplies the caravan has. Expecting us to stay there 20 minutes to talk to her, when we can just move on and she’s lost the high ground for hesitating. No one is going to stop the caravan for this woman and we’d have cover from the arrows. Also makes very little sense, it’s so confusing. This person just sacked an entire village that is up ahead. She betrays her own character immediately.
This event is merely to fill space in the chapter, the only thing you can get is a shark tooth charm and isn’t worth the effort. We were of the mind to skip this event entirely. There is only the possibility of losing CP, not gaining any.
Absolute Solvent moderate (pdf and foundryvtt module) is a level 12 item worth 325 gp, which the players get as level 4. This is a definite mistake, and I wonder why no one caught this. No obstacle or event prompts its use in the module. It should be a ‘lesser’ version.
Chapter 3: Splitskull Siege- K’zaard is definitely not the boss of this chapter in terms of challenge, the Wyvern rider with the ability of toxic teamwork is; as she can deal her normal strike and double the current stage of wyvern poison in addition to the strike. On a crit this will one shot any player. All the rooms for these encounters are far too small inside of the keep.
K’zaard has no ability to lead his people and never did. The fact he’s made it this far just by his ability to talk and manipulate people is amazing. Ardax and this man should be best friends, but despite Ardax being suspicious of him; he trusts 50 lives in this man’s hands. He’s taken everyone inside with the deal that Splitskull will be spared of the undead hordes coming through, so he told everyone else not enough food and supplies and to leave and get reinforcements. He’s doomed his own people in Ossogard, and they’re already losing faith in him.
The people inside under his direct influence can be very easily swayed, and worse yet there is no jail or brig to hold suspicious people. So many opportunities where the players could just be arrested or subdued and brought inside, but we need to use the infiltration subsystem I guess. No means of enforcing K’zaard’s rule other than yelling, wrestling, and quick brawls.
This was a fantastic part to use what the players learnt at the torrentmoot and its activities to test their orc knowledge and behaviors, sadly there isn’t room for it here. It would have been the perfect call back and enforcement that the players were on the ball with orcs. We can at least still use the NPCs of the caravan to plan and collect IP. Ruining the food supply here is a really bad idea. It would make more sense to steal or hide the food, as it’s badly needed by the caravan and supplies are said to be low, even if they aren’t. The players shouldn’t be made to destroy the food or supplies with the very real undead horde coming.
The vampire who hates being controlled and fled Tarbaphon has no guarantee the ancestor storms, and influence here with Zagresh won’t influence him. He’s dominated two people already, betraying his own character. He killed his own servant, but even after they are drained of blood don’t rise as a servant/vampire spawn giving mixed messages about the mercy shown to him in his own backstory. His ring of the ram is legacy content, and there is no equivalent item at this time.
“In this desperate last-ditch effort, Ardax, the PCs, and any surviving NPCs are captured by K’zaard.” Wow, that’s surprising. And impressive, Ardax isn’t even here.
“Once the undead have passed, Ardax waits for a few days with the PCs and any surviving caravan members.” I very nearly did a double take. Ardax was here? He’s in Ugir when did he arrive?
“About a week later, Ardax receives word from Urgir that there is a clear route back.” Ok. Alright. So Ardax didn’t go to Ugir and was just laying low the entire time, and made it seem like he had left and didn’t tell us? What’s going on?
With 7 editors, it is a very simple case to make that the story was changed at some point and then these passages were never corrected to the new version. The creative director needed to sign off on these changes after a final read, and these were seen by a number of people, and approved. Put out the product with minimal effort. There was plenty of time and people to catch this.
Backmatter continues this theme: “Although Ardax doesn’t fully trust K’zaard even before his arrival in Chapter 3, he certainly knows quite a bit about the Cleft Head leader.”
When does Ardax arrive? It’s never stated. He’s last seen in chapter 2 before the Caravan subsystem. Cutting room floor I guess. He’s clearly not here.
