Does Major Image end in a non-combat situation if people know its an illusion?

[Senko]

I want to use major image (below) as an education/entertainment tool e.g. creating the illusion of a map of the land so you can show people "Here is the capital, we are here, the fastest way there is over the white sky peaks . . ." with the map changing and highlighting things as you concentrate on it. Also for entertainment e.g. an illusory backdrop where people know its fake and part of the show but its not there to trick them into say thinking an open path is a sealed wall. The issue is the last part of the spell where it say's if you don't have it react appropriately to being struck it ends. Which to me reads as if the viewer gets obvious proof the image is fake the spell ends whether you want it too or not. Could I use it in the way I want without it ending as soon as I start because everyone know's its an illusory map/cityscape/etc?

Major Image
Source PRPG Core Rulebook pg. 311
School illusion (figment); Level arcanist 3, bard 3, magus 3, medium 3, mesmerist 3, occultist 3, psychic 3, redmantisassassin 3, skald 3, sorcerer 3, wizard 3
Casting
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, F (a bit of fleece)
Effect
Range long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Effect visual figment that cannot extend beyond four 10-ft. cubes + one 10-ft. cube/level (S)
Duration concentration + 3 rounds
Saving Throw Will disbelief (if interacted with); Spell Resistance no
Description
This spell functions like silent image, except that sound, smell, and thermal illusions are included in the spell effect. While concentrating, you can move the image within the range.

The image disappears when struck by an opponent unless you cause the illusion to react appropriately.

[happykj]

It disappear when struck by someone. Even everybody know it is unreal but this won't cause it suddenly disappear.

The spell is under Figment subschool.

[Pizza Lord]

'Struck' or 'hit' is not used in the same context as 'touch' or 'interact' with. Ignoring that it says 'opponent' and just assuming anyone who's trying to disrupt, damage, injure, or destroy what the illusion portrays.

If you make a major image of a solid wall where an archway is (which is what you're saying you aren't doing, but this is an example).
An enemy could walk up to it.
1. They can disbelieve it, which makes it still visible to them, but as a faint outline and allowing them to see through it effectively (unless it says otherwise, like illusory wall). It is still effective and there for any other creatures.

2. They can guess or hope or assume (or just believe they have the power to walk through walls) and step through it. Anyone seeing that, likely will have good reason to call for a disbelieve attempt on their turn if they wish. The person stepping will likely automatically disbelieve it and know it's an illusion (unless their stated reason was that they thought they could walk through walls, unless that feels different). They can then communicate that and grant +4 bonuses to anyone trying to disbelieve it.

3. They can believe it, but think maybe it's a wall of stone or a secret/concealed door and they can touch or push against it, perhaps checking for secret doors or levers, and they will feel no substance and get a save (or can try and step through and save automatically as above). This won't count as striking the illusion in the context of the spell.

4. They think it's really a stone wall or door and they strike it to batter it down (I would likely also consider them charging into it with the intent to burst a wall or door open) then they pass through it, automatically disbelieve it (which is moot, since that makes the image disappear for everyone including them).

5. They know it's a major image and they know how to disrupt it, so they hit it with the intent to do so for everyone else's benefit or just out of spite, which makes it disappear for everyone.

If you're making a map appear in the air, someone touching or walking through it or pointing or poking a stick at it (as an indicator of a location) probably won't make it end. If they throw a stick or rock or something in a disruptive or damaging manner, then it would.

Caveat/Exception: Unless you make it react appropriately. If it looks like a paper map, and you have a hole appear in it (even if you immediately have that hole repair itself), then it wouldn't. Observers would likely get saves, but even if they save, they can still see the map, probably less detailed than those that don't see it as a faint outline. If your illusion is a hologram or ghostly map or effect, like a movie-theater projector or other light effect, it probably doesn't have to react much; get distorted or flicker momentarily, etc. Basically as long as you're still concentrating and want to make it react appropriately it won't just end, even if it's obviously an illusion and known to everyone and they've all disbelieved it. They can still see what you're showing them (as a faint outline normally). If it happened during the 3 rounds after you stopped concentrating and couldn't control it or make it react, then it's gone if struck.

[AwesomenessDog]

Another consideration is "what even is magic that is obviously an illusion?" Creating a map from virtually nothing can be done by an illusion spell (doesn't even need to be major, can be a silent image), or it can be from a minor creation + fabricate spells cast together. There's very few things with illusions that I would say automatically force a save for just being "wrong", as opposed to say how sound inherently forces interaction itself.

Another consideration is that whether or not you can "idiot proof" an illusion (i.e. can someone who really likes ramming their heads into walls "automatically save" or fail the save and still go through an illusion of a wall, or smash their hand through an illusory table) is not strictly based on a RAW. Nothing says you can or can't pass through an illusory wall without passing the save. You can interpret the intent to be that unless you pass the save for interacting by trying to pass, you simply will react as if you just headbutted stone, or your hand simply pulled back from slamming hard enough to potentially break a finger.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Since this is the rules forum I will stick with RAW.

The spell only disappears if you do not have it react appropriately. Since you can change the illusion there is nothing preventing you from causing it to react. If you can have the illusionary skeleton to appear to take damage or otherwise react appropriately why is the map any different? Which brings up the point of what is an appropriate reaction? If you had the map react as if it were a real object when touched that should prevent it from disappearing.

The second point is that the description specifies it is struck by an opponent. RAW is the person touching the illusion an opponent or ally? This point is getting a little bit on the ridiculous side, but RAW the description does specify an opponent.

The last thing I would bring up is that a character can voluntarily fail their save and choose to be affected by the spell. As a GM is would not have a problem with using an illusion for what you want it to. To be honest all you really need is silent image. Using Major image is complete overkill. But I guess you could make the snow on the mountains actually feel cold and the swamp stink.

[Senko]

To the several people who said silent image would work as well, yes your quite right for what I want it would and its what I'd probably use (unless a GM insisted its a static image not one you can change by concentrating). I used major because it has the line about being struck and reacting appropriately which is what I was mainly curious about. Neither silent nor minor image have that sentence it only gets added with major image so a minor image if struck doesn't end even if it doesn't react appropriately (though anyone watching would probably realize it wasn't real) but major image does.

[AwesomenessDog]

Senko wrote:

To the several people who said silent image would work as well, yes your quite right for what I want it would and its what I'd probably use (unless a GM insisted its a static image not one you can change by concentrating). I used major because it has the line about being struck and reacting appropriately which is what I was mainly curious about. Neither silent nor minor image have that sentence it only gets added with major image so a minor image if struck doesn't end even if it doesn't react appropriately (though anyone watching would probably realize it wasn't real) but major image does.

Whether or not you can have a silent image react would depend on how you interpret "You can move the image within the limits of the size of the effect." Does that mean its a static image like a tree, or even if it was of a creature, that its more akin to a life-like statue, you can glide it along from point A to B but not make it walk there?

I think that's a bit overly restrictive, especially since the much more obvious benefit of the higher level image spells is their extra layers of senses that they affect.

Actually another example of an image "being attacked" but not breaking is the opening to Crimson Throne, where a major image of bread and wine can be eaten (bite attack!) by the PCs and in doing so, they only get a save to notice its fake.

I guess one final point is that if you're using this map, no matter what image spell you're using, and even if you are an illusionist wizard, you have to be concentrating to sustain the image long enough to do your battle strategizing on it anyway.

[happykj]

a discussion about that sentence

Not something official, but i guess you can check this out.