Hi Guys,
Is it me or the ScatterGun looks way under-tuned?
Laser Pistol Hits with 1d6 while the Scattergun is held with both hands and has fewer bullets and hits with the same dice.
You can hit multiple opponents with the shot but costs 2 actions, while the pistol can shoot 3 times (multiple atk penalties do apply).
Area atk, even though it might look fun I have some concerns:
- If you are trying to hit enemies with High Reflex saves it will be hard.
- If the area DC is set by your classe DC not by your proficiency with Ranged weapons, that means that for one character you can use Constitution Modifier for atk, and for another, you would use Charisma... this does not feel right.
Hi Guys,
Is it me or the ScatterGun looks way under-tuned?
Laser Pistol Hits with 1d6 while the Scattergun is held with both hands and has fewer bullets and hits with the same dice.
I think it's just you. Area weapons should generally be two handed, and I'd go so far as to say they should always be two-handed at simple. Otherwise, you fire off an area attack, and then shoot with a pistol in the other hand with no penalty. Mixing area and targeted shots seems to be the point of the rotolaser, although automatic means that it's still not a trick that you can do more than once on a single clip.
You can hit multiple opponents with the shot but costs 2 actions, while the pistol can shoot 3 times (multiple atk penalties do apply).
The pistol takes three actions to shoot three times, and firing off three shots means you're actually going to have to reload during the fight. That third shot is at -10. Also, if you're firing off three shots a round, you are actually going to run out of ammo faster than the Scattergun.
Area atk, even though it might look fun I have some concerns:
- If you are trying to hit enemies with High Reflex saves it will be hard.
... As opposed to trying to hit enemies with high AC not being hard? There's an important difference, though. If you're trying to hit enemies with high reflex, you're probably going to do half damage, but if you're trying to hit enemies with high AC, you're probably going to do no damage.
- If the area DC is set by your classe DC not by your proficiency with Ranged weapons, that means that for one character you can use Constitution Modifier for atk, and for another, you would use Charisma... this does not feel right.
At least to me, this actually does feel right. The Envoy, rushing in and shouting a distraction before unloading a blast of shrapnel. The Soldier, advancing implacably while firing off cones of destruction. The Mechanic, loading up shrapnel rounds selected specifically for the kind of armor the enemies have. The caster, backed into a corner and dumping their raw magic into giving their scattershot more penetrating power. This is not a weapon for careful aim; anyone can point it in the right general direction.
Don't forget that scatterguns do half damage on a succesful save (that's what a basic save means, for those unfamiliar with PF2), lasers do no damage on a miss.
Scatterguns also get the tracking boost to their class DC, which is not a normal aspect of PF2 play, where neither class nor spellcasting DCs can be boosted by items as far as I know. So reflex saves will be a bit harder than yoru PF2 intuitions might suggest.
Hi Guys,
Is it me or the ScatterGun looks way under-tuned?
Laser Pistol Hits with 1d6 while the Scattergun is held with both hands and has fewer bullets and hits with the same dice.
I think it's just you. Area weapons should generally be two handed, and I'd go so far as to say they should always be two-handed at simple. Otherwise, you fire off an area attack, and then shoot with a pistol in the other hand with no penalty. Mixing area and targeted shots seems to be the point of the rotolaser, although automatic means that it's still not a trick that you can do more than once on a single clip.
You can hit multiple opponents with the shot but costs 2 actions, while the pistol can shoot 3 times (multiple atk penalties do apply).The pistol takes three actions to shoot three times, and firing off three shots means you're actually going to have to reload during the fight. That third shot is at -10. Also, if you're firing off three shots a round, you are actually going to run out of ammo faster than the Scattergun.
Area atk, even though it might look fun I have some concerns:
- If you are trying to hit enemies with High Reflex saves it will be hard.... As opposed to trying to hit enemies with high AC not being hard? There's an important difference, though. If you're trying to hit enemies with high reflex, you're probably going to do half damage, but if you're trying to hit enemies with high AC, you're probably going to do no damage.
