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I must be the most confused GM ever in Pathfinder 2e.
I ran a game this weekend for a table of three - all 3rd level. The scenario was set for 1-4 level. This created a Challenge Point rating of 12 (3x4CP), which meant that we add one level 1 pregen and came out to 14 CP.
Base
Level PCs CP Pregens CP adj.
1 2 <8 2 lvl 1 pregens +4
2 8+ 2 lvl 3 pregens +8
3 <12 1 lvl 1 pregen +2
3 12+ 1 lvl 3 pregen +4
As a group of 3 lvl 3's & lvl 1 pregen I ran within the 3-4 level range with no modifications. Did I do this right as the OPGuide seems contradictory to me?
Sorry -- I have been searching the vast forum and cannot find my answer. I read the Guide which confuses me;
2. Determine the Level Range
Parties with challenge points of 15 or less always play in the lower level range. Parties with 19 or more always play in the higher level range.
(They have 14 CP, but they were at level 3)Parties with 16-18 play in the higher level range only if they have 4 or fewer PCs. If they have 5 or more PCs, they play in the lower level range. This allows small parties of high level adventurers to play in the higher level range, while large parties of low level adventurers play in the lower level range.
(So less then 4 players in the higher range, yet the CP was 14, which means they play in the higher range? Or the lower range with 14CP adjustments???)...
3. Adjusting the Adventure
Once you’ve determined the level range and Challenge Point total (this seems to contradict each other), apply the proper modifications to the adventure to provide a fair challenge.Level Range: Nearly all encounters list two different sets of creature statistics, one for each of the two level ranges the adventure is designed for. ...
Scaling: Within a level range, the scenario will also contain instructions for adjusting the difficulty of the scenario based on the PC’s Challenge Points.
The scenario kicked their a$$ - A PC's mount died and the whole party faced a TPK in the second encounter listed as "moderate". Only the pregen cleric did not go down and saved everyone with healing every round.
Afterward, I was told that I should have adjusted the encounter for the lowest CP in the level range chosen, which would have been 19CPs (the party was only at 14CP recall). CP 19 added at least one more or removed one monster adding in two that made the encounter stronger.
Did I run this wrong? If so, how? Do I just run by CPs and ignore level ranges? At which point do you run unscaled encounters?
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You did indeed run this wrong. You let there levels dictate what difficulty tier you ran them in which has no basis on how to choose. Your calculations (for the players - see below) were correct and you should have followed the organized play guide.
At 14 CP (as you calculated with the pregen) you run at low tier (level 1-2) WITH modifications listed for each encounter. As the guide states, always run low tier if 15CP or below. Don’t worry, the adjustments will make it harder.
NOTE: however, your original calculation on the pregen to use is off. The table says LESS THAN 12 CP use a level 1 pregen and for 12 or more use the level 3 pregen which adds +4CP. This would bump them up to 16CP. With 4 characters at 16CP you WOULD run at the higher tier (level 3-4) with NO adjustments to the encounters listed.
So in the end, the only change should have been running with the higher level pregen cleric…. Which probably would have helped.
Venture-Agent, Ohio—Columbus
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Seconding everything ninthwatcher said. To say it more generally, the character's levels are only used to calculate the challenge points. Once you have the challenge point total you then go entirely off the Determine the Level Range section in the Org Play Guide. This would mean, for instance, that a party of 5 level 2s and a level 3 would play in the 3-4 subtier, despite being nearly all level 1-2.
Which scenario was it? Some can be deadlier than others.
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Which scenario was it? Some can be deadlier than others.
Pathfinder Society Scenario #3-10: Delve the Pallid Depths
So I follow - and I'm not trying to fight on this, but understand - I should always go off the Challenge Points instead of the levels?
5 level 2s would be... 5x3 = 15, plus a level 3 = 19CP if I got that right. 19 is the lowest on the 3-4 level range so I would run the high tier.
I am following right? Thank you for the help
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Your assessment is correct. It's very confusing for new GMs and hard to find in the guide, so don't feel bad.
A while back I built sign-in sheet tool that automates chp, pregens, and bundles for all levels. It also has an earn income calculator included.
Of course, RPG Chronicles can help you with this as well.
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Seems a bit silly that it cannot be Appendix A - a list of all the encounters by CPs;
Appendix B - stat block of all the monsters to reference in building encounter;
Appendix C - Handouts;
Appendix D - Rewards
Seems simpler to just run encounters according to a list of CPs and look up the enemies in Appendix B. Just my two cents.
Thank you!
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Venture-Agent, Ohio—Columbus
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It's not an easy thing to design an adventure that is appropriate for 4 level 1 PCs through 6 level 4 PCs. While there may be multiple ways of organizing the changes needed across that disparate range, dividing it into 2 basic sub-tiers as a start seems reasonable, with adjustments from those 2 base lines for more powerful parties.
I can tell you that in practice it works very well.
Also, remember that for parties of 16-18 challenge points, the number of PCs makes a difference. Parties of 5 or more will play the low subtier (with the most adjustments), while 4 PCs will play the higher subtier (with no adjustments). This is because the higher level enemies appropriate for the higher subtier may be very difficult for lower level PCs, even if there are more of them.