This question came up in a different thread, but since it's off-topic there, I'm posting it here.
Wait-a-minute. Don't the blood magic effects need to target an ally or yourself? How do you [as a fey bloodline sorcerer] effect two allies [with blood magic] unless you're charming them or dusting them?As someone playing a fey blooded sorcerer this weekend who was not aware of the potency of this power, THANK YOU for pointing it out!A fey blooded sorcerer can in one turn use fairy dust then charm triggering their bloodline effect twice.
Resulting in two concealed allys one foe that cant attack the caster from charm. Leaving the tankiest character as the only target left the enemies can go after without any hindrance.
In the right hands charm can work in battle.When you meet the requirements for the fey blood magic effect you do what the blood magic effect says to, “choose yourself or one target, causing them to be concealed for 1 round.” That targeting has nothing to do with the target you chose for the spell that triggered the blood magic effect.
You do make the choice before resolving the spell that allowed you the blood magic effect and you do resolve the blood magic effect after the spell resolves. If you wanted to target the same target as the charm spell that effect would not happen unless the charm succeeded.
But nothing says the target of the fey blood magic effect has to be the target of the charm or fey dust spells.
If that's the case, then what is the range of the blood magic effect?
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Whenever you cast a bloodline spell using Focus Points or a granted spell from your bloodline using a spell slot, you gain a blood magic effect. If the blood magic offers a choice, make it before resolving the spell. The blood magic effect occurs after resolving any checks for the spell's initial effects and, against a foe, applies only if the spell is a successful attack or the foe fails its saving throw. If the spell has an area, you must designate yourself or one target in the area when you cast the spell to be the target of the blood magic effect. All references to spell level refer to the level of the spell you cast.
This isn't entirely clear on who the valid targets of the blood magic effect are.
The way that I read this, the target of the blood magic effect can always be the Sorcerer that cast the spell. You can also cause the target to be someone who was affected by the spell - either an ally, or an enemy that failed the save or you succeeded at the attack roll against.
I don't see any way of taking this rules text to mean that you can apply blood magic effects to an unaffected ally or to an unaffected enemy.
Whenever you cast a bloodline spell using Focus Points or a granted spell from your bloodline using a spell slot, you gain a blood magic effect. If the blood magic offers a choice, make it before resolving the spell. The blood magic effect occurs after resolving any checks for the spell's initial effects and, against a foe, applies only if the spell is a successful attack or the foe fails its saving throw. If the spell has an area, you must designate yourself or one target in the area when you cast the spell to be the target of the blood magic effect. All references to spell level refer to the level of the spell you cast.This isn't entirely clear on who the valid targets of the blood magic effect are.
The way that I read this, the target of the blood magic effect can always be the Sorcerer that cast the spell. You can also cause the target to be someone who was affected by the spell - either an ally, or an enemy that failed the save or you succeeded at the attack roll against.
I don't see any way of taking this rules text to mean that you can apply blood magic effects to an unaffected ally or to an unaffected enemy.
The fey blood effect offers the choice of you or one target. It doesn't say that choice is limited to targets affected by the spell. But if you chose a foe as the target then it has the limitation of only working if the spell doesn't fail. That limitation comes from the text you quoted.
It isn't clear about range for can be targeted like you said. Line of sight makes sense for it though.
Whenever you cast a bloodline spell using Focus Points or a granted spell from your bloodline using a spell slot, you gain a blood magic effect. If the blood magic offers a choice, make it before resolving the spell. The blood magic effect occurs after resolving any checks for the spell's initial effects and, against a foe, applies only if the spell is a successful attack or the foe fails its saving throw. If the spell has an area, you must designate yourself or one target in the area when you cast the spell to be the target of the blood magic effect. All references to spell level refer to the level of the spell you cast.This isn't entirely clear on who the valid targets of the blood magic effect are.
The way that I read this, the target of the blood magic effect can always be the Sorcerer that cast the spell. You can also cause the target to be someone who was affected by the spell - either an ally, or an enemy that failed the save or you succeeded at the attack roll against.
I don't see any way of taking this rules text to mean that you can apply blood magic effects to an unaffected ally or to an unaffected enemy.
Reading the other bloodline effects that are offensive they have slightly different language than the fey effect. It is more clear that those ones only effect the target of the spell with the offensive option or benefit you with the other option.