- If the area DC is set by your classe DC not by your proficiency with Ranged weapons, that means that for one character you can use Constitution Modifier for atk, and for another, you would use Charisma... this does not feel right.At least to me, this actually does feel right. The Envoy, rushing in and shouting a distraction before unloading a blast of shrapnel. The Soldier, advancing implacably while firing off cones of destruction. The Mechanic, loading up shrapnel...
When I told it was 2 hand it was comparing to a one hand option. Sure for a Rotolaser you can use a single ranged atk but this would require dex for shooting while the Area would require your classes attribute. A Laser sword would probably do a D8 and also adds your strength to it, also being one-handed. Shotguns should pack a punch and a D6 does not feel like a punch to me. Also, the Range is 15, which means almost melee.
The Technological aspect is supposed to be equivalent to magic but it feels a lot weaker, due to limited aspect (reload, buy ammunition and etc) I think it should be a little worse than focus spells but better than cantrips.
Regarding to 3 atks yes you have to spend actions for it and you probably would miss on your third, meaning you would be better of doing something else but that's still an option for you.
It's indeed a simple ranged weapon and they probably will do a d8 or d10 version of cone weapon.
What I meant when using class proficiency for Area atks is strange, correct me if I'm wrong, but caster classes have a DC equal to their spell casting, therefore, if a Wizzard uses a scattergun at high levels it could be used as Legendary, better than a Fighter (master) this to me sounds not that great for martial classes (Since they don't have magic).
In my starfinder experience I never seen anyone in my table to use scattergun. Because the range is short, damage is low, it has a area of effect but you not always have enemies packed together.
Don't forget that scatterguns do half damage on a succesful save (that's what a basic save means, for those unfamiliar with PF2), lasers do no damage on a miss.
Scatterguns also get the tracking boost to their class DC, which is not a normal aspect of PF2 play, where neither class nor spellcasting DCs can be boosted by items as far as I know. So reflex saves will be a bit harder than yoru PF2 intuitions might suggest.
Yeah, I forgot about that half-damage part. But still d6 seems a bit low for a shotgun, but then I realized (after reading a comment) this is a simple weapon, and also has 1bulk so it's light. A heavier version for cone should have better dice.
"This weapon has been developed with several
integrated targeting, stabilizing, and homing systems. Attack rolls
with this weapon gain an item bonus equal to the listed value."
I don't think Tracking will work for this purpose, but it should work when a Soldier decides to go against enemy AC instead Ref. The text says Attack rolls and not mentions anything about DC.
As established in other threads, area weapons do not rely on weapon proficiency at all, meaning any class can pick up an area weapon and rely entirely on their class DC to determine their accuracy. This means that even though the scattergun is a simple weapon and the stellar cannon is a martial weapon, the distinction is meaningless because anyone can choose from either and do equally well with their AoE attack. This effectively means the scattergun's power can be compared directly to that of the stellar cannon, because classes have the same access to them.
Here's what the two have in common:
* Both weapons and their improved versions have the exact same price.
* Both weapons have the same combination of traits: analog, area, and unwieldy. This means that even though their area is different, they otherwise function in much the same way.
* Both weapons require two hands to wield.
* Both weapons have the exact same capacity-to-usage ratio, and the same reload value.
* Both weapons deal the same damage type.
So effectively, the weapons are quite similar in how they work. Here's what the scattergun has that's better than the stellar cannon:
* The cone area means a scattergun won't incur self-damage, unlike the stellar cannon's burst.
* The cone can very situationally hit more targets than the 10-foot burst if fired diagonally.
* The weapon weighs 1 Bulk less.
And that's about it. Here's what the stellar cannon has over the scattergun:
* The damage die is two steps higher.
* The weapon has significantly greater range.
* The 10-foot burst affects a much larger area than the cone and is therefore almost always guaranteed to hit more targets.
Based on this, it looks like the scattergun is straight-up weaker than the stellar cannon. Because the current implementation of area weapons means every class has the exact same access to these two weapons, there are only few reasons for the average character to pick the scattergun over the stellar cannon.