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Are you capable of making a single post on this website that isn't openly and obviously insulting towards Paizo staff? Your constant contempt for the people working on these books makes me extremely hesitant to value anything you have to say about them, and this goes for basically every post you make. Seriously, tone down the vitriol.
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Are you capable of making a single post on this website that isn't openly and obviously insulting towards Paizo staff? Your constant contempt for the people working on these books makes me extremely hesitant to value anything you have to say about them, and this goes for basically every post you make. Seriously, tone down the vitriol.
What was an insult this time: The 9 hours of prep work for the module to find mistakes and form a supported opinion, or simply calling out the mistakes as we found them?
There is no vitriol here, just plain facts. If you don't like it, that's fine. I'll keep researching and finding the errors so other people can make informed decisions about where to spend their money. The fact your even responding means it's working.
Be happy then, I make very few posts. I make them count.
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Are you capable of making a single post on this website that isn't openly and obviously insulting towards Paizo staff? Your constant contempt for the people working on these books makes me extremely hesitant to value anything you have to say about them, and this goes for basically every post you make. Seriously, tone down the vitriol.What was an insult this time: The 9 hours of prep work for the module to find mistakes and form a supported opinion, or simply calling out the mistakes as we found them?
There is no vitriol here, just plain facts. If you don't like it, that's fine. I'll keep researching and finding the errors so other people can make informed decisions about where to spend their money. The fact your even responding means it's working.
Be happy then, I make very few posts. I make them count.
Some of the criticism is valid, others less so. I don’t understand the criticism re: the vampire and I even watched your entire vid. The character is a hypocrite but there’s nothing to suggest that as somehow bad writing or a betrayal of character. Quite common in fact to want something and not reciprocate.
The Oregon Trail part sounds pretty rad and I’m not annoyed that Ardax left as much as I am that the author forgot that he left. I’m also willing to wait and see if there’s any benefits for the influence gained in book 1 in books 2 and 3.
The inconsistency re: Ardax is a problem worth bringing up and I would expect editors to catch that as well as the item issues. Hoping they can correct the matter on the PDF and other digital products at the very least.
I think Bramble’s critiques are useful when it concerns ‘crunch’, but unless the narrative has gaping holes/editing issues, I find that his critiques of an AP’s overall story to be less relevant or reliable than his comments on the mechanics.
As more people get into Pathfinder from D&D we should expect more reviewers and budding influencers across the spectrum of production value- and as much as I find Bramble’s tone and comments sometimes pedantic and grating, I also don’t see anyone else doing accessible AP reviews on the Tube.
Bramble’s critics (which includes sometimes myself) are just as free to write their own AP reviews as Bramble is to write his own AP’s (and sell them). That’s what the ORC licence is for. I do think that Paizo, at the very least, should reconsider their editing process, because aside from a few slip ups, the adventure itself sounds pretty fun.
If a single editor tackling all of an AP’s content is impossible, then I would gently suggest divvying different editorial tasks to different persons. One for crunch, another for grammar, and one lastly for the broader narrative.
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The maps are very cool. Not a fan of the majority of NPCs, the pathfinder one seems particularly out of place. I don't like the Lastwall one. Exceptions are the vampire who is a delicious addition, and the berserker lady who wants to hulk smash but she's also a secret Ardax supporter.
Honestly, we needed a lot more backmatter to flesh out the politics of Orcs. I don't understand what's going on, what's happening with the rebels, it doesn't feel all that immersive to me. Can I request the backmatter be linked to the adventures again, instead of being about more deities or mini adventures or a region that the PCs won't even go to. This would make the books much more valuable in my opinion.
Book 2 is a lot better than book 1 imo. Huge fan of the One Eye hold, the Oathsworn orcs, and the last boss. Beautiful art for each of those 3.
I am disappointed there are no grave orcs mentioned.
The maps are very cool. Not a fan of the majority of NPCs, the pathfinder one seems particularly out of place. I don't like the Lastwall one. Exceptions are the vampire who is a delicious addition, and the berserker lady who wants to hulk smash but she's also a secret Ardax supporter.