Whenever you cast a bloodline spell using Focus Points or a granted spell from your bloodline using a spell slot, you gain a blood magic effect. If the blood magic offers a choice, make it before resolving the spell. The blood magic effect occurs after resolving any checks for the spell's initial effects and, against a foe, applies only if the spell is a successful attack or the foe fails its saving throw. If the spell has an area, you must designate yourself or one target in the area when you cast the spell to be the target of the blood magic effect. All references to spell level refer to the level of the spell you cast.This isn't entirely clear on who the valid targets of the blood magic effect are.
The way that I read this, the target of the blood magic effect can always be the Sorcerer that cast the spell. You can also cause the target to be someone who was affected by the spell - either an ally, or an enemy that failed the save or you succeeded at the attack roll against.
I don't see any way of taking this rules text to mean that you can apply blood magic effects to an unaffected ally or to an unaffected enemy.
The fey blood effect offers the choice of you or one target. It doesn't say that choice is limited to targets affected by the spell. But if you chose a foe as the target then it has the limitation of only working if the spell doesn't fail. That limitation comes from the text you quoted.
It isn't clear about range for can be targeted like you said. Line of sight makes sense for it though.
Also the spells being used are not aoe as they are being used in the example. There technically is no language restricting spells with a single target.
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I read Blood Magic as adding an effect to the spell. So, "target" means a target of the spell. And the RAW details what the target can be for spells that do not specify a target, such as AoE.
If Blood Magic was an ability separate from the spell, it would specify what its target is.
Also, the Too Good To Be True rule.
I read Blood Magic as adding an effect to the spell. So, "target" means a target of the spell. And the RAW details what the target can be for spells that do not specify a target, such as AoE.
If Blood Magic was an ability separate from the spell, it would specify what its target is.
Also, the Too Good To Be True rule.
I see what you mean and I would treat it that way if this was an offensive ability. What happens when you apply that thinking to it the choice given by choose yourself or one target becomes choose yourself or give your foe concealment when using the spells that triggered it. Or it means that you cast a spell that harms your ally in some way or does nothing to them and wastes a spell slot to give them concealment. This ability is supposed to provide an additional benefit when you cast a qualifying spell and the ability provides a choice. The choice becomes pick yourself or help your foe. lower your allys will and perception to conceal youreself or them. You see how the effect stops being a bonus and becomes the reason to cast the spell. Concept is lost making the blood effect the primary benefit and the cost using a spell.
That doesnt fit into the concept of casting the spell and gaining an additional benefit when you do it. There needs to be the normal benefit of casting the spell and the blood effect needs to provide additional benefit or the concept is not working right.The exact wording technically leaves it open to work as I mentioned.
You can rule it the way you mentioned as most of the other blood line effects work well that way and have additional text that supports only working on the spells targets, but to do it for the fey bloodline effect just makes the concealment really just for the caster and the choice the ability offers becomes an illusion.
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I see what you mean. Having the target of your Charm or Suggestion being concealed might be nice though.
Making any of your ally concealed as a free effect whenever you cast your blood spells sounds completely Too Good To Be True and there is nothing in the RAW that explicitly allows this.
I would not allow it at my table.
This ability is supposed to provide an additional benefit when you cast a qualifying spell and the ability provides a choice. The choice becomes pick yourself or help your foe. lower your allys will and perception to conceal youreself or them. You see how the effect stops being a bonus and becomes the reason to cast the spell. Concept is lost making the blood effect the primary benefit and the cost using a spell.
That doesnt fit into the concept of casting the spell and gaining an additional benefit when you do it.
Not all bloodline focus spells or bloodline granted spells are harmful/offensive. You might have a buff spell that you can target an ally with that allows you to bestow an additional blood magic benefit.
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Let's look at the flip side instead. The Demonic Bloodline says "Either a target takes a –1 status penalty to AC for 1 round, or you gain a +1 status bonus to Intimidation checks for 1 round." If one were allowed to target anyone with their blood magic effect, then could I cast Enlarge on an ally, and then make an enemy take a -1 penalty to AC? Of course not, that makes no sense and is indeed too good to be true. If it's true for allies, it would be true for enemies, since all it says is "one target" and not "one ally/enemy".
You all are right on with the intent of that use of target. Its even made clearer when you read the Phoenix bloodline. That bloodline finally uses the wording that they always meant to use.
I hope they rethink these bloodline effects in the remaster version of the sorcerer. What i would really like to see is the skill buffs lasting longer perhaps until you use a skill action that benefits from it. So a bloodline with disguise self can use that benefit outside combat where it will work with the kinds of situations where you would want to disguise self.
Until they do something it just says target without saying of the spell. This breaks breaks down game logic like doing something unintended in a pc game and getting some glitchy play where that play is not supported in the code. Its clearly that way with your -1 ac example. Theres nothing asking you to make a check at that point.
The demonic bloodline has some issues. The demonic effect when casting your first given spell just doesn't help at all. Your casting fear another status negative to ac doesn't help, a better chance at demoralize for the round at least will help if you do it to a different target. So again theres no real choice and your next action is going to be demoralize or its the same as not having gained an effect at all.
Fey blooded rank two spell is obviously worse played with target of the spell. You go invisible often to hide, the bloodline effect is worse than redundant it actually makes you lose the ability to hide since it makes your position obvious.
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Fey blooded rank two spell is obviously worse played with target of the spell. You go invisible often to hide, the bloodline effect is worse than redundant it actually makes you lose the ability to hide since it makes your position obvious.
Have you tried creating a Shadow bloodline Sorcerer yet? What is the earliest level you can come up with to even be able to cast Dim the Light.
And then, once you can successfully cast Dim the Light, why would you use it instead of just using Hide and Sneak directly?
I'm also hoping that Sorcerer gets some love and care in the Remaster.
Fey blooded rank two spell is obviously worse played with target of the spell. You go invisible often to hide, the bloodline effect is worse than redundant it actually makes you lose the ability to hide since it makes your position obvious.Have you tried creating a Shadow bloodline Sorcerer yet? What is the earliest level you can come up with to even be able to cast Dim the Light.
And then, once you can successfully cast Dim the Light, why would you use it instead of just using Hide and Sneak directly?
I'm also hoping that Sorcerer gets some love and care in the Remaster.
I am hoping they just redo the bloodline effects.
First look at the spell list and focus abilities they want for the bloodline then design the effects to work with the short list of spells that trigger it.They should rework anoint ally to instead of forgoing your benefit, it should additionally provide the benefit to an ally you marked.
Fey blooded rank two spell is obviously worse played with target of the spell. You go invisible often to hide, the bloodline effect is worse than redundant it actually makes you lose the ability to hide since it makes your position obvious.Have you tried creating a Shadow bloodline Sorcerer yet? What is the earliest level you can come up with to even be able to cast Dim the Light.
And then, once you can successfully cast Dim the Light, why would you use it instead of just using Hide and Sneak directly?
I'm also hoping that Sorcerer gets some love and care in the Remaster.
No I've never played that one. Looks like when you get darkness. I guess you would want the dim the lights for the foes with darkvision. And then you may just be hurting your party by casting darkness while you hide.
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Until they do something it just says target without saying of the spell. This breaks breaks down game logic like doing something unintended in a pc game and getting some glitchy play where that play is not supported in the code.It's a good thing the game should be played under control of a real human which judges such cases :)
Lol yes. Im not one of those but if I was I would adjudicate the rules in favor of making the player feel like they have useful abilities.
Also i wouldn't say glamor conceal on an ally is too good to be true as class effect when casting a limited selection of spells.
Its good but not broken. Its probably the level of power all of the bloodlines should mark to.
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Until they do something it just says target without saying of the spell. This breaks breaks down game logic like doing something unintended in a pc game and getting some glitchy play where that play is not supported in the code.It's a good thing the game should be played under control of a real human which judges such cases :)Lol yes. Im not one of those but if I was I would adjudicate the rules in favor of making the player feel like they have useful abilities.
Also i wouldn't say glamor conceal on an ally is too good to be true as class effect when casting a limited selection of spells.
Its good but not broken. Its probably the level of power all of the bloodlines should mark to.
We'll see in Remastered how Paizo feels about this, I guess.
We'll see in Remastered how Paizo feels about this, I guess.[
Until they do something it just says target without saying of the spell. This breaks breaks down game logic like doing something unintended in a pc game and getting some glitchy play where that play is not supported in the code.It's a good thing the game should be played under control of a real human which judges such cases :)Lol yes. Im not one of those but if I was I would adjudicate the rules in favor of making the player feel like they have useful abilities.
Also i wouldn't say glamor conceal on an ally is too good to be true as class effect when casting a limited selection of spells.
Its good but not broken. Its probably the level of power all of the bloodlines should mark to.
I am guessing since spells have had adjustments that alone would be reason enough to relook at bloodline effects.
Im looking forward to player core 2. That books going to have most of the classes i like anyway.