Honestly, we needed a lot more backmatter to flesh out the politics of Orcs. I don't understand what's going on, what's happening with the rebels, it doesn't feel all that immersive to me. Can I request the backmatter be linked to the adventures again, instead of being about more deities or mini adventures or a region that the PCs won't even go to. This would make the books much more valuable in my opinion.
Book 2 is a lot better than book 1 imo. Huge fan of the One Eye hold, the Oathsworn orcs, and the last boss. Beautiful art for each of those 3.
I am disappointed there are no grave orcs mentioned.
Is the vampire fully statted as a vampire? From what I remember vampires are notoriously difficult to kill for low level players. (Not a critique, in fact I kinda hope he is statted as a full vampire)
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Honestly, we needed a lot more backmatter to flesh out the politics of Orcs. I don't understand what's going on, what's happening with the rebels, it doesn't feel all that immersive to me. Can I request the backmatter be linked to the adventures again, instead of being about more deities or mini adventures or a region that the PCs won't even go to. This would make the books much more valuable in my opinion.
It took a third party (shout out to MythKeeper on Youtube) to point out just how connected Belkzen could be for multiple trade routes and how their positioning is one of Ardax's primary motivations. It would have been GREAT to have a backmatter page on that. And not having any information on Ardax's personality at the very least was a little jarring, as GMs are expected to portray him to some extent in places.
I do think that if people go into this AP thinking that the orcs are this unilaterally one-dimensional tropes, they're going have a rough time w with an AP whose primary theme is subverting predictable tropes to be a little jarring. It reminds me of why I'm glad Paizo killed the alignment system and set the corpse on fire.
That Matrix glitch of an ending for Book 1 though... oof. Definitely didn't like that I had to get to Book 2's start to make sense of that.
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Is the vampire fully statted as a vampire? From what I remember vampires are notoriously difficult to kill for low level players. (Not a critique, in fact I kinda hope he is statted as a full vampire)
Yes, he's a vampire count from monster core.
It took a third party (shout out to MythKeeper on Youtube) to point out just how connected Belkzen could be for multiple trade routes and how their positioning is one of Ardax's primary motivations.
Yes, we need a lot more political context for these types of APs that present a region.
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The maps are very cool. Not a fan of the majority of NPCs, the pathfinder one seems particularly out of place. I don't like the Lastwall one. Exceptions are the vampire who is a delicious addition, and the berserker lady who wants to hulk smash but she's also a secret Ardax supporter.
Honestly, we needed a lot more backmatter to flesh out the politics of Orcs. I don't understand what's going on, what's happening with the rebels, it doesn't feel all that immersive to me. Can I request the backmatter be linked to the adventures again, instead of being about more deities or mini adventures or a region that the PCs won't even go to. This would make the books much more valuable in my opinion.
Book 2 is a lot better than book 1 imo. Huge fan of the One Eye hold, the Oathsworn orcs, and the last boss. Beautiful art for each of those 3.
I am disappointed there are no grave orcs mentioned.
Definitely agree with the Book 2 being better, and needing the backmatter beefed up a bit. I was hoping to see something more substantial from the contemporary orcs. Yes! That was the best art of orcs from what I saw so far. Grothlyn quickly grew on me, as I saw we can have the players take her on some events and even use her in the siege.
I didn't understand why we have several pages of divine mysteries inserted into book 3, but I'll touch on that when I get there.
Hopefully the grave orcs get a mention in next year's adventure path.
Mythkeeper explained a lot about Belkzen, let me get it for us:
"Also Runelord Sorshen is a really interesting character. She's the best chance Avistan has at defeating the other more evil Runelord Belimarius. She also was allied with the PCs in the final legs of the Runelords saga. Also, Sorshen is now is western neighbor so it would make sense to make some diplomatic overtures to her. In fact, if your players have not yet picked characters for this, you might softly encourage one of the players to make a character from Eurythnia's capital of Xin Shalast. You could find some ways of tieing this all into Ardax's broader schemes. Gonna keep plugging my stuff, but more details on Sorshen can be found in Varisia & New Thassilon P2 video"
"When you take a minute to think about, Belkzen is wildly well situated geopolitically.
1.) The only gap in the northern mountains is the gap between the Kodar Mountains and the Tusk Mountains.
If Irrisen, or the Mammoth Lords, or the city of Icestair want to trade with anyone south of the Kodars, they have to go through Belkzen or all the way west to the Linnorm Kingdoms and out to sea.
2.) The only gap in the Mindspin Mountains is the Urglin Gap (though a smaller pass also exists in the Bloodsworn Vale admittedly).
If Eurythnia or the Varisian cities want to trade with anyone to the east, like Ustalav or the River Kingdoms, they have to go through Belkzen.
3.) The only gap in the tusk mountains is ALSO through Belkzen.
If Ustalav wants to trade westwards (especially now that Lastwall = Gravelands) they have to go through Belkzen."
"Last thought on this is how significant the loss of Lastwall is. Even nations that have a long history of conflicts with the orcs (like Ustalav) kind of have to figure out how they're going to make nice with them. Having a kingdom of the undead on their border is doubly dangerous if they're also worried about orcs coming through the Gap of Valballus / the Bleakwall. Its a brave new world. Should be a fun AP."
Thank you Mythkeeper!
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Myth keeper is becoming one of my favourite YouTube channels
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Just read the whole adventure as I'm getting ready to run it. Definitely needs some work, and some of the adventure feels rushed to print. Maps weren't well planned. Interesting that the River Crossing map, which features one enemy, is enormous while Splitskull Keep has small rooms with multiple and large-sized enemies. I'll probably move encounters in Splitskull. The wyvern fight would probably work really well in the keep courtyard. Area I1 in Splitskull Catacombs mentions a circular staircase in the description that goes nowhere. Original map doesn't have it (making it easy to ignore in the description), but unfortunately the Foundry version put the staircase to nowhere in. I may have to make some tiles to cover it up. It's annoying when Paizo makes exits to maps that don't go anywhere with a "this is beyond the scope of the adventure" statement. This one doesn't even do that for the staircase.
Overall, narrative issues (such as those mentioned by the OP) can easily be fixed by the GM. I'll have to think through whether or not to keep Ardax with the group or send him on to Urgir. In general, I'm going to add lots of Ardax background info on my own, and I'm using better artwork. The adventure's pic of him is pathetic. One other important change I'm making is adding K'zaard and even the Book 3 main villain to the Torrentmoot. They'll both bolt before the Flee section. There's nothing more important than giving the PCs exposure to villains beforehand in order to heighten the drama and increase character motivation.
It's a good adventure. Just needs a little more work from the GM to fix things.
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I feel like the Splitskull Catacombs map needs some help to make sense with the Catacombs text. This is what we did to make it work.
In I1. Catacombs Foyer, the description of "A circular stone stairway stands in an alcove to the north..." connects to the stone, spiral stairway that winds vertically up to G5 and H1. This is what Inax and Azdroni guard. Otherwise, this is a stairway to nowhere.
A GM will have draw or otherwise account for, "... a ruined, stoneclogged doorway ..." in the foyer's east wall: it's not on the map in the adventure (I have the pdf and hard copy).
The "... stone door to the west ..." is the barrier between the outside world and the foyer. We assumed that hundreds of yards to the west of Splitskull Keep, PCs could identify, learn from the orcs of Ossogard, or otherwise discern that a passage yawned below the ground. Thus, giving the PCs a spot where they could dig into tunnel to the foyer.
Regarding I2. Burial Vault: the corridor that breaches its southern wall leads to and from, at an angle, "... the sinkhole (X inside front cover) ..." There is no way for that passage to lead to the War Room (G3).
Unless we are the dummies, which is very possible, this Catacombs and its map made little sense.